TOC shows wrong page number after manual page break

[Lyn]

This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.

 

[Mark Tangard]

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If you will apply the "Page break before" property to the heading instead of
inserting a manual page break, you will not have this problem.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Lyn]

Suzanne,
Thanks for your response. As I said, I don't normally want to start every
header at the top of a page, so I don't use this option. It occurs only
occasionally.

Unless you mean something like this:
** Have Page Break Before turned OFF in the heading style for normal use.
** Modify the paragraph setting (not the style) by setting Page Break Before
ON for a particular instance where I do want the header at the top of a
page.

That might be just as easy (and probably more elegant) than inserting a
one-point empty paragraph at the top of the page after a manual break.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

 

[Lyn]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I believe both Mark and I were suggesting (several times, actually) that you
apply this formatting on an ad hoc basis. You can simplify this by adding a
Page Break Before button to your toolbar: open Tools | Customize, display
the Commands tab, select the Format category, and look for the Para Page
Break Before command. Drag it to a toolbar.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Mark Tangard]

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

This particular command doesn't require a macro, however, since, as I've
said, it is available from Tools | Customize as a readymade toolbar
button/menu item (though you'll have to come up with an icon, since it
doesn't have one).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

once
and Depending
on the
page but so
far and
it can
get

 

[Mark Tangard]

You're right, it doesn't. My bad. (It does when *I* use it, though,
because I always want Word to zoom out for a moment so I can see what
the preceding page looks like after the heading is dragged south.)

Hey, no cracks about VBA addiction, eh?

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

This particular command doesn't require a macro, however, since, as I've
said, it is available from Tools | Customize as a readymade toolbar
button/menu item (though you'll have to come up with an icon, since it
doesn't have one).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and
it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.

 

[Terry Farrell]

Mark

Another interesting(?) titbit is to actually look at the list of Word
Standard Commands. Go to Tools, Macros and select Word Commands under the
Look In box. It is here that you find that many commands that you use every
day which have been hidden three or more layers deep in Word Dialog boxes
are actually available in this list. You can 'simply' drag them up onto a
Toolbar so that you fill your toolbar with REALLY USEFULL buttons and not
useless buttons such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold, etc for which there are a
gazillion keyboard commands available.

In fact, there are undocumented commands available that I haven't found in
any dialog boxes at all.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP

PS. Did I really use the word 'interesting'!!!

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

once
and Depending
on the
page but so
far and
it can
get

 

[Mark Tangard]

Oh I know, I know. When I discovered that list, I was "busy" for
several hours....

MT

Mark

Another interesting(?) titbit is to actually look at the list of Word
Standard Commands. Go to Tools, Macros and select Word Commands under the
Look In box. It is here that you find that many commands that you use every
day which have been hidden three or more layers deep in Word Dialog boxes
are actually available in this list. You can 'simply' drag them up onto a
Toolbar so that you fill your toolbar with REALLY USEFULL buttons and not
useless buttons such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold, etc for which there are a
gazillion keyboard commands available.

In fact, there are undocumented commands available that I haven't found in
any dialog boxes at all.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP

PS. Did I really use the word 'interesting'!!!

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and
it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

A very interesting list , thanks to you both for the public FYI and the
concept of SentenceLeft/Right. Had never heard of either but have now
squirreled away the knowledge and am confident it will come in handy some
day.

Is the Macros | Word Commands list the same as the All Commands list in
Tools | Customize, or is there some way to drag a command from the Macros
window to the Toolbar?

DM

Oh I know, I know. When I discovered that list, I was "busy" for
several hours....

MT

Mark

Another interesting(?) titbit is to actually look at the list of Word
Standard Commands. Go to Tools, Macros and select Word Commands under the
Look In box. It is here that you find that many commands that you use every
day which have been hidden three or more layers deep in Word Dialog boxes
are actually available in this list. You can 'simply' drag them up onto a
Toolbar so that you fill your toolbar with REALLY USEFULL buttons and not
useless buttons such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold, etc for which there are a
gazillion keyboard commands available.

In fact, there are undocumented commands available that I haven't found in
any dialog boxes at all.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP

PS. Did I really use the word 'interesting'!!!

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and
it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.

 

[Mark Tangard]

It's basically the same list, but you can't drag things from the
Macros dialog. Getting to The Dragging Place is, once again, a
long series of clicks. For a while I had a SendKeys-based macro
(never a reliable way to do things) to handle the sequence needed
to get there: Alt+T, C, Alt+C, Tab, A, A, Tab pant pant. Shortly
after I bought Keyboard Express, a third-party keystroke recorder,
and this is now a one-stroke command. (Amazing & cheap program,
see http://www.keyboardexpress.com: free uncrippled 30-day trial.)

The sentence commands are great, but a writer typically needs more
of them than just next/previous, so it's a simple matter to build
one's own macros for, e.g., SentenceDelete, SentenceSelect, and my
favorite, SentenceDeleteRestOf.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

A very interesting list , thanks to you both for the public FYI and the
concept of SentenceLeft/Right. Had never heard of either but have now
squirreled away the knowledge and am confident it will come in handy some
day.

Is the Macros | Word Commands list the same as the All Commands list in
Tools | Customize, or is there some way to drag a command from the Macros
window to the Toolbar?

DM

Oh I know, I know. When I discovered that list, I was "busy" for
several hours....

MT

Mark

Another interesting(?) titbit is to actually look at the list of Word
Standard Commands. Go to Tools, Macros and select Word Commands under the
Look In box. It is here that you find that many commands that you use every
day which have been hidden three or more layers deep in Word Dialog boxes
are actually available in this list. You can 'simply' drag them up onto a
Toolbar so that you fill your toolbar with REALLY USEFULL buttons and not
useless buttons such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold, etc for which there are a
gazillion keyboard commands available.

