Swapping HDs in Computer that Have the Same Windows Partition Setups

S

Sam

I have only one computer and so am rather restricted in trying different
software programs, especially data and image backup programs. I have a Dell
Dimension 8200 computer with windows XP Pro (SP2). What I would like to do
if possible, is to remove the current HD (C: Drive) and install a new HD to
be used as C: drive. Rather, than install all of the software programs from
scratch on this new HD, I would try to accomplish a C: drive partition
restore with my image backup program (PowerQuest (now Symantec) V2i
Protector Desktop Edition). By trying this, I will be able to tell if the
image backup program works as it should, and secondly, I would have this
second HD to use for testing any new software that is of interest. If I
like the new software and it works without any difficulty, I could then
install it on the first HD. If the new software causes some major damage to
this second HD setup, I could then easily accomplish a partition image
restore to correct the problem, knowing that I still have the original HD
for my normal important computer activity.

Would the above work with having two HDs with the same windows XP Pro and
applicable software? Would the computer BIOS be confused by seeing the
change of two different HDs that have almost the same system programs? Any
thoughts, suggestions, and help would be very much appreciated, Sam.
 
G

Guest

I have not worked with the Powerquest backup tool, but it should work. The
system will not be confused by "similar" software on 2 drives. The System
itself sees them as "drive 0" and "drive 1". Once XP boots, the system will
assign drive 0 as C:\ and drive 1 as D:\ or E:\ depending on how you set the
cabling and jumpers.

Rich
 
S

Sam

Rich, thanks very much for your reply. I should have been more clear in my
original email as to my computer setup. I currently have two physical HDs
installed in my computer, the primary HD drive for windows and applications,
and the second HD for storing data and image backups for the primary HD.

My desire is to always leave the second data HD in the computer and only
remove the original primary HD when I want to try out some new software.
Most of the time, the original primary HD will be left in the computer for
daily operations and will only be physically removed when needing to
physically install the second duplicate primary HD for checking out new
software. Even though I will not have two primary HDs installed at any one
time, I am hoping that the physically swapping back and forth of these
primary HDs will not confuse the computer BIOS. That was one of my primary
concerns. Thanks again, Sam.
 
R

Ron Sommer

Have you checked your Bios to see if you can choose which hard drive to
boot?
 
S

Sam

Ron, thanks for your reply. Good question about the BIOS!! I think it does
give an option, but my memory is pretty bad. Will check the BIOS tomorrow
morning. I should note that I don't plan to install both HDs together
(original and duplicate) on the computer at the same time. It will be
either original HD or the duplicate HD installed on the computer, but not
both. The second physical HD which is for my data and backup image files,
will always stay in the computer and so I will have room for only one other
HD which would be the primary HD. Thanks again, Sam.


Ron Sommer said:
Have you checked your Bios to see if you can choose which hard drive to
boot?
[/QUOTE]
 
A

Alex Nichol

Sam said:
Would the above work with having two HDs with the same windows XP Pro and
applicable software? Would the computer BIOS be confused by seeing the
change of two different HDs that have almost the same system programs? Any
thoughts, suggestions, and help would be very much appreciated, Sam.

That would work; provided you remember that the second drive would need
the MBR code added to it. But the copy made on the second drive would
need its boot.ini file amended so it was referring to the correct
(absolute) location of the drive, in the disk(n)rdisk(m)partitition(x)
bit, or it will complacently complete the boot - from the *first* drive.
And then the registry's HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\Mounted Devices would
need to have the DOSDevices lines cleared out and allowed to rebuild

I think you might find it confusing yourself having both systems
visible. What I would (and do - though I have both partitions on the
primary physical disk) is use an external Boot Manager to boot either
system and hide the other. Boot Magic, which you may have got along
with your ex-Partition Magic software would do it. I actually use
BootIT NG, from http://www.BootitNG.com ($35 shareware - 30 day full
functional trial) - which also does all my Partition management.
That one has the benefit that you can not merely hide the partition you
are not using, but also adjust the order in which the partitions appear
(being on the same disk) so that both see themselves as partition(1) on
booting and hence those other possible confusions do not arise
 
