The stupidity continues. Now a very popular printer doesn't work right under Vista

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

If you want the operating system to agree with all your hardware, there is
an easy solution to have it "all work TOGETHER" .
Buy a new computer system from one of the major OEMs.
Then the OEM guarantees compatibility with everything you bought, similar to
buying a new car.
When you purchase individual components from various sources, it is up to
you the purchaser to make sure it will "all work TOGETHER".
If you purchase components instead of complete products, be prepared for the
necessary research.
That applies to almost anything you can purchase, not just computers.

"'cause you'll need all new hardware and software anyway"
NOT always true, but it is a myth the critics spread.
Some will but not all will need new.
Vista works great on my laptop and desktop.
The newest component between them is the nearly 2 year old video card in the
desktop.
Aero is missing in the laptop, but that is not an issue for me.
All my software works except Nero 6, but then Nero still does what I need.
More memory would be nice, but is not necessary.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Driver issues were pointed out in huge quantities to both Microsoft and the
manufacturer.
Microsoft also forwarded the appropriate information to the manufacturers.
What the manufacturer decides to do is entirely up to them.

 

[Adam Albright]

If you want the operating system to agree with all your hardware, there is
an easy solution to have it "all work TOGETHER" .
Buy a new computer system from one of the major OEMs.
Then the OEM guarantees compatibility with everything you bought, similar to
buying a new car.

You guys crack me up. Honestly you do, really. I've gone that route
before, then I started to build my own. Been doing that for at least
15 years. All the majors are guilty of cutting corners and literally
stuff JUNK into the boxes they "assemble" and there is no guarantee of
compatibility either. I still recall a Dell box I got way back. It was
"guaranteed" to be build to run with Windows 98. When I ordered it
wasn't available yet, got a certificate and that entitled me to a
Windows CD when it came out. I'll spare you all the details over what
I had to do to get it to work or the 2 different MB revisions they
sent me to "fix" what didn't work or tell you about some kid they sent
out to "install" the replacement MB and he couldn't even get the front
bezel off the damn computer case.

When you purchase individual components from various sources, it is up to
you the purchaser to make sure it will "all work TOGETHER".

Please explain how a end user KNOWS before putting the components
together if they will be compatible under a new OS? Take all the space
your need. Put your comments right here =====>

My last system I build near the end of last November. I made a point
of making SURE the hardware said it was "Vista Ready" or "build for
Vista" or any of the other marketing ploys used. Guess what. It was a
big fat lie. Those "ready" stickers mean diddlysquat. I first was able
to download XP/Vista controller drivers for the MB about a week ago
and those are only beta. Of course the Vista Advisor squealed like a
stuck pig running it on XP to check if my system was "ready" before I
update those drivers, so in spite of the MB stricker is was no way
"ready" for Vista. No surprise it still don't support SATA correctly
like it claims and even has issues with them under XP. That may be a
chipset issue due to Intel dropping the ball, still Vista can't see a
SATA external drive it did see originally running on a SATA channel
and BIOS still sees it and always has. That IS Microsoft's fault. The
only way now Vista "sees" this SATA drive is if I downgrade it to run
as a USB 2.0 device. Like I said, Windows did claim it "found and
installed new hardware" for it using a SATA channel and ran it if the
BIOS was set to IDE mode, but not any more.

Vista works great on my laptop and desktop.
The newest component between them is the nearly 2 year old video card in the
desktop.
Aero is missing in the laptop, but that is not an issue for me.
All my software works except Nero 6, but then Nero still does what I need.
More memory would be nice, but is not necessary.

So you're idea of "works" is having to disable hardware and turning
off software features. Well sorry, that isn't a option for me or
millions of others that use their computer in BUSINESS. You see when
you upgrade your system and the OS tells you hey go ahead, everything
looks fine, then if you are lucky enough to get past the clunky
installer process and actually get into Vista you see all the things
that don't work at all or have been crippled or are just plain broke.
That sir, makes you pissed. Obviously. Because you didn't upgrade your
PC, you actually downgraded it, paid $200 or more for the privlage and
now are expected to do without hardware or software you need that
worked fine under XP or run out and buy new and keep your fingers
crossed that will work.

