tiny tabbed rtf editor: kPad

Discussion in 'Freeware' started by omega, Apr 25, 2004.

  1. omega

    omega Guest

    kPad, by Konstantin Boukreev
    http://www.codeproject.com/wtl/kpad.asp?print=true

    This is the tiniest freeware rtf editor I've yet to see.

    In shareware, radsoft.net has rixedit and family, which are surely the
    smallest of all time. In freeware, Notehalf might be mentioned. It is
    160k. Well, not counting its vb dependencies, ie the 1.4mb msvbvm60.dll.
    Either way, those are both SDI, one document per instance. kPad is tabbed.

    I am convinced kPad is the smallest functional tabbed rtf editor out there.
    It is 104k. Then UPX, that brings it down to 54k (!).

    It does richtext: those basics, such as font styles and colors. It does
    not do OLE, such as pics insertion.

    It has persistent settings, including your preferred background color. It
    keeps a recents docs list under the File manu.

    It has internal drag-drop, where you can move text around with your mouse.

    It is hyperlink aware. I tested with "http://" and with "file:".

    It will of course open .txt. But its orientation is .rtf. By this, I mean
    that it will offer up formatting commands on opened .txt files, and that
    the New File command defaults to giving a name with an .rtf extension.
    OTOH, it is flexible in the Open dialog, which defaults initially to *.*.

    On the New File operation, it is has a good, considerate autonaming
    feature. It automatically provides you provisional, unique names.
    New1.rtf, New2.rtf, New3.rtf, etc.

    While this is a demo, a beta, I haven't been able to spot any problems
    or significant shortcomings.

    The only small matter I've noticed. When I drag a document onto a link
    for it, the display is an SFN (shortf~1.rtf) instead of the LFN. Only
    that one circumstance. It of course can read and write LFNs, and things
    are fine in the Open/Save interactions.

    You can open files from the explorer by dropping them onto its document
    window. There is one thing I noticed. It was fine with that up to about
    a 300k size, but GPF'ed on me with files larger than that. When I tried
    those same test files in the Open/Save, it was fine.

    About filesize max. That might be fairly intertwined with the strength of
    your hardware. Largest file I tried was 1.5mb, and it did manage to open
    that, but got pale and sweaty in the struggle for a bit, until at last
    succeeding in heaving it up.

    That was a text file. I don't think I have any simple .rtf files that are
    that large. My larger ones have embedded pictures, which a non-OLE rtf
    editor like this cannot display. Here is a small result, though. It was
    fine with a 500k .rtf I handed it. Then on a multimeg .rtf, it failed,
    displayed only a fraction of it.

    About the richtext files this can read and write. Again no OLE/pics. And
    too: the files need to be the low-end of the rtf file format. It does not
    handle tables very well (alignment is skewed and so on). But hey, At 104k,
    I don't really expect the sophistication found in those editors that are
    closer to the scale of word processors.

    Conclude. I recommend this for fans of SMALL. I stand by the assertion that
    no tabbed rtf editor gets close to how compact this is.

    Eh, but about the download. In case you've not previously used codeproject.
    You need to make an email identity + password, which they store in a cookie,
    and required for getting files from them. You can use an imaginary email
    address (there is not a confirm process), and do not have to fill out long
    BS forms (zipcode etc). So the signup is pretty brief, other than entailing
    some extra clicking until you have created your codeproject cookie.

    Here is the URL again:

    http://www.codeproject.com/wtl/kpad.asp?print=true


    --
    Karen S.
     
    omega, Apr 25, 2004
    #1
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  2. omega wrote:

    > kPad, by Konstantin Boukreev
    > http://www.codeproject.com/wtl/kpad.asp?print=true
    >
    > This is the tiniest freeware rtf editor I've yet to see.


    > Eh, but about the download. In case you've not previously used codeproject.
    > You need to make an email identity + password, which they store in a cookie,
    > and required for getting files from them. You can use an imaginary email
    > address (there is not a confirm process), and do not have to fill out long
    > BS forms (zipcode etc). So the signup is pretty brief, other than entailing
    > some extra clicking until you have created your codeproject cookie.


    A search on Google yields the following presumably unofficial mirror:
    http://www.neowulf.net/Pub/
     
    Ulrich Neumann, Apr 25, 2004
    #2
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  3. omega

    omega Guest

    Ulrich Neumann <>:
    >
    > omega wrote:
    >
    > > kPad, by Konstantin Boukreev
    > > http://www.codeproject.com/wtl/kpad.asp?print=true
    > >
    > > You need to make an email identity + password, which they store in a cookie,

    [...]
    >
    > A search on Google yields the following presumably unofficial mirror:
    > http://www.neowulf.net/Pub/


    I'd done a quick search on Google too. Mainly to see if the author had a
    homepage, and had continued kPad development (no luck). My search hadn't
    yielded an external download location - so I appreciate the link. Always
    better to be able to access directly, not hassle with signups & cookies.

