Stolen PC

[Phil]

My son's PC was stolen along with all the software. I'm trying to find out
if I have to buy everything again. Does anyone know Microsoft policy on this?

It was an HP PC so with OEM Windows XP home. I have no disks - only a
record of the product key. I guess I just have to buy a new licence.

Also do MS keep a record of stolen product keys? Not sure if this would
stop the thief from using the PC?

 

[Bruce Chambers]

My son's PC was stolen along with all the software. I'm trying to find out
if I have to buy everything again. Does anyone know Microsoft policy on this?

It was an HP PC so with OEM Windows XP home. I have no disks - only a
record of the product key. I guess I just have to buy a new licence.

The licenses for any OEM software installed on the PC were stolen along
with the computer. Be sure to include them on the insurance claim.

Also do MS keep a record of stolen product keys?

No, Microsoft provides no support for OEM licenses.

Not sure if this would
stop the thief from using the PC?

Nope.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[db.·.. >]

you might try to get
the details of the machine
from hp, like oem licenses,
serial numbers, etc and provide
them to law enforcement.

here is some more fyi:

http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?form=MSHOME&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&q=pc was stolen


--

db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces

 

[Phil]

Thanks for the help.

Sadly insurance is not an option - what with excess, depreciation and loss
of no claims it makes no sense. Police are not interested - we know who the
thief is as he advertised some of the stolen goods and we traced it to him -
informed the case officer but it seems it is too small a crime for them to
bother. Who says crime doesn't pay?

Just checked the link given and it says that if your PC is stolen then the
Windows software is gone too. That's a pretty unfriendly business practice -
why would they do that? There must be a tiny number of people who get their
PCs stolen and legitimately want to reinstall Windows on a new PC which
doesn't have Windows already preinstalled. This just adds insult to injury.

 

[db.·.. >]

in one respect i understand
what you are stating.

however, i disagree with
giving your local law enforcement
a free ride by not forcing them
to do their job.

all thefts must be reported and
the police must take action.

therefore, you should raise hell
with them and your councilman.

in addition, since you have an
idea of who the culprit it, then
this would make the job of the
police easier.

the value of the item is based
differently than for insurance
purposes.

therefore, if your machine was
purchased for several thousand
dollars, then this is larceny.

if there was breaking and entering
or trespassing, then this is also
a crime.

in addition to the above criminal
charges, you also have rights in
civil court.

--

db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

Thanks for the help.

Sadly insurance is not an option - what with excess, depreciation and loss
of no claims it makes no sense. Police are not interested - we know who
the
thief is as he advertised some of the stolen goods and we traced it to
him -
informed the case officer but it seems it is too small a crime for them to
bother. Who says crime doesn't pay?

Just checked the link given and it says that if your PC is stolen then the
Windows software is gone too. That's a pretty unfriendly business
practice -
why would they do that? There must be a tiny number of people who get
their
PCs stolen and legitimately want to reinstall Windows on a new PC which
doesn't have Windows already preinstalled. This just adds insult to
injury.

OEM software is part of the computer package, and you get it for free
essentially. When you replace the computer, it too will be supplied with OEM
software.

The only trackable computers are Macs. I understand that the Mac
registration process enables Mac repairers to bring lawful owners and stolen
machines back together. PC's are not registered at all, only the operating
system, which could be taken off and installed on another machine that is
not 'hot'..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

[Phil]

DatabaseBen,

Thanks for the advice. The case officer is not getting a free ride (but
pretty close to one). I, very politely, chase him every few days - the thief
is proving difficult to catch (my guess is that he is not at home during the
case officer's shift or doesn't answer the door bell). This is a big city
and the amount of time an officer can put to a simple robbery is very small.
I'm not making excuses just stating facts. Very few robberies of this nature
are investigated - this one has been only because my son tracked down the
thief and we know a detective at the station.

As to civil action - I don't know how we would do that - we have no real
proof. It took me an hour persuading my son not to go round and make a
citizen's arrest. He (and half his college football team) wanted to kick the
guys door down and recover the stolen goods (the PC being the most important
as it contains hundreds of photos and personal documents which can't be
recovered - no recent backups of course). It is frustrating that the only
solution seems to be to behave as badly as the criminal (he did kick my son's
door down) - which I'm not prepared to do.

