The true cost of printing ink ?

[Red Fox]

Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the empty
cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the ink and
refilling cost so much?

It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now becoming
an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down.

Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into
the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one? Undoubtedly
the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has anyone done this?

TIA

RF

 

[Jim Ford]

Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into
the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one? Undoubtedly
the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has anyone done this?

One for you I think, measekite!

Jim Ford

 

[Jan Alter]

Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the empty
cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the ink and
refilling cost so much?

It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now
becoming
an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down.

Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into
the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one? Undoubtedly
the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has anyone done this?

TIA

RF

Do a little Google search and you'll find an easy dozen companies selling
ink in bulk to do just that. You can also do a search for refilling
cartirdges. Some are easier than others. Additionally some of these
cartridges have little cb 's on then (circuit board) that are implanted
there by the manufacturer to thwart anyone from refilling. However, chip
resetters have been around almost as long as the cb's to reprogram the chips
to say 'full' again and thwart the printer companies. It's a vicious circle
that makes ink the bulk of the money for printer companies while buying the
ink in bulk and refilling saves it for the consumer.

Jan Alter
(e-mail address removed)
(e-mail address removed)12.pa.us

 

[measekite]

Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the empty
cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the ink and
refilling cost so much?

It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now becoming
an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down.

Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into
the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one?

It is very messy and you never know what you are getting. The vendor
relabelers do not disclose who the mfg/formulator is. All they say is
compatible and that means nothing. This ink cannot produce the quality
of the printer mfg ink, does not have the longevity, and has a higher
risk of clogging your printer. Any damage caused by this ink will void
your warranty. There are a lot of people who do use this but many lie
about the results they get because they need to justify that they made
savings when many ruined their printers and did not save much.

Now if you print so much that you are changing your carts every week
than you do need to take the risk.

 

[measekite]

Jan Alter wrote:

"Red Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...



Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the empty cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the ink and refilling cost so much? It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now becoming an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down. Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one? Undoubtedly the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has anyone done this? TIA RF



Do a little Google search and you'll find an easy dozen companies selling ink in bulk to do just that. You can also do a search for refilling cartirdges. Some are easier than others. Additionally some of these cartridges have little cb 's on then (circuit board) that are implanted there by the manufacturer to thwart anyone from refilling. However, chip resetters have been around almost as long as the cb's to reprogram the chips to say 'full' again and thwart the printer companies. It's a vicious circle that makes ink the bulk of the money for printer companies while buying the ink in bulk and refilling saves it for the consumer. Jan Alter [email protected] [email protected]


The ink bought by this person is ued by kids in school.  It is not used in a photo printer and there are no real requirements for quality or longevity.  The type of printer they use is not a real good Epson and even Epson's ink for this particular printer was problematic.

 

[Jim Robinson]

Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the
empty cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the
ink and refilling cost so much?

Very simple. Printer makers selling their own ink make a killing from
your wallet.

It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now
becoming an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down.

No. Printer makers will never reduce their prices as it is their cash
cow. They willingly give the printers away and then soak you royally for
their ink.

Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded
into the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one?

Yes, of course, millions are doing it. You can buy bottles sized from 2
oz to a gallon. But stick with smaller sizes if you don't print often as
ink does deterioriate over long periods of time.

It's usually a very simple task and not messy at all unless you're a born
klutz like Measekite who has admitted he spilt ink on his rug. Not sure
if he mean carpet or his toupee. But difficulty depends on the particular
cartridge type used. Canons are generally easiest to refill, so they all
say here.

Undoubtedly the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has
anyone done this?

No, the printhead has to be protected from air. Stick your spare set of
refilled cartridges in printer and then fill empty set. Never leave
printhead exposed without cartridges unless it's a Lexmark or HP which
have built in printheads in the carts. Then it's no problem removing them
at any time.


When you buy bulk or refill kits, you'll be given specific intructions
for refilling, follow them closely. Buy only ink made for your exact
printer type. Under no circumstances should you use ink that says it is
good for all printers. That's wishful thinking, not to mention a possible
waste of money. You will likely not be too pleased with the results, plus
it can possibly damage your printer.


