Stop Rounding in the Table

T

Terry Kreft

Answers inline.

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Terry Kreft


Jamie Collins said:
You said up thread (quote), "As ordering on the decimal datatype
doesn't always return an ordered data set then AFAICS the decimal
datatype is broken."

Later you said, (quote) "Yes/No - I now see your point...yes that is a
bug."

So, do you consider the YESNO data type to be broken?

No, I retract that this is a bug, it's actually a feature.
I inferred you do not use, nor would recommend readers to use, a data
type that you consider broken. Would you clarify your position, please?

You inferred incorrectly, why would I reccomend not using the decimal
datatype(?), I would point out that it is broken when it comes to sorting
though.
This is a bit vague but do I infer correctly you use the DECIMAL data
type (the baby) but do not use the engine to sort DECIMAL data (the
bathwater)? Or were you interpreting the idiom literally?

As I have a .co.uk e-mail address I decided to ironically interpret the
idiom literally.

I would use the decimal datatype but not sort decimal data, I don't believe
I've ever said anything different.
 
J

Jamie Collins

Terry said:
You inferred incorrectly, why would I reccomend not using the decimal
datatype(?), I would point out that it is broken when it comes to sorting
though.

I would use the decimal datatype but not sort decimal data, I don't believe
I've ever said anything different.

We got there in the end (phew said:
No, I retract that this is a bug, it's actually a feature.

Interesting. Why do you now consider it a feature?

Jamie.

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T

Terry Kreft

I've been here a long time, I think you're just catching up, but never mind,
so often it's not the arriving it's the journey that's the important part.

Feature
 
J

Jamie Collins

Terry said:

There are well documented reasons why the SQL-92 standard, which Jet
4.0 aspires to, does not have a boolean data type. However, now that
you have confirmed that you would still use a data type you consider
broken (avoiding the broken aspects), this point is now done, I feel.
I've been here a long time, I think you're just catching up

Absolutely. Sincere thanks for you help in this thread.
so often it's not the arriving it's the journey that's the important part

Terry, I feel that you are trying to make my journey more difficult
than it need be e.g. clever logic rather than clear points. I think
you recognised early on that I wanted to know whether you use/would use
the DECIMAL data type and I feel I had to drag the point out of you.

Rather than ask me to demonstrate that your answer to my question would
have relevance, please just answer the question or post no reply.

Rather than point out what can and cannot be inferred from declining to
post a list of differences in Jet between NOT NULL UNIQUE and PRIMARY
KEY or what may be inferred about me when I infer something about the
decline, please just post the list or post no reply.

Be kind to a newbie such as me, please, and keep it simple so that my
simple brain can understand.

Jamie.

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T

Terry Kreft

Jamie,
I don't recall saying (or indeed implying) that I would not use the decimal
datatype.

Maybe if you asked the questions you wanted answered you would get straight
answers. You seemed far more intent on sparring and scoring points than
getting an answer to a question, in that situation I don't mind
reciprocating (until I get bored).

Maybe I'm giving you more credit than you feel you need, I got the
impression you were enjoying this thread, oh well, I'll know better next
time, you want "lies to adults" (to quote Pratchett et al) rather than the
truth? OK.

If you review some of the threads in this NG (which I know you do) you'll
see a number where people (mainly the usual suspects but also valued input
from lurkers and newbies) just talk around a point, posting code, testing
theories and touching on what I said below, seeing the value of the journey
to arrive at the point where we have a common understanding.

David Fenton rarely agrees with what I say (by which I mean that he often
has a contradictory comment to make) I don't regard this as a nuisance or
trolling I have known David for years through the NGs and understand to some
extent how his mind works. He is a valued contributor and part of his value
is his willingness to contradict anybody he thinks is talking garbage. His
unwillingness to fully explain his points can be frustrating but at the same
time it's his prerogative to do this.

If you want to challenge me, David or anyone in this NG that's is your
right, but don't for one second believe that because someone neglects or
declines to answer you that this in some way proves you point.
 
J

Jamie Collins

Terry said:
I don't recall saying (or indeed implying) that I would not use the decimal
datatype.

We've reach agreement (i.e. we would both use the DECIMAL data type
despite its bugs/features) and that's good.
If you review some of the threads in this NG (which I know you do)

You are correct, I do...
Maybe if you asked the questions you wanted answered you would get straight
answers.

Maybe. Only asking questions is a submissive exercise...it really means
you learn only what people are prepared to throw your way. Answering
questions is a whole different kettle of fish, it means your setting
your stall out on what you believe, you are inviting comments which on
occasion can be quite aggressive, but the major advantage is that
people really start to think about their replies you tend to get much
stronger responses and discussions. The bottom line is that answering
questions frequently ends up answering your own questions and certainly
improves your knowledge far more than the passive exercise of just
asking.
You seemed far more intent on sparring and scoring points than
getting an answer to a question

That's not my intention.

I suppose in a way I consider these groups to be 'politics'. Take this
thread, for example: my interest is to attack what I see as the
negative (no pun intended) propaganda against the DECIMAL data type.
*I* think that people who post things like 'buggy as hell' and 'the
sorting is wildly inaccurate' have not been looking at things
rationally. For me, it is these people who are causing a distraction.
It seems to have become a soapbox issue for me but I am growing weary.

I would *love* to have one 'definitive' discussion on this topic where
all the interest parties (particularly Allen Brown) get to the bottom
of these issues. Then everyone could link to the discussion on google
groups, rather than the Allen Brown article that seems to have been the
start of all this heat. If you can help me formulate the question (i.e.
one that does not have 'wouldn't touch it with a barge pole' written
all over it), I'll be glad to post it.
Maybe I'm giving you more credit than you feel you need, I got the
impression you were enjoying this thread, oh well, I'll know better next
time

No, no, no! I *am* enjoying this thread. It's hard work but ultimately
rewarding, I guess.
you want "lies to adults" (to quote Pratchett et al) rather than the
truth? OK.

I want the truth.

I used to think the worst thing was people clamming up just when things
get interesting i.e. you know they know something but they stop
replying. I have recently learned that it's worse when someone claims
to know something when you suspect they don't replies only to inform
you they will not tell you. I don't think that helps anyone get to the
truth.
If you want to challenge me, David or anyone in this NG that's is your
right, but don't for one second believe that because someone neglects or
declines to answer you that this in some way proves you point.

Again the 'politics'. I want to ensure that someone who refuses to 'put
up or shut up' loses 'votes'. If my case is the strongest then I see
myself as being closest to the 'truth'; I do not want my case to be
built on fallacies, though.
is a valued contributor and part of his value
is his willingness to contradict anybody he thinks is talking garbage. His
unwillingness to fully explain his points can be frustrating but at the same
time it's his prerogative to do this.

I don't consider myself to have been contradicted if someone *says* I
am wrong; being *shown* to be wrong is another matter and something I
very much welcome.

I don't have much respect for someone who would purposely frustrate the
learning process.

Jamie.

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