Transferring to a new computer. Will this work?

[Paul Johnson]

PATA is indeed "near death", at least with the current crop of middle to
upper-end motherboards. No doubt the final nail in the coffin will be when
virtually all optical drives will discard the PATA interface in favor of
the SATA one.

I'm not convinced PATA is dead. I've yet to see an optical drive or
external USB or IEEE1394 enclosure that has a SATA connection, for
starters...

 

[Anna]

I'm not convinced PATA is dead. I've yet to see an optical drive or
external USB or IEEE1394 enclosure that has a SATA connection, for
starters...

Paul:
Well, I did say "near death". Admittedly it was a somewhat facetious remark
but PATA's days *are* numbered. Note the plethora of recent motherboards
being produced with only a single IDE connector and virtually every board is
now SATA-capable. But it is true that the IDE interface will be around for
some time to come.

Both Plextor (a very major manufacturer of optical drives) and Toshiba are
producing optical drives with a SATA interface. There may be other
manufacturers as well. It is somewhat surprising that SATA-interfaced
optical drives still comprise only a tiny fraction of that market. That
should change in the months ahead I would think.

As to external enclosures with a SATA interface - there are many, many of
them being produced right now. They are not uncommon by any means. They come
in a number of varieties - SATA only, USB-SATA combo units, IDE-to-SATA
converters, etc.
Anna

 

[Bruce Chastain]

Uh oh, is someone pirating software instead of properly licensing it in
the
first place?

I said lost, and I meant lost. it was bought 2 moves ago. Now buzz off if
you have nothing nice to say.

Bruce.

 

[Bruce Chastain]

Paul:
Well, I did say "near death". Admittedly it was a somewhat facetious
remark but PATA's days *are* numbered. Note the plethora of recent
motherboards being produced with only a single IDE connector and virtually
every board is now SATA-capable.

Note that the newer Intel P965 chipset doesn't have support for IDE/PATA.

It is somewhat surprising that SATA-interfaced optical drives still
comprise only a tiny fraction of that market. That should change in the
months ahead I would think.

I agree. I have no doubt that PATA will be dropped just as soon as SATA
optical drives become more common. Those are the last holdouts.

Bruce.

 

[Bruce Chastain]

Try:

My installation is far too complex for anything so simple to be workable.

Bruce.

 

[Anna]

Note that the newer Intel P965 chipset doesn't have support for IDE/PATA.


I agree. I have no doubt that PATA will be dropped just as soon as SATA
optical drives become more common. Those are the last holdouts.

Bruce.

Bruce:
With respect to your comment about the Intel P965 chipset not supporting
IDE/PATA...

I know you mentioned that in one of your previous postings as a result of
your coming across a review of the ASUS P5B motherboard in which the
reviewer commented that an auxiliary driver was necessary to install before
the system would recognize an installed optical drive. To the best of my
knowledge that is simply not so. AFAIK, there is no problem with that Intel
chipset along the lines mentioned by the reviewer. When that motherboard is
installed it will detect a optical drive with a PATA interface without the
need of some auxiliary driver/controller just like every other motherboard
being manufactured today. If it didn't, how in the world would one be able
to install an operating system from the OS installation CD, let alone the
drivers contained on the motherboard's installation CD?

If you have *definitive* evidence to the contrary, I would certainly like to
hear about it.
Anna

 

[Bruce Chastain]

I know you mentioned that in one of your previous postings as a result of
your coming across a review of the ASUS P5B motherboard in which the
reviewer commented that an auxiliary driver was necessary to install
before the system would recognize an installed optical drive. To the best
of my knowledge that is simply not so. AFAIK, there is no problem with
that Intel chipset along the lines mentioned by the reviewer. When that
motherboard is installed it will detect a optical drive with a PATA
interface without the need of some auxiliary driver/controller just like
every other motherboard being manufactured today. If it didn't, how in the
world would one be able to install an operating system from the OS
installation CD, let alone the drivers contained on the motherboard's
installation CD?