Refilling can save you depending on print volume from several hundred to
several thousand dollars. I'm in the thousand dollar bracket. And it's
tax free since it never leaves your wallet.


Best of luck!



Jim Robinson, wife Wendy, and two printaholic teens!

 

[Rod]

The vendor

relabelers do not disclose who the mfg/formulator is. All they say is
compatible and that means nothing. This ink cannot produce the quality
of the printer mfg ink, does not have the longevity, and has a higher
risk of clogging your printer. Any damage caused by this ink will void
your warranty. There are a lot of people who do use this but many lie
about the results they get because they need to justify that they made
savings when many ruined their printers and did not save much.

I have used MIS bulk ink for many years.
Everything you say above is not true, at least
with their ink. There is no quality difference,
they last as long and head clogs have been minimal
and I have always been able to unclog them. I
figure in four years, doing an average amount of
printing, I have saved close to $2,000 in ink
costs. That is a lot of new print heads and even
printers that were never needed. Even if I had to
buy a new printer every year (which I haven't) I
would have saved hundreds of dollars in ink costs.

 

[Frank]

It is very messy and you never know what you are getting.

Oh? So you've done ink cart refilling?
Well...?

The vendor

relabelers do not disclose who the mfg/formulator is. All they say is
compatible and that means nothing.

It doesn't? How do you know?

This ink cannot produce the quality

of the printer mfg ink, does not have the longevity, and has a higher
risk of clogging your printer.

Oh, so you have personal experience using this ink? Well...?


Any damage caused by this ink will void

your warranty.

Really? You've had your warranty voided because you've used this ink? Is
that correct?

There are a lot of people who do use this but many lie

about the results they get because they need to justify that they made
savings when many ruined their printers and did not save much.

Oh, and you know this because you've personally looked over their
shoulders while they printed using this ink? Well...?

Now if you print so much that you are changing your carts every week
than you do need to take the risk.

What risk are they taking?
Well...?
Frank

 

[Frank]

measekite wrote:

The ink bought by this person is ued by kids in school. It is not used
in a photo printer and there are no real requirements for quality or
longevity. The type of printer they use is not a real good Epson and
even Epson's ink for this particular printer was problematic.

Oh? You've had this printer?
You've used the oem ink it uses?
Well...answer the question or else we will all think you're a damn liar.
Well...?
Liar or not?
Frank

 

[measekite]

Jim Robinson wrote:

"Red Fox" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:



Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the empty cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the ink and refilling cost so much?



Very simple. Printer makers selling their own ink make a killing from your wallet.



It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now becoming an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down.



No. Printer makers will never reduce their prices as it is their cash cow. They willingly give the printers away and then soak you royally for their ink.

\
If one would think a bit then they could reason out that if the Printer MFG are loosing money on their cash cow then they will change the way they do business.  It is their cash cow because the majority of the peopel are choosing to get the best ink.






Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one?



Yes, of course, millions are doing it.


Relatively very few are doing it.  If not the printer mfg would not be making money.


You can buy bottles sized from 2 oz to a gallon. But stick with smaller sizes if you don't print often as ink does deterioriate over long periods of time. It's usually a very simple task and not

it is very


messy






at all unless you're a born klutz like Measekite who has admitted he spilt ink on his rug. Not sure if he mean carpet or his toupee. But difficulty depends on the particular cartridge type used. Canons are generally easiest to refill, so they all say here.



Undoubtedly the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has anyone done this?



No, the printhead has to be protected from air. Stick your spare set of refilled cartridges in printer and then fill empty set. Never leave printhead exposed without cartridges unless it's a Lexmark or HP which have built in printheads in the carts. Then it's no problem removing them at any time. When you buy bulk or refill kits, you'll be given specific intructions for refilling, follow them closely. Buy only ink made for your exact printer type. Under no circumstances should you use ink that says it is good for all printers.

One never knows what they are getting cause the relabeler will not tell them.


That's wishful thinking, not to mention a possible waste of money. You will likely not be too pleased with the results, plus it can possibly damage your printer.

sooner or later


Refilling can save you depending on print volume from several hundred to several thousand dollars.