    --
    Karen S.
     
    omega, Apr 25, 2004
    #3
  4. omega

    omega Guest

    Ulrich Neumann <>:
    >
    > omega wrote:
    >
    > > kPad, by Konstantin Boukreev

    >
    > A search on Google yields the following presumably unofficial mirror:
    > http://www.neowulf.net/Pub/


    In the htm index for the apps neowulf lists, yields a good grin re the
    office suites warning...

    "OpenOffice.org

    WARNING: use of OpenOffice may cause you to stop wasting money
    on other office suites. It has all the power of M$ Office Pro,
    plus MORE (especially if you download an add-on or template)."

    http://www.neowulf.net/Freeware.htm

    --
    Karen S.
     
    omega, Apr 25, 2004
    #4
  5. omega wrote:
    >
    > kPad, by Konstantin Boukreev
    > http://www.codeproject.com/wtl/kpad.asp?print=true
    >
    > This is the tiniest freeware rtf editor I've yet to see.


    Interestingly, it's tiny in file size but its memory footprint is not
    that tiny. Output of "pslist -m":

    Name Pid VM WS Priv Priv Pk Faults NonP Page
    kPad 1764 36200 6992 2224 2648 3159 6 28

    In conclusion, after looking at quite a few text editors I think there
    is no real correlation between file size and memory footprint.
    I would be very happy if somebody could confirm this as I am not sure
    how reliable my testing method is.

    Ulrich
     
    Ulrich Neumann, Apr 26, 2004
    #5
  6. omega

    omega Guest

    Re: tiny tabbed rtf editor: kPad (measuring program memory usage)

    Ulrich Neumann <>:
    >
    > omega wrote:
    > >
    > > kPad, by Konstantin Boukreev
    > > http://www.codeproject.com/wtl/kpad.asp?print=true
    > >
    > > This is the tiniest freeware rtf editor I've yet to see.

    >
    > Interestingly, it's tiny in file size but its memory footprint is not
    > that tiny.


    I haven't measured. I can say that it would not be completely standalone.
    It would be using the MS richedit control. The version of that DLL I load
    most is 400k - then there is one version of it that is 900k.

    > Output of "pslist -m":
    >
    > Name Pid VM WS Priv Priv Pk Faults NonP Page
    > kPad 1764 36200 6992 2224 2648 3159 6 28
    >
    > In conclusion, after looking at quite a few text editors I think there
    > is no real correlation between file size and memory footprint.
    > I would be very happy if somebody could confirm this as I am not sure
    > how reliable my testing method is.


    The way I test is more direct and simple. I read my free physcial memory
    count before I load the app. Then the drop in memory count after the app
    is loaded. Specifically, I use Memload to do that artithmetic for me, its
    "snapshot" function (don't know if that one's 2000/XP compatible).

    To avoid the matter of shared modules (such as richedit) affecting the
    memory drop count, then one method I take is to reboot in between testing
    apps. At those reboots I have nothing in startup (other than a few DLLs
    hooked into the explorer). Also, for very serious, I set my vcache to zero,
    so there is not confusion with I/O things caching into RAM and thereby
    affecting its totals.

    Separately from that, I have a couple of process monitors that tell me a
    count for memory that a program is using. They separate out what modules
    the program loads that are shareed and what modules are private. Their
    readings have very close relation to physical size of executables and
    their loaded modules. (Then in addition there is a field called stacks.
    Whose meaning I don't understand, but anyway, it is a small number.)

    I'd think that those numbers I get from those utilities ought be similar
    to the "priv" field you get from pslist. However, in my tests, it was Scite
    that was definitely victor as far as memory over the NoteTabs.

    Finally, I have one or two procmonts that give great big numbers, 20-80+
    megabytes. I might compare the numbers I got there with those large VM
    numbers that PSlist is giving you. Also, yesterday I tried a commandline
    tool that gave something like total mapped memory per process, and those
    numbers might be for the some sort of thing.

    I don't expect to understand the pslist output too deeply. I did download
    the msft reskit 2000 chapter that talks a little on the subject. But,
    every time I've read that subject, it gets quicly very technical, my eyes
    tending to glaze over after the first few paragraphs, so I'm not expecting
    today to suddenly have bright enlightenment.

    Anyway, I'll post to the other thread later at least my main results. The
    testing of Scite v NoteTab. The results from the intuitive method for me:
    How much did my RAM drop when I loaded the app?

