Symantec and a Repair Installation

[billurie]

I attempted to use Symantec's "Copy Drive" capability,
part of their GHOST 10, which uses the PowerQuest Drive
Image 7 software. Both failed the same way, in that the
copy hangs at the light blue Windows logo screen during
boot up. Obviously their copy process failed to copy the
boot record properly. If others have found GHOST 10 to
copy a complete OS and achieve a bootable copy, I'd be
interested in hearing about how you did it.

Their latest cop-out on this is:

"You can boot from the Windows XP installation disk and
press F10 or R to repair the Windows installation."

If that has a chance of fixing the problem, I'd like more
specific details on that procedure. No Repair Installation
procedure that I've seen refers to F10. Thank you.

 

[Guest]

Welcome to the club Bill. I just went through a problem with Symantec's
wonderful software too. One of their updates to NAV 2006 seems to have
damaged a system file. I could no longer get Windows to start. So...I went
for my Ghost 10 Image. I couldn't get it to work either! It's a spanned set
and would not rebuild in Ghost's Image Browser. I tried Symantec's "Help
Idiots". Cruel, cruel, cruel.

Anyhow, yes, you can boot from your WinXP disk. You then have the choice of
booting into the "Emergency Repair Console" which is very powerful if you
know how to use DOS. Or you can choose install and then do a "Repair
Reinstall". I chose to try the Repair Reinstall. It worked properly. It
restored Windows and did not loose any of my data. It did mess up a few of my
customized settings though. And I did have to reinstall a few drivers which
had originally come from my Dell Resource disk. I also had to reinstall SP2
and a bunch of MS patches and updates.


Before you start, do yourself a favor and read a few articles on Repair
Reinstall. Do a Google search for "Repair Reinstall Windows XP". But if you
can't, just boot from your Windows XP disk, choose "Install" and then repair
reinstall. You may have to change your boot sequence to start from the CD.

Good luck,
Milt

 

[billurie]

Thanks, Milt. I see we're walking in similar tracks...
and in Symantec's doo-doo. I won't go through the full "Repair Install"
procedure for several reasons. Takes too many hours to do that, plus
the hours for SP2, and one more: I have a tenuous relationship with
Microsoft regarding my Product Key. I've had experience in the past,
that I've had to "reactivate" (horror #1), and, by the way, similarly
with Symantec in my Norton System Works 2006 Premier. By the way, under
instruction from Symantec, I did try the Recovery Console, and FIXMBR,
but nothing solved the problem as described...can't get it to either
"Welcome" or "Loading your personal settings"...../Bill L./

 

[DL]

For repair install info
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm
You can also create a slipstreamed winxp cd, containing latest sp
Autostreamer
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=223562

 

[Guest]

Recently went through similar challenges with Symantec Help. I found that
they DO have knowledgable personnel but you do not get those persons on the
first attempt. If the "analyst" you first get offers silly or irrelevent
advice, ask that your problem be "escalated". They will do this immediatley
upon request. Though it might involve some wait time to access the "upper
tier" analysts, I have found it is worth it.

Stick to your guns.

Mark

 

[billurie]

Hey, Mark, that's a great idea, and thanks for
the suggestion.

But I'm still hoping to hear from people who have
successfully used GHOST 10 in "Copy Drive" mode
to clone a hard drive as a backup.//Bill//

Recently went through similar challenges with Symantec Help. I found that
they DO have knowledgable personnel but you do not get those persons on the
first attempt. If the "analyst" you first get offers silly or irrelevent
advice, ask that your problem be "escalated". They will do this immediatley
upon request. Though it might involve some wait time to access the "upper
tier" analysts, I have found it is worth it.

Stick to your guns.

Mark

 

[Glen]

I use Ghost 10 and have had no problem. I am not sure I understand exactly
what you have done as you say ""Copy Drive" mode to clone a hard drive as a
backup". You clone a hard drive when, for instance, you are installing a
larger drive and you want to move your Windows installation over to the new
drive. You would then erase the old drive. For backing up you would make an
image of the old drive and usually compress it to save space. The reason I
bring it up is to understand what you have done to try and help.

If the boot record is damaged and I dont think it is or you wouldn't get to
the Windows loading part. If it is damaged you can boot off the Windows
installation media and boot to the recovery console and run "fixboot". Its
worth trying but I think the problem is corrupt files which happened during
the copy process. Read the Microsoft web page listed below for how to start
the recovery console from the Windows media.