What a joke


I'm in the thousand dollar bracket. And it's tax free since it never leaves your wallet. Best of luck! Jim Robinson, wife Wendy, and two printaholic teens!

 

[measekite]

The vendor

I have used MIS bulk ink for many years. Everything you say above is
not true, at least with their ink.

Oh, then go to their website and see if they disclose who the
mfg/formulator is. Also call them up and ask them who the mfg/relabeler
is. Then report back with the information. If you do not then
everything I said is TRUE.

There is no quality difference, they last as long and head clogs have
been minimal Mine has been never
and I have always been able to unclog them. I figure in four years,
doing an average amount of printing, I have saved close to $2,000 in
ink costs.

What a joke. In 4 years I have not even come close to spending that.

 

[DK]

Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the empty
cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the ink and
refilling cost so much?

'Cause you are sponsoring millions that pay little for a printer
and buy little of that extra ink, opting for non-OEM catridges
or refill route instead. Plus - and more importantly - you are filling
pockets of many already very rich people who devised the scheme
of selling printers below their cost.

It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now becoming
an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down.

It may. But only if reality trumps marketing. Not a given.

Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into
the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one? Undoubtedly
the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has anyone done this?

With the right printer/ink combination, it is an exceedingly easy task.
Usually, there are some sacrifices in term of ink longevity, though.

DK

 

[Burt]

Today I paid over $40 for two dinky little ink cartridges. I bet the empty
cartridges cost no more than a $ or 2 to make, so why does the ink and
refilling cost so much?

It seems that the number of outfits refilling the cartridges is now
becoming
an epidemic. Maybe that will bring the price down.

Could ink be bought in bulk, say in 4 or 6 oz bottles and then loaded into
the cartridges when needed, or is that task a difficult one? Undoubtedly
the ink has to be carefully protected from the air. Has anyone done this?

TIA

RF

RF - many of us on this newsgroup refill our cartridges with good quality
aftermarket inks, make beautiful photo prints, and do no harm to our
printers. I see that many participants have responded and answered your
questions very well. Pay no attention to Measekite. He is our resident
troll who, for at least four years, has ranted against aftermarket inks and
cartridge refilling. He has never tried these products and seems to take
great pleasure in trying to dissuade someone like you from using anything
but OEM inks. In addition to reading through posts on this NG you should
also go to the Nifty-stuff forum and read through some of the info on
refilling to just get a bit of background. You can also go onto websites of
ink vendors and read the instructions they post on using their inks to
refill carts. You can also read Neil Slade's info on printers and inks.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html


My first effort to refill was a bit messy, but with a little practice and
experience you learn to work efficiently and neatly. I refill cartridges
for a Canon i960 and a Canon ip5000 with MIS inks, and I set up a friend for
refilling his ip5000 with Hobbicolor inks. Both have given good results.
Alotofthings sells Sensient Formulabs inks for Canon printers, and I have
friends who get excellent results with that ink as well. Unfortunately, the
latest Canon printers have a computer chip on each ink cartridge to
discourage refilling. It can still be done, but you lose your ink monitor
function and may have a problem with warranty issues if they relate to ink.
It doesn't really matter as far as I am concerned. You can buy a Canon
ip4300, a very decent inkjet printer, for under a hundred dollars online or
sometimes on a special sale. one set of new Canon OEM ink carts is about
$65 to $70 - nearly the price of the printer! If you were to only get two
sets of refills used before the printer died you would still have saved
enough to buy another printer. I've saved a few thousand dollars and
wouldn't be upset to have to buy another printhead or printer when the need
arises. My i960 is four years old and needed a new printhead after three
years of heavy use. the ip5000 is happily drinking MIS ink now after a year
and a half of moderate use.

 

[NotMe]

"measekite"

| Mine has been never
| > and I have always been able to unclog them. I figure in four years,
| > doing an average amount of printing, I have saved close to $2,000 in
| > ink costs.
|
| What a joke. In 4 years I have not even come close to spending that.

So you lack real, in depth, experience.

FWIW we go trough $75+ per month of EPSON ink at OEM cost. After market <
$20 so we're ahead $50 per month. 12 months X 50= $600 in four years
that's $2400 and that's just one studio (we have several).