J

John Butler

Sam,

You CAN have two disks with identical installations if you set the
configuration carefully and use appropriate software to make the copy
installation. I use such a setup for creating daily backups for very quick
recovery of individual files and folders or quick recovery from a current
unrecoverable Windows crash.
[ This is in addition to and not a substitute for full system images on an
external hard drive which can be stored off-site for disaster recovery.]

I use CasperXP to copy the master drive [ C:, disk 0] to the slave drive
[D:, disk 1]. In the event of a total crash I can switch the boot order in
the bios from 0,1 to 1,0 check out any problems then copy the slave back to
the master and reboot again in 0,1 sequence.
There are some caveats.
The copy must be fully up to date, there must not have been any
installations on the original since the copy was made.
There must not be any utility operations scheduled on the original (E.G.
defrag, NAV liveupdate) at a later time than the copy was made. This method
deals with objection mentioned by Alex in an earlier post

NB you must use a specialist utility to make the clone, you cannot copy over
from Windows or make a second installation of Windows. To be sure that you
have got the setup correct after the first copy, print out the boot.ini file
you will find in the root of C: and the root of D:. They must be identical.
I could go into more detail about the syntax for boot.ini but I think this
is not the place.

When you return to the restored Master disk if you may find that Norton
Antivirus reports that it's license is expired. This is solved by running
Live Update

John
 
S

Sam

TO Alex and John, thanks very much for your replies.

Sorry that my emails have not been clear as to what I am trying to do. My
plan is NOT to have both primary HDs physically installed on the computer at
the same time. When I get the new HD, I will physically remove the existing
primary HD (original or working primary system HD with windows XP Prof) and
then install the new HD. I will accomplish a recovery restore of a current
backup image file to the new HD, using the V2i Protector Desktop Edition
program. At this time, I will then have two primary HDs: the new duplicate
HD having the same primary windows system and applications software setup as
the original primary HD. For normal every day computer activity, I will use
the original primary HD.

When I want to try out new software, I will then physically remove the
original primary HD and install the duplicate (new) HD. If the new software
causes major damage to the duplicate primary HD, I will then accomplish a
recovery restore of a current backup image file. This way I will have
protected my original primary HD from being trashed by some bad software.
Once I am finished and want every day normal computer operations, I will
then physically remove the duplicate primary HD and install the original
primary HD. If the new software that I checked out is good, then I will
install it on the original primary HD as well.

My concern is, will this physically swapping these two HDs back and forth,
confuse the computer BIOS?? I had planned to get a new Seagate HD but
decided against it and will purchase the same HD brand and size as the
primary HD now installed on the computer (Western Digital). The second data
HD on my computer is Western Digital as well. Thanks again for your help,
Sam.
 
A

Art

Sam said:
TO Alex and John, thanks very much for your replies.

Sorry that my emails have not been clear as to what I am trying to do. My
plan is NOT to have both primary HDs physically installed on the computer
at the same time. When I get the new HD, I will physically remove the
existing primary HD (original or working primary system HD with windows XP
Prof) and then install the new HD. I will accomplish a recovery restore
of a current backup image file to the new HD, using the V2i Protector
Desktop Edition program. At this time, I will then have two primary HDs:
the new duplicate HD having the same primary windows system and
applications software setup as the original primary HD. For normal every
day computer activity, I will use the original primary HD.

When I want to try out new software, I will then physically remove the
original primary HD and install the duplicate (new) HD. If the new
software causes major damage to the duplicate primary HD, I will then
accomplish a recovery restore of a current backup image file. This way I
will have protected my original primary HD from being trashed by some bad
software. Once I am finished and want every day normal computer
operations, I will then physically remove the duplicate primary HD and
install the original primary HD. If the new software that I checked out
is good, then I will install it on the original primary HD as well.

