System died - Can OEM xp be used on new computer?


I

Ian Ferrin

It looks like the answer is no. It looks like, even
if you purchased a legit oem xp copy, you can't
ever use it if your original system dies? Even if
you only used the system for a year before the mobo
fried? The system is out of warranty.
(I'd be happy to mail the dead mobo to anyone for proof).

I am screwed? Correct?

Thanks in advance.

Ian
 
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M

Michael Stevens

Ian Ferrin said:
It looks like the answer is no. It looks like, even
if you purchased a legit oem xp copy, you can't
ever use it if your original system dies? Even if
you only used the system for a year before the mobo
fried? The system is out of warranty.
(I'd be happy to mail the dead mobo to anyone for proof).

I am screwed? Correct?

Thanks in advance.

Ian
Click on the link below, or copy and paste the link into the address box
if using the web based newsgroup.
OEM Clarification
http://michaelstevenstech.com/oemeula.htm
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
I

Ian Ferrin

I thought I was out of luck.

Thanks for at least giving me no doubt. :-;

I'm sure I'm not the first to be stranded
with a mobo that craps out early.

Ian
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

There are some very important reasons that an OEM license costs so
much less than a retail license. OEM licenses are very limited:

1) OEM versions must be sold with a piece of hardware (normally
a motherboard or hard drive, if not an entire PC, although Microsoft
has greatly relaxed the hardware criteria for WinXP) and are
_permanently_ bound to the first PC on which they are installed. An
OEM license, once installed, is not legally transferable to another
computer under any circumstances. This is the main reason some people
avoid OEM versions; if the PC dies or is otherwise disposed of (even
stolen), you cannot re-use your OEM license on a new PC. The only
legitimate way to transfer the ownership of an installed OEM license
is to transfer ownership of the entire PC.

2) Microsoft provides no free support for OEM versions. If you
have any problems that require outside assistance, your only recourse
is to contact the manufacturer/builder of the PC or the vendor of the
OEM license. This would include such issues as lost a Product Key or
replacing damaged installation media. (Microsoft does make allowances
for those instances when you can prove that the OEM has gone out of
business.) This doesn't mean that you can't download patches and
service packs from Microsoft -- just no free telephone or email
support for problems with the OS.

3) An OEM CD cannot be used to perform an upgrade of an earlier
OS, as it was designed to be installed _only_ upon an empty hard
drive. It can still be used to perform a repair installation (a.k.a.
an in-place upgrade) of an existing WinXP installation.

4) If the OEM CD was designed by a specific manufacturer, such as
eMachines, Sony, Dell, Gateway, etc., it will most likely only install
on the same brand/model of PC, as an additional anti-piracy feature.
Further, such CDs are often severely customized to contain only the
minimum of device drivers, and a lot of extra nonsense, that the
manufacturer feels necessary for the specific model of PC for which
the CD was designed. (To be honest, such CDs should _not_ be
available on the open market; but, if you're shopping someplace like
eBay, swap meets, or computer fairs, there's often no telling what
you're buying until it's too late.) The "generic" OEM CDs, such as
are manufactured by Microsoft and sold to small systems builders,
don't have this particular problem, though, and are pretty much the
same as their retail counterparts, apart from the licensing, support,
and upgrading restrictions.


Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
I

Ian Ferrin

Bruce Chambers said:
an OEM license costs so much less than a retail license.
1) OEM versions ...are _permanently_ bound to
the first PC on which they are installed.
$160 for a year's worth of work on a crappy athlon system
who's mobo fried after a year of intermittent failures.

With Draconian piracy rules, microsoft needs to have
Draconian oversight over who they allow to be OEM vendors.

Ian
 
I

Ian Ferrin

P.S.

Thanks for your reply anyway. I value being
able to get help in these newsgroups.

I'm just grumpy.

Ian
 
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J

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

Ian;
I am not sure about the rules being Draconian.
The problem is the sellers who sell OEM software in a way not
originally intended by Microsoft.
Because of demand, Microsoft relaxed the rules and now any type of
hardware such as a power cord qualifies for purchase of OEM software.
When OEM is sold as intended with a computer, this is less confusing.

I see the major fault as the seller not being upfront about the
disadvantages of OEM.
They want to make the sale and appear to give a good price but as you
found out there may be a hidden cost.
Another secondary problem is we do not always ask "Why is this
cheaper?" This assumes the seller will be honest if asked the
question.
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

Nothing draconian about it at all.

The restriction makes perfect sense. An OEM license costs
considerably less than the equivalent retail license. As with all
things in life, with that reduced cost comes fewer features and fewer
options. You get what you pay for. TNSTAAFL.


Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
I

Ian Ferrin

Bruce Chambers said:
As with all things in life, with that reduced cost
comes fewer features and fewer options. You get what you pay for.
Tell that to Netscape!

Spending $160 on an OS shouldn't involve a Gamble that it'll
be worthless in a year.

Ian

PS - You're talking to one of the 'good guys'. I have no pirated
software, music or anything on my system.
 
I

Ian Ferrin

Bruce Chambers said:
You get what you pay for.

I'd agree - in many instances.

But this isn't exactly a statement of absolute truth.

Often, you pay for whatever they can get!