    I'll see when I get there how far to get into posting my process monitor
    output. Or what I can or cannot work out when comparing with your (NT only
    tool) pslist output.

    .. . .

    The reason the post might take me a while to get to, that was that I wrote
    down numbers with pen and paper. In afterthought, I could have hunted down
    for note-taking an editor that doesn't load any extra modules (eg richedit
    dlls), but did not. Now my challenge is to decipher what I wrote with my
    totally illegible hand-writing.

    --
    Karen S.
     
    omega, Apr 26, 2004
    #6
  7. omega

    omega Guest

    Re: tiny tabbed rtf editor: kPad (measuring program memory usage)

    Ulrich Neumann <>:
    >
    > Output of "pslist -m":


    Incidentally, right now I've come across a tool from the msft reskit
    that sounds to generate fields similar to those provide by Sysinternal's
    pslist -m parameter.

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/tools/existing/vadump-o.asp

    | Vadump.exe: Virtual Address Dump
    |
    | VaDump creates a listing that contains information about the memory
    | usage of a specified process. That list includes the following:
    |
    | * Each address, along with its size, state, protection, and type.
    | * Total committed memory for the image, the .exe file, and each .dll
    | file, including system .dll files.
    | * Total mapped-committed, private-committed, and reserved memory.
    | * Information about the working set and about paged and nonpaged pool
    | usage.

    Page also states this: "You can use VaDump to make sure virtual address
    space is not over-allocated." Not something that sounds to me to be of
    typical concern. That second item in the list, total committed memory,
    that's the area where I'd be most inclined to look. Except if it is not
    separating shared versus private. Total mapped-committed, well, those
    numbers that I got from a CLI tool were just huge and irrelevant to me.
    The private-commited, okay, but that's something that I'd still need to
    try and read explanation about.

    I don't have 2000/XP, though, so this is another tool that whose output
    I cannot attempt to test and assess myself. And again, I still value
    most my simplistic approach to the matter. RAM before minus RAM after.
    It is more within the range of what is understandable to me. :)


    --
    Karen S.
     
    omega, Apr 26, 2004
    #7
  8. Re: tiny tabbed rtf editor: kPad (measuring program memory usage)

    omega wrote:
    >
    > Ulrich Neumann <>:
    > >
    > > Output of "pslist -m":

    >
    > Incidentally, right now I've come across a tool from the msft reskit
    > that sounds to generate fields similar to those provide by Sysinternal's
    > pslist -m parameter.
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/tools/existing/vadump-o.asp


    Here are the results for Mini NoteTab, NoteTab Light, Scite and kPad.
    Well, actually it's just an excerpt since the total output varies
    between 12 and 24 kB per text editor.

    *Mini NoteTab*

    Total Mapped Commitment 2465792
    READONLY: 995328
    READWRITE: 131072
    EXECUTEREAD: 1339392

    Total Priv Commitment 962560
    READONLY: 4096
    READWRITE: 946176
    EXECUTEREADWRITE: 12288

    Dynamic Reserved Memory 12804096

    PageFaults: 1133
    PeakWorkingSetSize 3768320
    WorkingSetSize 3764224
    PeakPagedPoolUsage 22312
    PagedPoolUsage 21736
    PeakNonPagedPoolUsage 3704
    NonPagedPoolUsage 3064
    PagefileUsage 1359872
    PeakPagefileUsage 1359872

    *NoteTab Light*

    Total Mapped Commitment 2732032
    READONLY: 1257472
    READWRITE: 135168
    EXECUTEREAD: 1339392

    Total Priv Commitment 860160
    READONLY: 4096
    READWRITE: 839680
    EXECUTEREADWRITE: 16384

    Dynamic Reserved Memory 20258816

    PageFaults: 1828
    PeakWorkingSetSize 5414912
    WorkingSetSize 5398528
    PeakPagedPoolUsage 25612
    PagedPoolUsage 24396
    PeakNonPagedPoolUsage 4496
    NonPagedPoolUsage 3792
    PagefileUsage 1384448
    PeakPagefileUsage 1384448

    *Scite*

    Total Mapped Commitment 2498560
    READONLY: 1011712
    READWRITE: 147456
    EXECUTEREAD: 1339392

    Total Priv Commitment 1572864
    READONLY: 4096
    READWRITE: 1540096
    EXECUTEREADWRITE: 28672

    Dynamic Reserved Memory 26320896

    PageFaults: 2418
    PeakWorkingSetSize 8224768
    WorkingSetSize 8224768
    PeakPagedPoolUsage 39080
    PagedPoolUsage 34000
    PeakNonPagedPoolUsage 9716
    NonPagedPoolUsage 6720
    PagefileUsage 3174400
    PeakPagefileUsage 3256320