My concern is, will this physically swapping these two HDs back and forth,
confuse the computer BIOS?? I had planned to get a new Seagate HD but
decided against it and will purchase the same HD brand and size as the
primary HD now installed on the computer (Western Digital). The second
data HD on my computer is Western Digital as well. Thanks again for your
help, Sam.


Sam:
May I suggest an alternate strategy for your objective? Assuming your
desktop computer has two available 5 1/4" bays, i.e., vacant bays that you
can utilize, equip your computer with two removable hard drives in their
mobile racks. It's an ideal hardware configuration for what you want to
achieve. By equipping your computer in this fashion you will, for all
practical purposes, be able to easily maintain a near fail-safe backup
system and at the same time be able to experiment with different programs
and configurations with the full realization that should anything go awry
you will be able to return to your original system and configuration in an
instant. And accomplish all this from the comfort of your computer chair
with no need to get inside your computer case to make cable/power
disconnects and connects. It's close to an ideal system for many, if not
most, desktop computer users and I can virtually guarantee that once you
begin working with this arrangement you'll never want to return to the "old"
way. It's that good.

If you are interested, I can provide details re configuring your desktop
computer with two removable hard drives.
Art
 
J

John Butler

Sam,

The answer is "Yes". Your plan with V2i will result in the disks either
crashing or being linked.

What is object of your mission?

If you want to test software you should create a VIRTUAL machine within your
system idential to the physical configuration for testing purposes. If it
crashes wipe it out and create a new one ready for the next test.

If you want the security of a valid hard disk stored safely away from the
work site you should use an external hard drive, for example an Iomega [EHDD
160GB
not very costly now adays]

You should do with out all the screwdriver and scanner paraphanalia which
will surely lead to grief. Be a phsyicain not a surgeon.

John
 
S

Sam

TO John and Art, thanks much for your replies. Art, what little I
understand about mobile HD racks, your suggestion and explanation sounds
like it would more than easily satisfy what I am looking for!! I am
definitely interested and would appreciate any details that you can provide
for reconfiguring my computer with two removable HDs.

My computer setup is two physical HDs on the primary IDE channel and a
DVD-ROM and Plextor 712A burner on the secondary IDE channel. If I remember
correctly, I used the last PCI slot when installing the Adaptec Duo USB
card. I believe but I need to check, I have only one vacant 51/4 bay left
on the computer. Art, does my computer setup appear to be something that
might allow the use of the mobile racks??

Again, to all who replied to my emails, thanks very much. I always learn so
much from the information posted on these newsgroups. Have a good weekend,
Sam.
 
A

Art

Sam said:
TO John and Art, thanks much for your replies. Art, what little I
understand about mobile HD racks, your suggestion and explanation sounds
like it would more than easily satisfy what I am looking for!! I am
definitely interested and would appreciate any details that you can
provide for reconfiguring my computer with two removable HDs.

My computer setup is two physical HDs on the primary IDE channel and a
DVD-ROM and Plextor 712A burner on the secondary IDE channel. If I
remember correctly, I used the last PCI slot when installing the Adaptec
Duo USB card. I believe but I need to check, I have only one vacant 51/4
bay left on the computer. Art, does my computer setup appear to be
something that might allow the use of the mobile racks??

Again, to all who replied to my emails, thanks very much. I always learn
so much from the information posted on these newsgroups. Have a good
weekend, Sam.


Sam:
First of all -- when you respond to a previous posting, please include that
post and all prior posts that bear on the issue at hand, or at least the
pertinent parts of the prior posts. This is for the benefit of all users who
have not followed the thread and are unacquainted with the issue. They too
may have a interest in this issue so it's desirable to include whatever
background info may help them to understand what's involved here.

I'm including in this post my previous comments on this issue, as follows...