I think there are 2 issues here. Recognition by the BIOS and recognition by
Windows. The reviewer mentioned nothing about recognition at boot time. As
you note, perhaps that works well without a special driver.

However, he was clear that the optical drive is not recognized by Windows
until the JMicron driver is installed, which can't be done from the
unrecognized drive.

If XP doesn't have a built in JMicron driver, which is not surprising
considering how old SP1 is, that all makes perfect sense. The lack of Intel
P965 chipset PATA support clinches it.

If you have *definitive* evidence to the contrary, I would certainly like
to hear about it.

Since I only have the one source from a professional motherboard reviewer, I
have to assume the source is definitive until someone comes up with *more*
definitive answer. I can't dismiss what is obviously a knowledgeable review
without at least as substantial evidence to the contrary. I appreciate you
taking the time to reply, but to me you haven't presented anything which
would quality as more definitive.

Bruce.

 

[Paul Johnson]

My installation is far too complex for anything so simple to be workable.

Then you need to give more information. Since you are going to have to
reinstall all the software from scratch anyway, I really fail to understand
how there's going to be anything other than user data that's going to be
salvageable before you make the transition.

 

[Paul Johnson]

I said lost, and I meant lost. it was bought 2 moves ago. Now buzz off
if you have nothing nice to say.

If you want to read too far into what people who are trying to help you are
saying and take it personally, you should consider hiring a consultant to
help you with this instead of asking the community for support.

 

[Paul Johnson]

Anna wrote:

Well, I did say "near death". Admittedly it was a somewhat facetious
remark but PATA's days *are* numbered. Note the plethora of recent
motherboards being produced with only a single IDE connector and virtually
every board is now SATA-capable. But it is true that the IDE interface
will be around for some time to come.

Both Plextor (a very major manufacturer of optical drives) and Toshiba are
producing optical drives with a SATA interface. There may be other
manufacturers as well. It is somewhat surprising that SATA-interfaced
optical drives still comprise only a tiny fraction of that market. That
should change in the months ahead I would think.

About the only thing that's going to change this is if motherboards start
coming with more than two SATA headers. Four is good, six is better, eight
or more is ideal. And let's hope some bozo doesn't decide to try and split
the data channels between multiple devices to save coin like they did on
PATA or SATA's not going to be the way to go in a few years...

As to external enclosures with a SATA interface - there are many, many of
them being produced right now. They are not uncommon by any means. They
come in a number of varieties - SATA only, USB-SATA combo units,
IDE-to-SATA converters, etc.

I guess it must just be Oregon or something because these things just aren't
making it to retail or wholesale shelves here.

 

[Paul Johnson]

Note that the newer Intel P965 chipset doesn't have support for IDE/PATA.

It's important to note that SATA is also IDE, which is why what everybody
had been calling IDE got retconned into being named PATA.

I agree. I have no doubt that PATA will be dropped just as soon as SATA
optical drives become more common. Those are the last holdouts.

I thought laptop drives were....

 

[Ron Martell]

No. The odds of a repair install actually working after a motherboard
change is so small as to not be worth the wasted time.

Based on my experience the odds are at least 19 to 1 in favor of the
repair install.

I have done at least 20 motherboard replacements/upgrades recently,
and there was only 1 instance where the Repair Install did not work.
And in that case the computer owner later admitted that they were
having serious problems with the computer before the motherboard died.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
Syberfix Remote Computer Repair

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."

 

[Bruce Chastain]

Based on my experience the odds are at least 19 to 1 in favor of the
repair install.

I have done at least 20 motherboard replacements/upgrades recently,
and there was only 1 instance where the Repair Install did not work.
And in that case the computer owner later admitted that they were
having serious problems with the computer before the motherboard died.

Thank you so much for that encouraging news and information. I really
appreciate your reply.

Bruce.

 

[Anna]

I think there are 2 issues here. Recognition by the BIOS and recognition
by Windows. The reviewer mentioned nothing about recognition at boot
time. As you note, perhaps that works well without a special driver.