Anyway this is a whole different issue - maybe the police in your area are
able to deal with these types of crime (I'd be very surprised and if so we
should all move there).

Thanks again,
Phil

 

[Snidley W.]

Just checked the link given and it says that if your PC is stolen then the
Windows software is gone too. That's a pretty unfriendly business practice -
why would they do that?

What a stupid question that is.

Someone steals a box of jewelry from your house. Are the vendors for
each piece of jewelry expected to reimburse you?

I hope you aren't raising your kids to be as stupid as you appear to
be.

 

[Phil]

Mike,

Thanks. This area is a mine field - here is what I have learnt today - I'm
sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but your post seems wrong.

OEM Windows IS NOT FREE - essentially or not MS gets money from every OEM
sale (probably $20-$30 for XP Home). We (consumers) pay for that.

I am sure you know that there is no technical reason for MS not to allow OEM
software to be transferred - it is not like the integrated software that
controls a DVD player. Windows is separate from the PC - it is only for
business reasons that they are sold together (and perhaps 10% of the time
they are not bundled).

So this is simply a business practice. Providing OEM windows is a benefit
for the consumer, the reseller and MS - it is a win-win (no pun intended)
situation - actually it has been wildly successful. So much so that
consumers mistakenly think like you do - that Windows is free, which makes
non-OEM pricing such a huge shock. And is a big issue for MS as I am sure
they would like to switch to a software-as-a-service model (like antivirus).

So, I can understand (and see some logic) to OEM software not being
transferable (supposedly because of the heavy discount) but irreparable
damage or stolen PCs should be an exception. It costs MS nothing to do this
and the harm to MS is huge as it encourages software piracy. Let me explain.

My son cannot afford to buy a new PC yet - when he can from his part time
job he will probably get one with OEM Vista. So between now and maybe 6
months I have given him an old PC so he can access the web and do his school
work - this PC has a legal version of Windows 98 but most of his apps
(including MS-Office) won't run with Win-98. So he needs XP and his choices
are $90 for a legal version (that will be useless in 6 months time) or $5 for
a pirated version. Hence, MS encourages software piracy.

It's a bad policy - MS should make exceptions but they won't just like I
won't be able to persuade my son that using pirated software is wrong. C'est
la vie.

 

[Phil]

I hope this board is moderated - how dare you make such a personal attack?

Your ignorance is only superceded by your rudeness.

The PC also had antivirus software, wordprocessing, spreadsheet, desktop
publishing, database, photography, video editing, music playing, and many
many other apps as well as numerous games.

Every single app can be reinstalled on any PC except Windows.

But this is not the full extent of your ignorance. You seem to think that
Windows installed on a PC has material value like jewelry in a jewelry box.
This is completely wrong - the marginal cost of each copy of Windows is
virtually zero i.e. it costs MS virtually nothing to replace a stolen copy of
Windows.

I suggest you learn a little more about computers and about business before
embarassing yourself like that.

 

[Phil]

Curt,

The general point is not only incorrect it displays a complete ignorance of
computer software and business in general. Saying Snidley is ignorant is not
actually insulting him/her - I am ignorant of many things, e.g. I was
recently ignorant of MS' non-transferable policy on OEM Windows.

The rudeness I completeley agree with you on and thank you for pointing this
out - I cannot find any moderator to bring this up with but will keep looking.

Phil

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Inline

My son's PC was stolen along with all the software. I'm trying to find
out
if I have to buy everything again.

Yes, unless your insurance covers some of it.

Does anyone know Microsoft policy on
this?
No.

It was an HP PC so with OEM Windows XP home. I have no disks - only a
record of the product key. I guess I just have to buy a new licence.

At minimum, yes.

Also do MS keep a record of stolen product keys? Not sure if this would
stop the thief from using the PC?

Nope. Probably not.

 

[db.·.. >]

well, as far as everyone
is concerned the pc also
has credit card numbers
and other account data.

so you might want to ensure
your creditors are made aware
of the compromise.

