Still now smart device support in VS2010?


R

Rainer

Hi,

I still have difficulties to understand why there is now smart device
development available in VS2010 :-((

Some of my Projects are vor WM6 and earlier. Must I from now on hold two
or more IDEs on my Machines to be able to fullfill the needs of my
company? That su..s!!

Is there any perspective, that it will be possible to move WM6 projects
to VS2010 in the near future?

Regards
Rainer
 
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T

Thomas Scheidegger

Hi Rainer
no smart device development available in VS2010 :-((
Is there any perspective

there are plans to provide an 'Add-On'
to VS2010 for the next generation smart/mobile devices,
as now there is one for 'Windows Phone 7'
(currently available: CTP)
and another for maybe something like 'Windows CE 7':
(new name: Windows Embedded Compact 7)
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/obloch/archive/2010/05/03/windows-ce-is-not-dead.aspx

The release of the developer tools is now linked
to the release cycle of new mobile OS.

Until then, VS2008 is the only solution
for existing devices
(with e.g. .NET Compact Framework 3.5)
and can be installed side-by-side to VS2010.
 
R

Rainer

Hi Thomas,

thanks for your information.
But this rumors and blogs talk about
- Windows Phone 7
- Windows Embedded Compact 7
but what about the "Old,old" WM6 ??
What about customers like me who have to support their customers with
"stone aged" WM6 PDAs?

Regards
Rainer

Am 30.05.2010 22:59, schrieb Thomas Scheidegger:
 
P

Peter Foot [MVP]

As Thomas said, you should continue to use VS2008. You can install VS2008
and VS2010 side-by-side.

Peter
 
R

Rainer Queck

Hi Peter,
As Thomas said, you should continue to use VS2008. You can install VS2008
and VS2010 side-by-side.
Great! and:
- 2012 I use VS2012 (WM<x>), VS2010 (WM7 ), VS2008 (WM6 and older)
- 2014 I use VS2014 (WM<y>),VS2012 (WM<x>), VS2010 (WM7 ), VS2008 (WM6 and
older)......
as long as I have to support old, old, old smart devices.
That really sounds like a practible solution to me!

Regards
Rainer
 
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I

Ivan

Hi,

I still have difficulties to understand why there is now smart device
development available in VS2010 :-((

Some of my Projects are vor WM6 and earlier. Must I from now on hold two
or more IDEs on my Machines to be able to fullfill the needs of my
company? That su..s!!

Is there any perspective, that it will be possible to move WM6 projects
to VS2010 in the near future?

Regards
Rainer

I agree that cutting suport for existing mobile platforms from VS2010
seems a little odd (to say the least). We have been developing for
industrial controllers using CE6.0 and this is not supported in VS2010
anymore.... In fact anytning that has to do with the .NET CF is not
supported. The only thing remotely similar will be support for Windows
Phone 7 - something which is quite different from the WinCE, and to me
quite frankly looks like a quite overdue attempt to immitate Apple.
One possibility is that MS is trying to "split the market" and "herd"
all device developers towards Windows Embedded XP or WES7 for the
larger devices, and Windows Phone 7 for the smaller devices, but for
many of us this won't be feasible... Bottom line is that currently I
cannot develop for Windows CE 6.0, or Windows Compact 7 or whatever,
and to me VS 2010 is useless.... Unless there is no plug-in support in
near future, I can bet you that MS will lose big in this market. You
can see also:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/sa69he4t.aspx
 
I

Ivan


Thanks,

From this (fairly vague) article I can distill the following: Windows
Embedded Business (WEB) means Windows Embedded Standard 7, Windows
Embedded Compact 7, all dedicated to non-phone devices. On on the
other side , the Mobile Communications Business (MCB) means Windows
Phone 7....
There is no anything about tools for these platforms - I assume there
will be plugins for VS2010, or, we will still need to use VS2008 (or
2005 for platform builder?) They supposedly just released the CTP for
Compact 7.... Will see....
 