However, he was clear that the optical drive is not recognized by Windows
until the JMicron driver is installed, which can't be done from the
unrecognized drive.

If XP doesn't have a built in JMicron driver, which is not surprising
considering how old SP1 is, that all makes perfect sense. The lack of
Intel P965 chipset PATA support clinches it.

Anna writes...

Since I only have the one source from a professional motherboard reviewer,
I have to assume the source is definitive until someone comes up with
*more* definitive answer. I can't dismiss what is obviously a
knowledgeable review without at least as substantial evidence to the
contrary. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but to me you
haven't presented anything which would quality as more definitive.

Bruce.

Bruce:
This evening I spoke with one of my former colleagues re this issue. After
checking with one of the technicians who recently installed a ASUS P5B
Deluxe board, he informed me that there is *no* optical drive recognition
problem with that board. The optical drive is recognized in the identical
way that every other optical drive is recognized by any modern motherboard,
i.e., no special auxiliary controller/drivers are necessary for the XP
operating system to recognize the optical drive. Following successful
installation of the motherboard the system will boot to the XP installation
CD and the motherboard's installation CD will be accessed to install the
necessary drivers for that board. As far as we both know the JMicron drivers
are designed to effect a RAID configuration.

My contact also confirmed my experience of *never* encountering a
(non-defective) motherboard - at least one produced over the past six years
or so - that required auxiliary controller drivers in order for any
Microsoft operating system to recognize an industry-standard CD-DVD optical
drive.
Anna

 

[Bruce Chastain]

Since you are going to have to
reinstall all the software from scratch anyway, I really fail to
understand
how there's going to be anything other than user data that's going to be
salvageable before you make the transition.

The point of my question was to avoid doing exactly that, reinstalling any
of the software. I will not be doing that because I can't do that.

Bruce.

 

[Bruce Chastain]

If you want to read too far into what people who are trying to help you
are
saying and take it personally, you should consider hiring a consultant to
help you with this instead of asking the community for support.

I don't need support laced with accusations.

Bruce.

 

[Bruce Chastain]

This evening I spoke with one of my former colleagues re this issue. After
checking with one of the technicians who recently installed a ASUS P5B
Deluxe board, he informed me that there is *no* optical drive recognition
problem with that board. The optical drive is recognized in the identical
way that every other optical drive is recognized by any modern
motherboard, i.e., no special auxiliary controller/drivers are necessary
for the XP operating system to recognize the optical drive. Following
successful installation of the motherboard the system will boot to the XP
installation CD and the motherboard's installation CD will be accessed to
install the necessary drivers for that board. As far as we both know the
JMicron drivers are designed to effect a RAID configuration.

That's great news!! Perhaps the reviewer got an early version of the board
and ASUS has since tweaked the BIOS to be more compatible with Windows. Or
perhaps the reviewer just got it wrong.

My contact also confirmed my experience of *never* encountering a
(non-defective) motherboard - at least one produced over the past six
years or so - that required auxiliary controller drivers in order for any
Microsoft operating system to recognize an industry-standard CD-DVD
optical drive.

That's also great news.

Anna, thank you soooooooo much for investigating this and setting me
straight! I had x'ed off the P5B as a possible purchase but now I feel much
better about buying one.

Thanks again!

Bruce.

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

I know but a lot of the installed software has been lost over the years.
Doing a fresh install would add several hundred $ to the project.

Pull the hard drive out of the old system, put it into the new one and
do a repair install.

It's the only option you have... and the odds are that it will work.

I've done it twice.

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

Pull the hard drive out of the old system, put it into the new one and
do a repair install.

It's the only option you have... and the odds are that it will work.

I've done it twice.

I neglected to add: clone the old hard drive to the one you want to
keep in the new one and then put the new one into the new system before
doing the repair install.

 

[Bruce Chastain]

Pull the hard drive out of the old system, put it into the new one and
do a repair install.

It's the only option you have... and the odds are that it will work.

I've done it twice.

Very good! Thanks for sharing that!

Bruce.