 

[Adam Albright]

Driver issues were pointed out in huge quantities to both Microsoft and the
manufacturer.
Microsoft also forwarded the appropriate information to the manufacturers.
What the manufacturer decides to do is entirely up to them.

How much do MVP's get paid to be Microsoft apologists?

If Microsoft can't develop a stable THOROUGHLY TESTED updated OS in
five years time how many more years you think they will need?

 

[Richard Urban]

Buying a computer with Vista already installed on it by the manufacturer is
NOT the same as buying a new computer with Windows XP on it and getting an
upgrade certificate.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

Were you born thick, or do you have to practice at it?

Microsoft is not responsible for drivers except for their own hardware.

Do you really think that Apple supplies the drivers for that nifty HP
printer you married to a Mac - especially when the printer came out after
the operating system was introduced? HP is responsible.

You are now a troll!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[BobS]

Adam,

Sure don't have an answer for that - cause I can't remember a bug that I
could trace back to Win3.1.

Would appear though that you might be better off to drop back to WinXP for
awhile before you have a stroke over this. Enjoyed reading your comments as
I've said - but you need to take a break from it and relax a bit. It's
still only a computer.... I make my living off it also so I need to get
things worked out like everyone else that depends on them but no need to
blame the world for what I don't understand or can't figure out.

I've built, maintained, programmed and have had a love/hate relationship
with computer systems since the 60's and have made a decent living solving
problems as well as it being a hobby.

Oh yeah - I get frustrated but it's more of a frustration over what I don't
know about the problem and how to solve it then it is over who did what to
whom (MS, vendors). Throw some more time and money at it and the problem
disappears - eventually or it gets buried in the noise and forgotten. Put
it behind you and move on to the next problem that deserves your attention.

Bob S.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

You ASSUME a LOT.
The certificate was for an upgrade.
Did they make it right...eventually?
Or did you send it back within 30 days for a full refund as was your choice?
Within 30 days, you had the control with your choice.
What did you CHOOSE to do?

"there is no guarantee of compatibility"
Yes, there was, perhaps you CHOSE to pass on your rights and CHOSE to keep
the system.
Many others would have sent it back for a full refund...including shipping &
handling.

Also, who said "It was "guaranteed" to be build to run with Windows 98."
If Dell, it is not relevant here.

"Please explain how a end user KNOWS before putting"
Easy, research, similar as you would do before purchasing anything from
another source.

This applies to anything not just computers and software.
Or would you purchase a washer for a faucet and then complain to the seller
it does not fit your faucet when the seller made no such claims and you did
not check or look closely?
Those unable or unwilling to do the appropriate research should probably
stay with an OEM system.
During the research you will learn the meaning of such terms as "Ready",
Capable, Premium etc.
You will also determine how a guarantee applies to compatibility.
Know in advance who is responsible, not just who you want to be responsible.
Without that knowledge, you are setting yourself to fail from the beginning.

"is having to disable hardware and turning off software features"
I did nothing of the kind, another ASSUMPTION of yours?

"that isn't a option for me"
Then don't upgrade.
Once your research determines an upgrade is inappropriate, stop.
No one is forcing you to upgrade, it is your CHOICE.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"stable THOROUGHLY TESTED updated OS"
Since it is impossible to have perfect software, what you describe does not
apply to any operating system from any source and probably never will.
"five years" or fifty five years, you could achieve perfection with 10 times
the resources of any organization, Microsoft or any other.

Either:
1. You did not read my post
or
2. You have no understanding of who writes drivers and who is responsible
for drivers.

Anyone can take any length of time, if the hardware manufacturers choose to
wait or withhold support, there is nothing that can be done.

"How much do MVP's get paid..."
Nothing as you already know.
Why you insist on bringing up irrelevant topics is known only to you.
Perhaps to show your real agenda?

 

[Adam Albright]

You ASSUME a LOT.
The certificate was for an upgrade.
Did they make it right...eventually?

Actually not really.

Or did you send it back within 30 days for a full refund as was your choice?
Within 30 days, you had the control with your choice.
What did you CHOOSE to do?

"there is no guarantee of compatibility"
Yes, there was, perhaps you CHOSE to pass on your rights and CHOSE to keep
the system.
Many others would have sent it back for a full refund...including shipping &
handling.