-----------
your son and his friends
don't have to knock the door
down, but isn't a bad idea.

however, one has to fight fire
with fire.

perhaps, your son and friends
should develop a plan, like order
a pizza for the punk and when
he opens the door, the gang can
boldly walk in and retrieve the
stolen property.

might also get the dean
of the college involved if
the punk is a college student.

-----------

remember to put passwords
on the new computer, like
on the bios, the disk and
of course the administrator.
--

in regards to civil action,
all it requires is a witness
to confirm that the punk
has the computer and then
you would send a letter to
the parents demanding the
computers return or you will
sue them.

if the punk is a student
then it is likely the school
administrators will provide
you with assistance.


db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

Mike,

Thanks. This area is a mine field - here is what I have learnt today -
I'm
sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but your post seems wrong.

OEM Windows IS NOT FREE - essentially or not MS gets money from every OEM
sale (probably $20-$30 for XP Home). We (consumers) pay for that.

I am sure you know that there is no technical reason for MS not to allow
OEM
software to be transferred - it is not like the integrated software that
controls a DVD player. Windows is separate from the PC - it is only for
business reasons that they are sold together (and perhaps 10% of the time
they are not bundled).

So this is simply a business practice. Providing OEM windows is a benefit
for the consumer, the reseller and MS - it is a win-win (no pun intended)
situation - actually it has been wildly successful. So much so that
consumers mistakenly think like you do - that Windows is free, which makes
non-OEM pricing such a huge shock. And is a big issue for MS as I am sure
they would like to switch to a software-as-a-service model (like
antivirus).

So, I can understand (and see some logic) to OEM software not being
transferable (supposedly because of the heavy discount) but irreparable
damage or stolen PCs should be an exception. It costs MS nothing to do
this
and the harm to MS is huge as it encourages software piracy. Let me
explain.

My son cannot afford to buy a new PC yet - when he can from his part time
job he will probably get one with OEM Vista. So between now and maybe 6
months I have given him an old PC so he can access the web and do his
school
work - this PC has a legal version of Windows 98 but most of his apps
(including MS-Office) won't run with Win-98. So he needs XP and his
choices
are $90 for a legal version (that will be useless in 6 months time) or $5
for
a pirated version. Hence, MS encourages software piracy.

It's a bad policy - MS should make exceptions but they won't just like I
won't be able to persuade my son that using pirated software is wrong.
C'est
la vie.

Phil

I used the word 'essentially' for a reason. Were you to go out and buy a
barebones tower, and keyboard, mouse, monitor etc of the same quality as say
HP, you would realize that the OS part of a computer deal is essentially
free.

The terms of OEM is that the computer manufacturer is WHOLLY responsible, so
claim off of the manufacturer. They will ask for proof and you will find it
difficult to get any that sticks.. I have no doubt that they will tell you
you claim off of insurance.

It is unfortunate that your son does not have the funds to get a new
computer or software for your older computer, and that you don't have a
spare Vista machine kicking around, but they are not the fault or
responsibility of either Microsoft or the manufacturer.

Try upgrading the RAM in the Windows 98 machine to 256mb, and your son will
be able to legally download Ubuntu which includes Open Office. he will then
be able to continue his work..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

[Xandros]

My son's PC was stolen along with all the software. I'm trying to find
out
if I have to buy everything again. Does anyone know Microsoft policy on
this?

It was an HP PC so with OEM Windows XP home. I have no disks - only a
record of the product key. I guess I just have to buy a new licence.

Also do MS keep a record of stolen product keys? Not sure if this would
stop the thief from using the PC?

Phil why don't you teach Microsoft a lesson and the next system you buy
install Linux instead?

 

[Snidley W.]

The rudeness I completeley agree with you on and thank you for pointing this
out - I cannot find any moderator to bring this up with but will keep looking.

The chance one takes when they post in an unmoderated group - and
Usenet it completey unmoderated - is that one will get feathers
ruffled. You would hardly expect someone who chose "Snidely" as a
name to post as "Mr. Rogers" would post... or would you?