In fact, there are undocumented commands available that I haven't found in
any dialog boxes at all.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP

PS. Did I really use the word 'interesting'!!!

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am
sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format
(not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro
to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out
once
and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc.
Depending
on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new
header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I
don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page
Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a
page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a
nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by
a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on
the
page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options,
but so
far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an
empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page
and
it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and
can
get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional
use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method
using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.

 

[Lyn]

Many thanks to you both. I didn't know that Page Break Before was available
as a command. I have now assigned a hotkey.

A nice feature is that use of the command has a toggle action, so it works
both ways.

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers,
Lyn.

This particular command doesn't require a macro, however, since, as I've
said, it is available from Tools | Customize as a readymade toolbar
button/menu item (though you'll have to come up with an icon, since it
doesn't have one).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I

am

sure

format

(not

macro

to

a

page

by

a

on

the

page

and

and

can

occasional

use.

 

[Jeff Malka]

I am new to Word and recently was told of some real nice ones:
1) F4 to repeat whatever
2) Shift F3 for case conversions (very useful to me when I hit the Caps lock
by accident on my darn laptop) and best of all:
3) the split bar to see two parts of the same document simultaneously!!

Are the macros you prepared available for download somewhere for newbies
like me? I already have a couple I created on my toolbar ("Insert a
footnote" and "capitalize" [first letter of this word] - which I "may" no
longer need now that I found out about Shift F3).

--
Jeff McPherson
Email address deliberately false to avoid spam
(e-mail address removed)

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

once
and Depending
on the
page but so
far and
it can
get

 

[Jeff Malka]

Sorry for overhearing and butting in
I did that and it was fascinating. Is there some way to print out this list
of commands and descriptions to study at "leisure"? There are almost too
many to peruse and choose from!

--
Jeff McPherson
Email address deliberately false to avoid spam
(e-mail address removed)

Mark

Another interesting(?) titbit is to actually look at the list of Word
Standard Commands. Go to Tools, Macros and select Word Commands under the
Look In box. It is here that you find that many commands that you use every
day which have been hidden three or more layers deep in Word Dialog boxes
are actually available in this list. You can 'simply' drag them up onto a
Toolbar so that you fill your toolbar with REALLY USEFULL buttons and not
useless buttons such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold, etc for which there are a
gazillion keyboard commands available.

In fact, there are undocumented commands available that I haven't found in
any dialog boxes at all.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP

PS. Did I really use the word 'interesting'!!!

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I

am

sure

format

(not

macro

to

a

page

by

a

on

the

page

and

and

can

occasional

use.

 

[Mark Tangard]

Jeff,

I'd be embarrassed to death to distribute most of those I've made
for myself, since most were created in a hurry and most have no
error checking, meaning they would be as likely to confuse than
to edify. (As a rule distributable macros are much longer than
personal macros, to try & handle all conceivable uses & misuses.)
But whenever you feel like you need one, just go at it for a bit,
then if you hit a snag, post your code here (or, better, in the
ms.public.word.vba.beginners group) and it'll generally be jumped
on in a matter of hours. (And if you don't know how to start,
just describe what you want to do.)

Case conversions: Often I need to first-cap or first-decap a whole
series of words but skip the prepositions, etc. I built a macro
that jumps from word to word doing that, and it's mapped to a
hotkey so I don't have to select anything; just hit the key for
each word. And unlike Shift+F3, it knows (sort of) which words
to skip. Some people think this is pointless. That's the point;
you build macros you need for your particular situation. (Just
yell if you want this one.)

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

I am new to Word and recently was told of some real nice ones:
1) F4 to repeat whatever
2) Shift F3 for case conversions (very useful to me when I hit the Caps lock
by accident on my darn laptop) and best of all:
3) the split bar to see two parts of the same document simultaneously!!

Are the macros you prepared available for download somewhere for newbies
like me? I already have a couple I created on my toolbar ("Insert a
footnote" and "capitalize" [first letter of this word] - which I "may" no
longer need now that I found out about Shift F3).

--
Jeff McPherson
Email address deliberately false to avoid spam
(e-mail address removed)

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and
it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.

 

[Mark Tangard]

Yes, you can run the 'ListCommands' command from that same dialog.
What it gives you is none too neat, but purports to be the whole
arsenal.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters

Sorry for overhearing and butting in
I did that and it was fascinating. Is there some way to print out this list
of commands and descriptions to study at "leisure"? There are almost too
many to peruse and choose from!

--
Jeff McPherson
Email address deliberately false to avoid spam
(e-mail address removed)

Mark

Another interesting(?) titbit is to actually look at the list of Word
Standard Commands. Go to Tools, Macros and select Word Commands under the
Look In box. It is here that you find that many commands that you use every
day which have been hidden three or more layers deep in Word Dialog boxes
are actually available in this list. You can 'simply' drag them up onto a
Toolbar so that you fill your toolbar with REALLY USEFULL buttons and not
useless buttons such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold, etc for which there are a
gazillion keyboard commands available.

In fact, there are undocumented commands available that I haven't found in
any dialog boxes at all.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP

PS. Did I really use the word 'interesting'!!!

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/AsgnCmdOrMacroToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I

am

sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph

format

(not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a

macro

to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:

This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of

a

page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately

by

a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click

on

the
page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the

page

and
it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution

and

can
get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for

occasional

use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.