May I suggest an alternate strategy for your objective? (SAM WAS CONSIDERING
A BACKUP SYSTEM WHICH INVOLVED THE SWAPPING OF INTERNAL HARD DRIVES).
Assuming your
desktop computer has two available 5 1/4" bays, i.e., vacant bays that you
can utilize, equip your computer with two removable hard drives in their
mobile racks. It's an ideal hardware configuration for what you want to
achieve. By equipping your computer in this fashion you will, for all
practical purposes, be able to easily maintain a near fail-safe backup
system and at the same time be able to experiment with different programs
and configurations with the full realization that should anything go awry
you will be able to return to your original system and configuration in an
instant. And accomplish all this from the comfort of your computer chair
with no need to get inside your computer case to make cable/power
disconnects and connects. It's close to an ideal system for many, if not
most, desktop computer users and I can virtually guarantee that once you
begin working with this arrangement you'll never want to return to the "old"
way. It's that good.

As I previously insinuated, the best arrangement (or so it seems to me) is
to install two removable hard drives. The hard drives are housed in
so-called mobile racks that fit in the 5 1/4" bays of a desktop's computer
case . The racks themselves are two-piece affairs with the HD residing in a
removable tray that slides in and out of the rack. The beauty of this
arrangement is that the drives
can easily be accessed from outside the computer case. Note that these
mobile racks are designed for desktop computers and not laptops/notebooks
because of the latter's size/weight considerations.

So by using a disk imaging program such as Symantec's Norton Ghost or
Acronis True Image (I am not familiar with the V2i Protector Desktop Edition
program you mentioned in your original post), you can routinely clone your
day-to-day working hard drive to the second drive, thus having a virtual
bit-for-bit copy of that working drive. And through the use of additional
removable trays you're free to create additional clones on hard drives that
you can easily remove from the premises for near-absolute security. Then
again, you can use separate (limitless) hard drives for whatever purposes
you desire -- different operating systems, graphics, one for the visiting
grandchild, etc. And when the day comes that one or another of your hard
drives goes kaputski, it's a simple matter to
replace that drive from the comfort of your computer chair without having to
get inside your computer case.

As I stated, in my opinion the best arrangement is to have two removable
hard drives installed. However, if you have only a single 5 1/4" bay
available to house one mobile rack, you can still profitably use a single
removable hard drive. In this instance you would have your day-to-day
working hard drive installed as an internal drive and the second drive would
be your removable drive. The internal drive (in effect, your C: drive) would
be configured as Secondary Master while the removable drive would be your
Primary Master. During normal operation the removable drive would be
electrically disconnected from the machine by a simple turn of the mobile
rack's keylock to the OFF position. (For additional safety, you could even
physically disconnect the removable drive from the computer by a simple pull
of the rack's handle. No more difficult then opening a desk drawer). So the
system would boot to your internal hard drive. When a time comes where you
want to boot from the removable drive you would simply connect it by turning
the keylock to the ON position. Since it's configured as Primary Master, the
computer will boot to that drive.

Do you see the enormous advantages to this hardware configuration? Now you
can safely play around with a wide variety of programs and configurations on
your day-to-day working hard drive, confident that if anything goes awry
(even to the extent that your drive becomes physically or electronically
defective), you have a perfectly good bootable clone that is virtually
instantly at hand. And you can easily clone back to your internal drive
(assuming it's not defective) the contents of the previously cloned
removable drive.

There's a wide variety of mobile racks available ranging in cost from about
$15 (all plastic) to $45 and up for the all-aluminum models. Interestingly
enough, in my experience the cheapos work just as well as the more expensive
models. Installing them is no more difficult then installing a CD-ROM or
other 5 1/4" device. You can do a Google search of "mobile racks" to peruse
the many different available models.

I can assure you that once you begin working with removable hard drives
(preferably two), you'll have one and only one regret -- that you didn't
have this hardware configuration on your previous desktop computers.
Art
 

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