    *kPad*

    Total Mapped Commitment 2482176
    READONLY: 1011712
    READWRITE: 131072
    EXECUTEREAD: 1339392

    Total Priv Commitment 741376
    READONLY: 4096
    READWRITE: 704512
    EXECUTEREADWRITE: 32768

    Dynamic Reserved Memory 17805312

    PageFaults: 2408
    PeakWorkingSetSize 6541312
    WorkingSetSize 6352896
    PeakPagedPoolUsage 32176
    PagedPoolUsage 28832
    PeakNonPagedPoolUsage 7192
    NonPagedPoolUsage 5992
    PagefileUsage 2150400
    PeakPagefileUsage 2666496

    The Working Set values are more or less similar to those of pslist.
    Regarding the other values I am unable to see any similarities to
    pslist.

    However, if you compare these (vadump) values

    *Mini NoteTab*
    Total Mapped Commitment 2465792
    Total Priv Commitment 962560
    Dynamic Reserved Memory 12804096

    *kPad*
    Total Mapped Commitment 2482176
    Total Priv Commitment 741376
    Dynamic Reserved Memory 17805312

    *NoteTab Light*
    Total Mapped Commitment 2732032
    Total Priv Commitment 860160
    Dynamic Reserved Memory 20258816

    *Scite*
    Total Mapped Commitment 2498560
    Total Priv Commitment 1572864
    Dynamic Reserved Memory 26320896

    to these (pslist) values

    Name Pid VM WS Priv Priv Pk Faults NonP Page
    MININOTE 1804 25080 3588 1332 1332 1114 2 21
    NoteTab 860 34252 5164 1336 1348 1799 3 23
    kPad 1764 36200 6992 2224 2648 3159 6 28
    SciTE 540 46060 9460 4216 4256 3495 7 36

    it becomes quite clear that Mini NoteTab comes first, NoteTab Light and
    kPad share the second place, whereas Scite comes third (or is it fourth
    technically spoken?) regarding low memory consumption.

    Ulrich
     
    Ulrich Neumann, Apr 26, 2004
    #8
  9. Re: tiny tabbed rtf editor: kPad (measuring program memory usage)

    omega wrote:

    > The way I test is more direct and simple. I read my free physcial memory
    > count before I load the app. Then the drop in memory count after the app
    > is loaded. Specifically, I use Memload to do that artithmetic for me, its
    > "snapshot" function (don't know if that one's 2000/XP compatible).


    Do you mean this one here? http://www.snapfiles.com/get/memload.html
    If so, only the right pane of the Memload window seems to work in
    2000/XP. There are no details about processes. I am not so sure about
    the snapshot function since that number (and thus the other values as
    well) is changing constantly even though I am not touching the computer.

    But...

    > To avoid the matter of shared modules (such as richedit) affecting the
    > memory drop count, then one method I take is to reboot in between testing
    > apps. At those reboots I have nothing in startup (other than a few DLLs
    > hooked into the explorer). Also, for very serious, I set my vcache to zero,
    > so there is not confusion with I/O things caching into RAM and thereby
    > affecting its totals.


    .... I am not doing all this, so that might be an explanation.
    If you can be absolutely sure that no other application or dll is
    influencing the snapshot value during your testing, then everything
    should be fine. So please excuse my underlying scepticism. But maybe
    this is just nitpicking.

    > The reason the post might take me a while to get to, that was that I wrote
    > down numbers with pen and paper. In afterthought, I could have hunted down
    > for note-taking an editor that doesn't load any extra modules (eg richedit
    > dlls), but did not. Now my challenge is to decipher what I wrote with my
    > totally illegible hand-writing.


    *grin*
    That's why I try to avoid writing with pen and paper as much as
    possible. ;-)

    Ulrich
     
    Ulrich Neumann, Apr 26, 2004
    #9
  10. omega

    omega Guest

    Re: tiny tabbed rtf editor: kPad (measuring program memory usage)

    Ulrich Neumann <>:
    >
    > Here are the results for Mini NoteTab, NoteTab Light, Scite and kPad.

    [...]

    I have been lately researching avidly on the topic, eg the value / lack
    of value in the working set number...and all the other numbers. There is
    in particular this intense complication with the OS's paging activities.
    It is all very complex! Right now, instead of getting nearer to a reply,
    I am being pulled backward by riptide into big seas. The more I read
    on the subject, the further I drift from being able to make out a clear
    picture at the shoreline.

    Thus, I'll probably hold off until tomorrow or so to make any comments
    on this subject of measuring memory load. Maybe then I'll have a few shots
    of tequila first, so that I would not be nervous if I have to resort to
    just making some stuff up. 8-o


    --
    Karen S.
     
    omega, Apr 28, 2004
    #10
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