Also, who said "It was "guaranteed" to be build to run with Windows 98."
If Dell, it is not relevant here.

Damn, everytime I think some MVP can't crawl further up Microsoft's
ass, somebody comes along and proves me wrong. Sadly you confirm my
previous impression of MVP's that I formed many years ago. Long on
talk, short on answers, always point the finger of blame away from
Microsoft. That was true 10 years ago, still true today.

 

[Adam Albright]

"stable THOROUGHLY TESTED updated OS"
Since it is impossible to have perfect software, what you describe does not
apply to any operating system from any source and probably never will.
"five years" or fifty five years, you could achieve perfection with 10 times
the resources of any organization, Microsoft or any other.

Either:
1. You did not read my post
or
2. You have no understanding of who writes drivers and who is responsible
for drivers.

Anyone can take any length of time, if the hardware manufacturers choose to
wait or withhold support, there is nothing that can be done.

"How much do MVP's get paid..."
Nothing as you already know.
Why you insist on bringing up irrelevant topics is known only to you.
Perhaps to show your real agenda?

I'm trying to find a reason why the typical MVP is a kiss ass to
Microsoft. Can you tell me why?

 

[Adam Albright]

Were you born thick, or do you have to practice at it?

Microsoft is not responsible for drivers except for their own hardware.

Do you really think that Apple supplies the drivers for that nifty HP
printer you married to a Mac - especially when the printer came out after
the operating system was introduced? HP is responsible.

You are now a troll!

You remain a Microsoft butt kisser.

 

[Richard Urban]

Better than being the fool that you are.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"Long on talk, short on answers"
And you avoided all my questions except the first which really was not an
answer.
So you are short on answers as well.

So in other words you did no research and needed someone to blame for the
failures you experienced because of it.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

And you continue to prove your insecurities.
The fact you need to insult others to make your point indicates your own
insecurity in your view.
You should leave this to others that share your view, they are here and
competant.
They are competent because they know and do not need to shore up their views
with pointless insults as you need.

Post back only to feed your own insecurity if it needs it.
Little other purpose will be served.
Good bye Adam.

 

[Adam Albright]

"Long on talk, short on answers"
And you avoided all my questions except the first which really was not an
answer.
So you are short on answers as well.

So in other words you did no research and needed someone to blame for the
failures you experienced because of it.

All the "answers" from MVP's are basically the same and fall into 3
categories:

1. don't upgrade now wait for the 1st Service Pack
2. rollback
3. do a clean install

I put the blame where it belongs. At the head of that list is
Microsoft, but of course some major hardware vendors have dropped the
ball as well.

Microsoft has had over 20 years to develop Windows and still haven't
released a version that isn't buggy, prone to crash, needs constant
updates, security patches and Service Packs. Plus Windows always has
done some of the most goofy things you can imagine. Vista adds to that
dubious list.

I see you still try to defend Microsoft. I keep asking you why, but
you never say why. How come?

Your feeble attempt to paint me as clueless is laughable. EVEYTHING in
the system I just build had a Vista ready sticker. The Vista Upgrade
Advisor approved the setup and told me and who knows how many others,
safe to upgrade. What a crock.

 

[Adam Albright]

And you continue to prove your insecurities.
The fact you need to insult others to make your point indicates your own
insecurity in your view.
You should leave this to others that share your view, they are here and
competant.
They are competent because they know and do not need to shore up their views
with pointless insults as you need.

Post back only to feed your own insecurity if it needs it.
Little other purpose will be served.
Good bye Adam.

Instead of attacking me I suggest you work on your web site. It REALLY
needs work.

 

[mikeyhsd]

why don't you put the blame where it really belongs.

ON YOU SHOULDERS.

with your claim of MANY years of experience you should know how to do things the CORRECT way or really the ALBRIGHT way.
if you fail at that they it is only yourself to blame.

the times I have cared to look into a dell or gateway there are MANY choices of BRANDED items to put into a computer, not just the initial el cheapo stuff.
you just LOVE to WHINE. guess you never really grew up from kindergarten.
and your habit of cursing at people is fast getting to NO help from anyone at all.