Tell me what you were trying to accomplish and either me or someone else try
and tell you the best way to achieve it. Were you trying to make a backup of
Windows? Were you trying to restore a backup of Windows? Did you clone
Windows to a second hard drive\partition and end up with two installations.
Were you trying to restore Windows from a second installation on a second
hard drive\partition. Cloning a drive a imaging a drive are two similar but
different things.

Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314058/

 

[billurie]

I use Ghost 10 and have had no problem. I am not sure I understand exactly
what you have done as you say ""Copy Drive" mode to clone a hard drive as a
backup". You clone a hard drive when, for instance, you are installing a
larger drive and you want to move your Windows installation over to the new
drive. You would then erase the old drive. For backing up you would make an
image of the old drive and usually compress it to save space. The reason I
bring it up is to understand what you have done to try and help.

If the boot record is damaged and I dont think it is or you wouldn't get to
the Windows loading part. If it is damaged you can boot off the Windows
installation media and boot to the recovery console and run "fixboot". Its
worth trying but I think the problem is corrupt files which happened during
the copy process. Read the Microsoft web page listed below for how to start
the recovery console from the Windows media.

Tell me what you were trying to accomplish and either me or someone else try
and tell you the best way to achieve it. Were you trying to make a backup of
Windows? Were you trying to restore a backup of Windows? Did you clone
Windows to a second hard drive\partition and end up with two installations.
Were you trying to restore Windows from a second installation on a second
hard drive\partition. Cloning a drive a imaging a drive are two similar but
different things.

Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314058/

I'll try to be brief.
I and the software are good at making a Drive Image which
can be Recovered to recreate a Clone of the original Drive.
Old Drive Image 7 did that, and new Ghost 10 does it a bit
more handily. My goal is to be able to create a clone of
the full Master partition, containing OS plus all my apps,
basically for backup purposes. I can, via a Drive Image.

PowerQuest and now Symantec offer a "Copy Drive" capability,
which purportedly should do exactly the same thing, in one
pass......an exact copy, a clone, which should boot like
the Master and be indistinguishable. So I've spent a lot
of time and effort, and many go-arounds with their techies,
and they still claim it can be done. The words in their
instructions are "When upgrading or adding a second hard
drive, copy all existing files, programs, and settings
directly onto the new drive". They finally gave up on trying
to guide me into making the 'copy' boot like the master, and
referred me to.........Microsoft.

Functionally, I don't need it, but if it does work, one step
is easier than two. I'm willing to drop it as something
Symantec claims but doesn't have, and would rather sweep under
the rug.

 

[Glen]

You want to clone your hard drive as a backup. Is there any reason you dont
want to make an image? The only reason I ask is an image can be compressed
and updated regularly which keeps the backup current. A cloned drive would
not be current unless you make daily clones. It is always quicker to make an
image, then backup only the files that have changed.

I have cloned drives and never had problems and its hard for me to know what
to tell you as you have already spoke to Symantec. I would guess they have
talked you through the whole cloning process.

First off I have to say you would be better off imaging it. Having said that
if you want to clone the drive to a second drive what happens when you clone
it? Does it complete without errors? Are you cloning to a second hard drive
or a second partition. Is it a primary partition or logical drive. I'm just
trying to completely understand what your doing.

Once you have cloned it. If cloning to a second hard drive disconnect the
first. Make sure the new cloned drive is setup as master and reboot. What
happens?

 

[billurie]

I'll answer interspersed below, Glen...and thanks!

You want to clone your hard drive as a backup. Is there any reason you dont
want to make an image? The only reason I ask is an image can be compressed
and updated regularly which keeps the backup current. A cloned drive would
not be current unless you make daily clones. It is always quicker to make an
image, then backup only the files that have changed.

Yes, I do the 'drive image' thing regularly and successfully.
I want to do the copy/clone thing "because it's there", it's
built into GHOST 10 by Symantec and is supposed to work, and
it's like Mount Everest....it's there, and I want to climb it.
And I want to keep Symantec honest.

I have cloned drives and never had problems and its hard for me to know what
to tell you as you have already spoke to Symantec. I would guess they have
talked you through the whole cloning process.

The process is simple and straightforward.

First off I have to say you would be better off imaging it. Having said that
if you want to clone the drive to a second drive what happens when you clone
it? Does it complete without errors?