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T

Thomas Scheidegger

even all the tools for the next release of WinCE
(new name: "Windows Embedded Compact 7", currently CTP)
will be completely based on VS2008.
Watch this video from TechEd last week:
http://www.msteched.com/2010/NorthAmerica/WEM307

at 20:00-22:00, the reasons:
+ VS2010 was not ready yet when they started on Compact 7.
+ Plugin-model has so dramatically changed for VS2010.
+ They did not have the resources to switch.
+ Talking with customers if VS2010 support is important.

And the built-in .NET Compact Framework in Compact 7 will
still be based on current version 3.5.

Thus it looks like for a quite long time,
only the tools for Phone 7 will integrate in VS2010.
 
M

Markus Humm

Am 16.06.2010 01:54, schrieb Thomas Scheidegger:
even all the tools for the next release of WinCE
(new name: "Windows Embedded Compact 7", currently CTP)
will be completely based on VS2008.
Watch this video from TechEd last week:
http://www.msteched.com/2010/NorthAmerica/WEM307

at 20:00-22:00, the reasons:
+ VS2010 was not ready yet when they started on Compact 7.
+ Plugin-model has so dramatically changed for VS2010.
+ They did not have the resources to switch.
+ Talking with customers if VS2010 support is important.

And the built-in .NET Compact Framework in Compact 7 will
still be based on current version 3.5.

Thus it looks like for a quite long time,
only the tools for Phone 7 will integrate in VS2010.

So that means Phone 7 is also based on CF 3.5 but the ability to write
WinForm apps is gone? Or am I misinterpreting something here?

Greetings

Markus
 
T

Thomas Scheidegger

So that means Phone 7 is also based on CF 3.5
but the ability to write WinForm apps is gone?

Windows Phone 7 uses a special, dedicated 'branch'
of the "Windows Embedded Compact 7" core OS.

And the same for the .NET Compact Framework for Phone 7,
it is a highly modified version, named '3.7'.
No 'Windows Forms' support,
but just a selection of the Silverlight- or XNA -APIs.

Class Library Reference for Windows Phone
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff626516.aspx

Class Library for Silverlight on Windows Phone
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd470087.aspx
 
M

Markus Humm

....forcing developers to redevelop complete and perfectly working
applications instead of providing a slow/painless migration path. (e.g.
by flagging not yet migrated apps as "old and possibly unsupported in
the future")

Greetings

Markus
 
T

Thomas Scheidegger

...forcing developers to redevelop complete and perfectly working
applications instead of providing a slow/painless migration path. (e.g.
by flagging not yet migrated apps as "old and possibly unsupported in
the future")


Markus, there is a new Press-Release story:

Microsoft Outlines Commitment to the Future of Enterprise Handheld Devices
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2010/jun10/06-17EnterpriseHandheld.mspx

quite confusing...

known:
"Ballmer announced that Windows Embedded will continue to support
developer tools used in building applications
and experiences on today's devices,
including Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 and Windows Forms."

then:
"An updated Windows Embedded Handheld platform
based on ....(Windows Embedded Compact 7) will be
released in the second half of calendar year 2011..."

BUT now:
"A clear migration path will be available for these applications
with Microsoft tools and technologies to a new application platform
based on Microsoft Silverlight and Microsoft XNA,
as well as Visual Studio 2010,
with the Windows Embedded Handheld release in 2011"

Now the big question, will this 'migration path' be:
a) just another, additional option for apps (the GUI)?
b) the recommended solution for the future?
c) or even mandatory?

and further,
will WinForm- and Silverlight -Apps run side-by-side
on the same Handheld (in 2011),
or will this be a decision by the OEMs when customizing the Compact OS?

IMHO:
using Silverlight on WP7 for consumers is one thing,
but migrating enterprise WinForm Apps to Silverlight/XNA
is not always a good idea.
 
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M

Markus Humm

Hello,

I'm talking about consumer devices as enterprice devices:

- cost normally more
- are harder to get
- often lack phone
- are not subsidised by phone companies, or do you know
any which does?
- often enough run WinCE instead of Windows Mobile
- sometimes use "non mainstream" Bluetooth stacks
=> seem to do everything they can to come into my way ;-)
(even if the fall protection/robustness would be a good thing)

Greetings

Markus
 

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