(e-mail address removed)@sport.rr.com

If you want the operating system to agree with all your hardware, there is
an easy solution to have it "all work TOGETHER" .
Buy a new computer system from one of the major OEMs.
Then the OEM guarantees compatibility with everything you bought, similar to
buying a new car.

You guys crack me up. Honestly you do, really. I've gone that route
before, then I started to build my own. Been doing that for at least
15 years. All the majors are guilty of cutting corners and literally
stuff JUNK into the boxes they "assemble" and there is no guarantee of
compatibility either. I still recall a Dell box I got way back. It was
"guaranteed" to be build to run with Windows 98. When I ordered it
wasn't available yet, got a certificate and that entitled me to a
Windows CD when it came out. I'll spare you all the details over what
I had to do to get it to work or the 2 different MB revisions they
sent me to "fix" what didn't work or tell you about some kid they sent
out to "install" the replacement MB and he couldn't even get the front
bezel off the damn computer case.

When you purchase individual components from various sources, it is up to
you the purchaser to make sure it will "all work TOGETHER".

Please explain how a end user KNOWS before putting the components
together if they will be compatible under a new OS? Take all the space
your need. Put your comments right here =====>

My last system I build near the end of last November. I made a point
of making SURE the hardware said it was "Vista Ready" or "build for
Vista" or any of the other marketing ploys used. Guess what. It was a
big fat lie. Those "ready" stickers mean diddlysquat. I first was able
to download XP/Vista controller drivers for the MB about a week ago
and those are only beta. Of course the Vista Advisor squealed like a
stuck pig running it on XP to check if my system was "ready" before I
update those drivers, so in spite of the MB stricker is was no way
"ready" for Vista. No surprise it still don't support SATA correctly
like it claims and even has issues with them under XP. That may be a
chipset issue due to Intel dropping the ball, still Vista can't see a
SATA external drive it did see originally running on a SATA channel
and BIOS still sees it and always has. That IS Microsoft's fault. The
only way now Vista "sees" this SATA drive is if I downgrade it to run
as a USB 2.0 device. Like I said, Windows did claim it "found and
installed new hardware" for it using a SATA channel and ran it if the
BIOS was set to IDE mode, but not any more.

Vista works great on my laptop and desktop.
The newest component between them is the nearly 2 year old video card in the
desktop.
Aero is missing in the laptop, but that is not an issue for me.
All my software works except Nero 6, but then Nero still does what I need.
More memory would be nice, but is not necessary.

So you're idea of "works" is having to disable hardware and turning
off software features. Well sorry, that isn't a option for me or
millions of others that use their computer in BUSINESS. You see when
you upgrade your system and the OS tells you hey go ahead, everything
looks fine, then if you are lucky enough to get past the clunky
installer process and actually get into Vista you see all the things
that don't work at all or have been crippled or are just plain broke.
That sir, makes you pissed. Obviously. Because you didn't upgrade your
PC, you actually downgraded it, paid $200 or more for the privlage and
now are expected to do without hardware or software you need that
worked fine under XP or run out and buy new and keep your fingers
crossed that will work.

 

[Adam Albright]

why don't you put the blame where it really belongs.

So many children here. If you can't handle the truth, stop reading my
posts. Think you can mannage that kid?

 

[BSchnur]

The payoff with the older laser jets was PCL 3, 4 or 5 support --
and/or Postscript support. That works fine for some newer printers as
well. It certainly made connecting and working with my LJ 4000
printers simple. Heck, the new Dell 3110cn in our network also works
with Vista -- now Dell provided Vista specific drivers for the printer,
but even without them, I'd have 'gotten away' with generic driver
support since the printer supports both PCL 6 and Postscript.

Where printer drivers get dicey are for printers that use the computer
CPU for processing, along with those ink jet printers which love to be
proprietary and model specific.

And then there are the driver issues with a whole raft of 'all-in-one'
multi function devices. I have always avoided those and recommended
against them with my clients.

When I see really solid and broad driver support for scanners, THEN
I'll know Vista driver support is ready.

Do I blame the manufacturers for this -- certainly in part. But
Microsoft has a 'piece of the pie' - lord knows they get a piece of the
revenue when they *push* out a new OS.