As to the quality of the prints, we are a graphic arts studio. Image quality
is what we are about. We are far more critial in this regard than are our
clients.

 

[Frank]

measekite wrote:

------lying lunacy bullshit deleted------------

Hey...check yourself back into that mental institution you're somehow
managed to escape from, ok.
We're sick and tired of your constant lying. You lie about ink, paper,
printers and you have admitted you have no experience at all with after
market inks.
You're nothing but a very demented psychopathic liar!
Got that...you're nothing but a pathological liar!
Get lost.
Don't ever post in this ng again, ok?
Go!!!
Frank

 

[ilovefrankhobbicolor]

measekite wrote:

------lying lunacy bullshit deleted------------

Hey...check yourself back into that mental institution you're somehow
managed to escape from, ok.
We're sick and tired of your constant lying. You lie about ink, paper,
printers and you have admitted you have no experience at all with after
market inks.
You're nothing but a very demented psychopathic liar!
Got that...you're nothing but a pathological liar!
Get lost.
Don't ever post in this ng again, ok?
Go!!!
Frank

Frank and Measekite,

Get a life. Laser printers are the best!!!!!

Loving laser.....

 

[igfg]

FWIW we go trough $75+ per month of EPSON ink at OEM cost. After market <
$20 so we're ahead $50 per month. 12 months X 50= $600 in four years
that's $2400 and that's just one studio (we have several).

What is this "after market" you mention? Sorry I am not a native English
speaker.

Do you mean you use third party ink? If yes, of what brand?
I am very interested, since you are a graphic arts studio!

 

[NotMe]

"igfg" <[email protected]>

| > FWIW we go trough $75+ per month of EPSON ink at OEM cost. After
market <
| > $20 so we're ahead $50 per month. 12 months X 50= $600 in four years
| > that's $2400 and that's just one studio (we have several).
|
| What is this "after market" you mention? Sorry I am not a native English
| speaker.

Aftermarket is third party ink not sanctioned/approved by the printer
manufacture.

| Do you mean you use third party ink? If yes, of what brand?
| I am very interested, since you are a graphic arts studio!

Suppliers vary. Right now I'm holding ink by Ridisc and G&G in my hand.

Our standard printer are Epson and have been for years. We did a balance
test on using OEM (original equipment) and aftermarket ink over 12 to 18
months and found little difference in the work product. Also no noticeable
difference in the equipment failure rate. But I should qualify that last as
a very small sample.

All expenses included and assuming that the aftermarket in was somehow
reducing the functionality of the printers we save, on average, ~ $2000 per
year per studio.

We don't print archive work product so I have no knowledge of how long this
will last in the real world.

We print preliminary proofs on everyday stock for the most part.

We also print proofs for client approval but on better quality paper.

We also require printer galley proofs and have not noticed a significant
difference in what the printer sends and our client proofs. Perhaps I
should mention that we calibrate our displays, our printers and coordinate
these with the clients printers. But we did this with OEM ink as well as
there are variations there as well.

Grand kids print out tons of snap shots and so far no complaints in that
department.

| > As to the quality of the prints, we are a graphic arts studio. Image
quality
| > is what we are about. We are far more critical in this regard than are
our
| > clients.

 

[Printer Bob]

"igfg" <[email protected]>

| > FWIW we go trough $75+ per month of EPSON ink at OEM cost. After
market <
| > $20 so we're ahead $50 per month. 12 months X 50= $600 in four
| > years that's $2400 and that's just one studio (we have several).
|
| What is this "after market" you mention? Sorry I am not a native
| English speaker.

Aftermarket is third party ink not sanctioned/approved by the printer
manufacture.

Just to add that printer makers sanction only their own inks, mainly
for the huge profit it brings them.

| Do you mean you use third party ink? If yes, of what brand?
| I am very interested, since you are a graphic arts studio!

Suppliers vary. Right now I'm holding ink by Ridisc and G&G in my
hand.

Our standard printer are Epson and have been for years. We did a
balance test on using OEM (original equipment) and aftermarket ink
over 12 to 18 months and found little difference in the work product.
Also no noticeable difference in the equipment failure rate. But I
should qualify that last as a very small sample.