I do the "Copy Drive"...to a Slave Drive identical with my Master, to
the first and only partition on the drive. It completes without errors,
and when I reset BIOS to boot the copy, it boots fine. Then I remove
both drives, jumper the 'copy' to be 'master or single', put it on
the IDE cable alone, in 'single or master' position, reset BIOS to
boot from that drive (having all jumpers set appropriately at all
times), and it boots, past BIOS, past black Windows Logo screen, past
black screen with pointer, past black screen with pointer and hour-
glass, to light blue Windows Logo screen......where it *hangs*. It
never says Welcome, and never says 'Loading your personal settings'.

Are you cloning to a second hard drive

or a second partition. Is it a primary partition or logical drive. I'm just
trying to completely understand what your doing.

Yes, to a second hard drive, Primary partition, and Active.

Once you have cloned it. If cloning to a second hard drive disconnect the
first. Make sure the new cloned drive is setup as master and reboot. What
happens?

I covered that above.
Let me say that I have kept after Symantec on why following their
instructions exactly doesn't work. They have given me fix after
fix to try, Recovery Console, FIXMBR, even made me try a boot
disk from Windows 98SE......nothing works. I refused to do an
"In-place Upgrade of Windows" or a "Repair Installation" for
numerous reasons, not the least of which is Microsoft's re-activation
or validation, which is always touch-and-go. Their latest plan
is for me to use Microsoft's "SYSPREP" to 'Prepare my hard drive
for cloning', but I don't have usable instructions for that yet.
As you may have gathered, I have enough time to experiment
with these things, and I also have a strong feeling that when
a vendor like Symantec sells you a product........it should do
what they promise for it. I just won't let them be a "cheat-'em-
and-run" outfit.

 

[Glen]

The only thing you can do is boot from the XP CD to the recovery console and
run "fixboot" and "fixmbr". That is all that is left. This all assumes that
everything you have tried before has been done properly.

If, and I expect you have already tried the above, the above doesn't work
you might have to take the computer to someone who does it for a living. The
reason I say this, and dont take it the wrong way, is I have been to a few
jobs where I am told what I am about to do has already been tried by the
owner. However, when I do it the problem is solved. The only thing I can
think is the owner is doing it wrong. This might be happening to you. You
think you are covering everything but are missing something.

 

[billurie]

The only thing you can do is boot from the XP CD to the recovery console and
run "fixboot" and "fixmbr". That is all that is left. This all assumes that
everything you have tried before has been done properly.

If, and I expect you have already tried the above, the above doesn't work
you might have to take the computer to someone who does it for a living. The
reason I say this, and dont take it the wrong way, is I have been to a few
jobs where I am told what I am about to do has already been tried by the
owner. However, when I do it the problem is solved. The only thing I can
think is the owner is doing it wrong. This might be happening to you. You
think you are covering everything but are missing something.

I read you, Glen, and I'm not offended. It's like
the carpenter who said "Hmmmm, I've cut some off that leg of
the chair three times and it's still too short".

 

[Guest]

Hey, I've just suffered the same problem tonight when I was trying to migrate
my drive to a new larger one. Eventually I fixed the problem rather simply.
It all boiled down in my case to Windows getting confused with drive
lettering. When booting up with only the new drive and my SATA one (which has
linux on) in it would see the new drive as both the C: drive and the letter
it previously had attatched to it when the old C: drive was stil in the
system (in this case S.

Now I could have just deleted the entry in the registry on the old C drive
and done another copy but I decided to be fancy and booted up with new drive
as a slave and the old drive as primary, went into XP and used regedit to
import the 'system' file in C:\Windows\System32\Config as a hive. I then went
in to the registry key <NameOfImportedHive>\System\MountedDevices and deleted
the \DosDevices\S: value. Next step was to Unload the Hive from the registry
then power down the sytem, remove the old drive set the new drive back to
primary again and boot successfully into Windows XP.

I wont mention how many times I had to repair the GRUB boot loader for linux
during that.

If you want to do it the long way (ie. before you do the copy using Ghost)
the registry key you want will be hiding in
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices just remember to reboot before you
Ghost. Another way round would be not to assign a drive letter when you
create the partition I guess, think Ghost sees the drives independent of them
having a letter assigned (my Linux partitions for example).

I know it's been a month and you probably aren't reading this thread by now
but if by some chance you still are and it works then please let me know.

Jonathan Burgess (who left himself a free 25GB partition on his new drive
which he's going to install the Vista beta on and probably screw his boot
loader up even more)