Ian
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

You are in an unfortunate position, and you're understandably
frustrated. The short life-span of your OS's license is the fault of
the PC manufacturer whose hardware barely out-lasted the warranty
period. Did you see about getting a replacement motherboard from the
PC's manufacturer? Then your OEM license would still be good.


Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
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I

Ian Ferrin

Just out of curiosity,

I bought the system from liquiddaw.com a one man business
that makes computers for musicians. It was a 'lemon' athlon
system that received 2 major servicings (w/ associated downtime)
in the 1st year. After the year warranty was up, liquiddaw stopped
responding to my emails. At this point I've had 2 crappy athlon
systems and 0 bad intel systems (6 or 7). I'll be hard pressed to
ever go w/ AMD again, anyway.

When I went to install sp1, I had to do a repair
install because, although I had a legit copy of xp pro oem,
liquiddaw had installed xp using a manufactures generic product
key. The repair install allowed me to input my legit product key
and upgrade to sp1.

Given this history, is there any chance that after that 120 day
reset, the this pre-sp1 version of xp pro 2002 is 'reset' so it
can be installed again?. The dead computer has been so for
approx. 10 months now.

Thanks for your kind response,

Ian
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

This information does shed a different light on the matter. Now
we're getting into a "grey" area where not even all MVP's are in
agreement. I can only give you my opinion here.

As I've said, according to the EULA, an OEM license may not be
transferred from one distinct PC to another PC. However, this most
emphatically does not prohibit one from repairing/upgrading the
original PC. To my mind, replacing a defective motherboard certainly
falls under the category of "repair."

Now, some people believe that the motherboard is the key component
that defines the "original computer," but the OEM EULA does not make
any such distinction. Others have said that one could successfully
argue that it's the PC's case that is the deciding component, as that
is where one is instructed to affix the OEM CoA label w/Product Key.
Again, the EULA does not specifically define any single component as
the computer.

Microsoft has, to date, been very careful _not_ publicly to define
when an incrementally upgraded computer ceases to be the original
computer. The closest I've ever seen a Microsoft employee come to
this definition is to tell the person making the inquiry to consult
the PC's manufacturer. As the OEM license's support is solely the
responsibility of said manufacturer, they should determine what sort
of hardware changes to allow before the warranty and support
agreements are voided. To paraphrase: An incrementally upgraded
computer ceases to be the original computer, as pertains to the OEM
EULA, only when the *OEM* says it's a different computer. Of course,
taken to extremes, this position also implies that, once the OEM
warranty expires, so does the OEM license. As this is so patently
absurd, that it doesn't really bare consideration.

If "liquiddaw.com" used a generic OEM installation CD, as seems
likely to have been the case for a small system builder, as opposed to
the BIOS-locked CD used by the major OEMS like HP, Compaq, or Dell,
there's no technical reason that you can't simply replace/upgrade the
motherboard and CPU. As you've surmised, there should be no issue
with the subsequent activation.

So, _my_ recommendation would be, rather than replacing the entire
computer, for you to take that PC to another shop (or do it yourself -
it's hardly rocket surgery) and have the motherboard & CPU replaced.

Now, about that irrational fear of AMD CPUs..... ;-} Seriously,
I suspect the problems you've had with AMDs are more the result of
poor motherboards or inadequate cooling, then the result of bad chip
design. I've used both AMD and Intel processors in my own machines,
and I support a large (hundreds, iow) mixture of both at work. The
only substantive differences I've encountered between the two is that
AMD's are significantly less expensive than the equivalent Pentium
CPUs, and they require better cooling to last as long as Pentiums.
Since the fact that AMDs run "hotter" than Intel chips is well-known
to competent technicians and systems builders, this usually isn't an
issue. But there's nothing wrong with the Pentium chips, either, so
the choice boils down to a matter of taste, and your taste will
naturally be colored by your experiences.


Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
I

Ian Ferrin

Thanks Bruce,

I think I'll give a try installing the old xp pro. I'll try to activate
online asap. If it doesn't "take" I'll just reformat and buy
another copy of xp.

Re. Athlons, I was well aware of the AMD/heat issue. The
defunct computer was in a koolance water cooled case.

There's a number of musicians who swear by intel and only
swear at AMD. It seems to be a reliability thing.

It seems like there's always an issue or two in getting a system
into optimum performance. But once there (going back to an
8mhz xt), I've never had an intel system crap out.

Perceptions can be brutal!

Thanks for your detailed and sympathetic response,

Ian
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

You're welcome. Good luck.

Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
R

Robert Kopp

Ian Ferrin said:
There's a number of musicians who swear by intel and only
swear at AMD. It seems to be a reliability thing.
I have an AMD processor and I've never had any trouble with it. (I thought
I'd mention it, though it is not the central issue here.)

Robert T. Kopp
http://analytic.tripod.com/
 
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M

Mike Hall

Robert Kopp said:
I have an AMD processor and I've never had any trouble with it. (I thought
I'd mention it, though it is not the central issue here.)

Robert T. Kopp
http://analytic.tripod.com/
Looking at your website, I assume that the first pic is a self-portrait.. it
is not the most flattering angle that a pic can be taken..
 

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