All expenses included and assuming that the aftermarket in was somehow
reducing the functionality of the printers we save, on average, ~
$2000 per year per studio.

If just 1,000 people in the world saved $2,000, that would be $2,000,000
out of printer maker's hands and into ours. And yet printer makers still
do not get the message to reduce the cost of ink. Their greed is greater
than their guilt. They blindly rather lose it to aftermarket suppliers
than reduce the price accordingly so we wouldn't have to buy aftermarket
inks. Dumb!

We don't print archive work product so I have no knowledge of how long
this will last in the real world.

We print preliminary proofs on everyday stock for the most part.

We also print proofs for client approval but on better quality paper.

We also require printer galley proofs and have not noticed a
significant difference in what the printer sends and our client
proofs. Perhaps I should mention that we calibrate our displays, our
printers and coordinate these with the clients printers. But we did
this with OEM ink as well as there are variations there as well.

Grand kids print out tons of snap shots and so far no complaints in
that department.

None here either. Been printing pictures and what have you for friends
for many, many years to rave reviews. They marvel at the fact that I use
aftermarket inks and produce such beautiful, lasting results for a
pittance.

 

[measekite]

Printer Bob wrote:

"NotMe" &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote in news:[email protected]:



"igfg" &lt;[email protected]&gt; | &gt; FWIW we go trough $75+ per month of EPSON ink at OEM cost. After market &lt; | &gt; $20 so we're ahead $50 per month. 12 months X 50= $600 in four | &gt; years that's $2400 and that's just one studio (we have several). | | What is this "after market" you mention? Sorry I am not a native | English speaker. Aftermarket is third party ink not sanctioned/approved by the printer manufacture.



Just to add that printer makers sanction only their own inks, mainly for the huge profit it brings them.


Now if you think about that statement it is really dumb.&nbsp; What do you think they are in business for.&nbsp; Of course they want to sell their own ink.&nbsp; It is also best.&nbsp; And yes the price is very expensive.






| Do you mean you use third party ink? If yes, of what brand?


There are no brands.&nbsp; The relabeler will not tell you what they are selling so you do not know the brand (mfg/formulator)


| I am very interested, since you are a graphic arts studio!


Not using the best materials is like screwing the customer.&nbsp;


Suppliers vary. Right now I'm holding ink by Ridisc and G&amp;G in my hand. Our standard printer are Epson and have been for years. We did a balance test on using OEM (original equipment) and aftermarket ink over 12 to 18 months and found little difference in the work product. Also no noticeable difference in the equipment failure rate. But I should qualify that last as a very small sample. All expenses included and assuming that the aftermarket in was somehow reducing the functionality of the printers we save, on average, ~ $2000 per year per studio.



If just 1,000 people in the world saved $2,000, that would be $2,000,000 out of printer maker's hands and into ours. And yet printer makers still do not get the message to reduce the cost of ink.


That is because 90% of the people are smart enough to use OEM ink because they remember why they bought the printer to print photos in the first place.


Their greed is greater than their guilt. They blindly rather lose it to aftermarket suppliers than reduce the price accordingly so we wouldn't have to buy aftermarket inks. Dumb!

Smart.&nbsp; If you look at their profits they are not losing anything.






We don't print archive work product so I have no knowledge of how long this will last in the real world. We print preliminary proofs on everyday stock for the most part. We also print proofs for client approval but on better quality paper. We also require printer galley proofs and have not noticed a significant difference in what the printer sends and our client proofs. Perhaps I should mention that we calibrate our displays, our printers and coordinate these with the clients printers. But we did this with OEM ink as well as there are variations there as well. Grand kids print out tons of snap shots and so far no complaints in that department.



None here either. Been printing pictures and what have you for friends for many, many years to rave reviews. They marvel at the fact that I use aftermarket inks and produce such beautiful, lasting results for a pittance.


Poeple who look at their friends pictures will marvel at any snapshot but people who look at their friends photographs will not.&nbsp; It is like the people who used to marvel at their friends Kodak Brownie snapshots.&nbsp; Most have never heard of a Nikon, Leica or Canon.