Those Windows Defender Checkpoints again

[Guest]

I switched from the MS Antispyware program to Defender about 10 days ago. It
was about a week before I noticed the dozens of Defender Checkpoints that
were being added - up to 8 every day. It seemed to me that this couldn't be
right, so I sought out this newsgroup and read all the posts there have been
about it.

I don't feel at all competent to edit the registry, and so the fix that has
been offered was no help to me. I solved the problem simply by switching off
real time protection, and just doing a manual quick scan at the end of most
days.

But what troubles me is this. Why has no patch been issued to solve this? I
don't think it's reasonable to expect users to edit the registry to solve the
problem. How long will this be allowed to go on? There must be a vast number
of people out there who haven't noticed that Defender is generating all these
restore points, and who are unaware that it may now be impossible to do a
system restore to a time before Defender was installed. This for me is the
most serious issue of all. I know it's a beta; I know one must expect issues.
But why is there no response about it, other than a (for me,
incomprehensible) registry fix? There are all these updates - so many
opportunities to apply a patch. Why hasn't it been done?

 

[Stuart]

You probably found my name in the posts. I agree totally. In fact, I feel
Microsoft is not listening to its own beta results. Therefore my question to
any MVPs listening - Is there anyway we can get MS to agree to extend
Anti-spyware Beta 1 beyond the end of July. If not, MS will have lost me as
a protection customer and may be sacrificing a major market opportunity.
Maybe MS feels forced to release Vista, but there is no such force to
release Defender when we are saying it is not ready. IMHO,
Stuart//

 

[plun]

Hi Stuart

I cannot see the problem with system restore and restore points.

Every user have enough with restore points despite of this
maybe stupid functionality to create RPs out of WD.

MS wants to be totally safe if someone calls PCSAFETY.....
Just to rollback to a RP before WD did something.

But maybe I have missed something ? I have my RPs limited to
1GB > 10 RPs and that´s enough IMHO ......

Regards
plun

 

[Guest]

I cannot see the problem with system restore and restore points.

In the 7 days while I had RTP running on Defender, over 40 checkpoints were
made. At the moment, thankfully, I still have about 40 earlier ones,
stretching back several months. If I'd left RTP switched on, in another week
all those earlier checkpoints would have been lost. Only Defender checkpoints
would have remained. So if I were to decide a week from now that I needed to
uninstall Defender and restore to a state before it was installed, I wouldn't
have been able to do so. I suspect there are many thousands of Defender users
who are already in that position, but don't realise it, because they simply
haven't noticed the checkpoint proliferation. (Why should they?)

At the very least we should have an option to restrict the number of
checkpoints to one per day, or something sensible. I agree entirely with
Stuart. What's the point of having a beta issue if the real problems arising
are being completely ignored?

There's also the ATWPKT2 issue, which seems to have been around since April,
but nothing done to fix it. Here's a conflict between an AOL driver and
Defender - and no action taken. What sense does that make? I'm also
suspicious that many of the spurious ATWPKT2 reports coincided quite closely
in time to many Defender checkpoints, and wonder whether the two are related.
Is there any indication that AOL users are suffering more than most from the
multiple checkpoint issue?

 

[plun]

Hi

Well, of course this is a "bug" but I cannot see the problem with
it....

I cannot see any reason to have RPs months ago, if something is
is wrong a user easily can visit a HijackThis forum or clean it up
themselves.

MS is so scared to ruin any users PC, every tool from MS
is "limited" such as Disk cleaner compared with for example CCleaner.
And that´s it....

Maybe MS fixes this but I cannot see any reason to be scared about
this.... ?!

About AOL I have no clues or comments..... AOL is "dead" within my
country...

regards
plun

 

[Guest]

:

Well, of course this is a "bug" but I cannot see the problem with
it....
I cannot see any reason to have RPs months ago, if something is
is wrong a user easily can visit a HijackThis forum or clean it up
themselves.

It's no use going to a hijack this forum if it's Defender itself that's
responsible for messing your system up. That's my concern.

I want the security of knowing that, after a reasonable trial, if I decide
it's causing problems, I can uninstall Defender and if necessary get back to
a good system state using system restore. That is actually the official
Microsoft advice if there are problems - to uninstall and if necessary, do a
system restore. My point is that Defender has its own built-in system of
making that advice impossible to follow after a couple of weeks of using it.

 

[Guest]

You are referring to a peice of beta software that is several months old,
perhaps we will get a new build soon. Anycase, Microsoft have not announced a
release date as far as I am aware and are still actively working on the
product.

So climb down off your soap box and quit complaining about a beta product
having issues and bugs... shock horror!

 

[Guest]

So climb down off your soap box and quit complaining about a beta product
having issues and bugs... shock horror!

Thanks for this reassuring response to my concern about the program and the
negative effect it's had on my system. Most helpful, and just what I needed.

 

[plun]

Hi

Well, a restore point is needed if something is totally wrong.

And despite of System restore and RPs the main rule is to have backups.

Backups,Backups and Backups..... !

So this is a strange challenge......

Maybe "mission impossible" for MS to clarify...

regards
plun

 

[John]

I want the security of knowing that, after a reasonable trial, if I decide
it's causing problems, I can uninstall Defender and if necessary get back to
a good system state using system restore. That is actually the official
Microsoft advice if there are problems - to uninstall and if necessary, do a
system restore. My point is that Defender has its own built-in system of
making that advice impossible to follow after a couple of weeks of using it.

In a message posted on June 11, 2006 in the newsgroup
microsoft.private.security.spyware.appcompat with the subject line "Re:
System Restore", the following procedure is given to stop the Windows
Defender Checkpoints from being created:

=====================
"To turn off the "Windows Defender Checkpoints", courtesy of Steve
Dodson and Bill Sanderson:

In the registry editor,

Create a "REG_DWORD" Key named "DisableRestorePoint" and set it to TRUE
under the following location in the registry.

HKLM/Software/Microsoft/Windows Defender/Scan/
--------------------------------------
This needs a little interpretation:

1) find the location named above.
2) Highlight the Scan object, and right click it, choose permissions,
and give your user FULL.
3) create a value as instructed above, and set it to "1."
4) reverse your action in 2)--uncheck Full for your user.
=====================

I haven't tried this yet, but I plan to do so. It remains to be seen if
this will cause the system to revert to the old behavior of creating a
System Checkpoint once a day. My guess is that it will not because that
is probably controlled by a different registry setting. More likely, it
will stop the automatic creation of any checkpoints except when directed
to do so by a software installation.

The usual caveats to anyone editing the registry apply here. Back it up
first.

John