In the interest of accuracy, I will, however, retract my assertion
that your question was stupid.

I will change it and say anyone who would ask such a question is
stupid.

 

[Snidley W.]

I hope this board is moderated

Once again your hopes are dashed.

You're not doing very well today, are you!?

 

[FrYrEyesOnly]

Hello there I was just researching other info and came across your discussion.
A silly question but did you purchase the pc or laptop on a credit card that
covers losses like visa/mastercard does for everything? Its worth a look
into as for example they tell me they cover damages losses extend warranties
etc.
Upon getting another pc or laptop up and running....
My fathers laptop was stolen from the farm and thats all that was
taken-figure that out while he's out for a bite to eat? We got him to get a
program that traces the pc laptop www.lojackforlaptops.com. We understood it
tracks the laptop -so its on the new pc or laptop and who ever takes off with
it somehow is traced via the software company lojack/police ...there is a
trial with most pc's and laptop's but people do not stop and slow down and
read the information appearing -upon startup most times and miss out on
"helpful" software.
Just trying to help,
Jen A
Waterloo ON Canada.....hope the weather stays warm! : )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------->

 

[Phil]

Mike,

Thanks - Dell used to sell PCs for $30 less than the same PC with OEM
Windows XP Home - not sure if they still do. Selling it for $30 is 1000%+
gain over marginal cost.

You use the word "fault" as if I am saying it is Microsoft's fault that my
son's PC was stolen. I am sure you don't mean that and I'm certainly not
claiming that. However, to find that the OS is the only piece of software
which I am not able to transfer is the fault of Microsoft and I have yet to
see a good answer to why they would do that (in the case of a stolen PC).

Interestingly I have found that getting around the WPA is relatively easy
and even MS will provide support for OEM problems i.e. they are currently
helping me and perhaps they will allow the transfer this time. It seems MS
are not as evil as their licence agreements appear. I have also been told
that non-OEM Vista has a one time transfer policy. Didn't Apple try
something like this with iTunes? Another lesson MS needs to learn from
Apple, I guess.

Thanks for the tip about Ubuntu - another poster suggested Linux as well.
However, the investment in both time and money in other Windows based apps is
significant. MS is well aware that switching costs are incredibly high,
hence these anti-loyalty business practices - I am sure they will change (not
because of anything I say or do). Bad business practices eventually change
(or the business dies) - MS is no exception.

Phil

 

[Phil]

db,

All good ideas (except fighting fire with fire). Taking the law into our
own hands would probably work - I'm just not prepared to do that for
something like this. The "punk" is a young adult professional thief and drug
addict - known to the police. He lives in an inner city ghetto - tower
blocks where even the police don't like to visit - shootings are common
place. They target students - there have been over 30 laptop thefts from
student residences since Sept. - which is why my son had a desktop PC but
that didn't stop the thief. So far there is no violent (against a person)
crime involved but he is known to associate with others who are violent.
This is an area of society that I don't belong in - I support our police and
community workers who are trying to solve these problems, I don't want to be
part of the problem.

My son is a student - no credit cards, no online banking or other accounts.
Adding passwords is not really an issue (and won't slow down a thief) - doing
regular backups is and he has learnt that lesson. Losing these files is an
inconvenience rather than a financial loss. Actually the only file which has
cost him money is an assignment that was due - he had to pay for a copy of
the police report to prove to his professor that the PC was stolen in order
to get an extension on the deadline. (No-one trusts anyone anymore.)

To pursue a civil action we would have to serve the thief with a summons,
have proof of the stolen goods and the thief would have to show up to court.
Failing to show up is not a criminal offence and even if judgement went in
our favour there would be no way to collect. Bailiffs would not be able to
sieze any property (as there is no way to know what property the thief owns)
and our stolen goods have most likely been pawned off already for rent and
drug money. The police and courts are losing this battle in all our inner
cities - whilst my son met with our detective friend over a 20 minute period
he was handed three crime reports - one arrest of a 14 year old youth with
sub-machine gun and two arrests for homicides. A stolen PC does not figure
on his priorities. The solution is with education, employment, housing,
health and other social services - then the police might have a chance.

Phil