SP2+AMD64=BSOD even w/NoExecute=AlwaysOff

[Charles]

I've run out of options, I'm a computer applications engineer, and this
one has me stumped. Of course M$ online and email help are not
available, as usual, so I'm back to the tried and true newsgroups. I'm
hoping somebody out there has the answer.
The manufacturer knows about the problem, but is as stumped as I am.
The following is an edited copy of the email to the manufacturers of the
machine.

"Ok, you and M$ stumped me. I've been dealing with PC's and mainframes
since 1982, and this one has me baffled.

System:
MS-6741-30 MB (K8MM-ILSR)
AMD 64 3000+
1 GB mem
ASUS GeForce Ti 4400
S3 video onboard
ESS modem
Sony DVD rw (Channel 1)
2 IDE drives (Channel 0)
No SATA drives
No RAID
Realtek AC97 onboard
No OC'ing/no modifications
No USB's connected during install
No firewire connected during install
No mpegport.sys under "non-PnP" being used

Situation:
XP SP2 install causes error on reboot
error: 0x0000007E (0xc00000005, 0xF7266750, 0xF7A17430, 0xF7A1712C)

Attempted Remedies:
Installed latest VIA 4in1 driver
Installed latest nvidia drivers
Installed latest AC97 driver
Flash BIOS with AMI A6741VMS.310 was running 310a OEM proprietary
Remove PC-Cillin completely
Remove Nvidia drivers and Asus card physically (Used onboard S3)
Removed Logitech wireless kb and mouse/replace with wired MS kb and USB
mouse
Disabled memory Cache and Shadow
Uninstalled AverMedia UltraTV USB 300 software
Disabled onboard LAN
Disabled VIA SATA Raid controller
Disabled onboard AC97
Disabled onboard S3 (reinstalled nvidia drivers and Asus card)
Disabled DEP in boot.ini, using /NoExecute=AlwaysOff (didn't work so I
tried /Execute switch)
Installed Recovery Console to enable bootcfg.exe
Used bootcfg.exe to disable DEP during install (again with
/NoExecute=AlwaysOff then with /Execute)
Memory tests OK
Can't bootlog error, occurs before bootlogging apparently.
Clean XP install, winupdates before any software/drivers=BSOD

OK smart guys! WTF is up with THAT? I just have to laugh, That'll teach
me to go with the cutting edge AMD 64. Some guys seem to have had the
same problem with their MESH machines (AMD 64's as well on Asus MB) and
have worked around it by reinstalling XP from the recovery disc (losing
their drivers and software in the process) and then doing all XP updates
prior to reinstalling any drivers or software. This would set me back
quite a bit, if this is the solution. Others have had no problem after
disabling DEP through bootlog.ini or bootcfg, but this doesn't work for
me. (Which begs the next question, why would SP2 require turning off DEP
for AMD 64's when SP2 supposedly supports this feature? Intel provided
a little kickback?). Perhaps I wait for SP2a? Perhaps I take it back
to the store where I bought it and get a $40 "tuneup" and get them to
install SP2 "for free" as per their ads. I think that would be just
hilarious and well worth the $40 in entertainment value!
But, alas, I can't go without my machine, since it's my source of
income.
So any help that you can provide would be EXTREMELY appreciated (plus
I'll give you credit where credit is due on the tech boards, you'll be
the cat's ass to all the screwed AMD 64 owners)
Sincerely,
Charles Bradford, P.Eng.

 

[Greg R]

See below

"Ok, you and M$ stumped me. I've been dealing with PC's and mainframes
since 1982, and this one has me baffled.

System:
MS-6741-30 MB (K8MM-ILSR)
AMD 64 3000+
1 GB mem
ASUS GeForce Ti 4400
S3 video onboard
ESS modem
Sony DVD rw (Channel 1)
2 IDE drives (Channel 0)
No SATA drives
No RAID
Realtek AC97 onboard
No OC'ing/no modifications
No USB's connected during install
No firewire connected during install
No mpegport.sys under "non-PnP" being used

Situation:
XP SP2 install causes error on reboot
error: 0x0000007E (0xc00000005, 0xF7266750, 0xF7A17430, 0xF7A1712C)

Attempted Remedies:
Installed latest VIA 4in1 driver

Uninstall this and install Version - 4.43 from here
http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=2&Type=1

Disabled onboard AC97

This needs to stay enabled.

Memory tests OK
Can't bootlog error, occurs before bootlogging apparently.
Clean XP install, winupdates before any software/drivers=BSOD

You may need to remove the cmos battery for 6 hours.
So it can reset back to the defaut settings.

If you have the xp sp2 cd. Not slipped streamed . Try this. Do
another clean install. Disconnect from the internet. Install
windows xp. Then install the xp2 service pack. Then update your
drivers (except for S3 graphics-I think there is a problem with that
version on the windows update site)

Technically, I don’t think xp sp2 was supposed to be put on a amd64
computer.


Greg R

 

[Charles]

See below

Uninstall this and install Version - 4.43 from here
http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=2&Type=1


This needs to stay enabled.


You may need to remove the cmos battery for 6 hours.
So it can reset back to the defaut settings.

If you have the xp sp2 cd. Not slipped streamed . Try this. Do
another clean install. Disconnect from the internet. Install
windows xp. Then install the xp2 service pack. Then update your
drivers (except for S3 graphics-I think there is a problem with that
version on the windows update site)

Technically, I don’t think xp sp2 was supposed to be put on a amd64
computer.


Greg R

Thanks for your response, Greg.
Ok...tried clearing CMOS and rolling back to VIA 4/1 4.43 and reinstall
SP2 = still BSOD Next tried VIA 4/1 4.53 (released a couple of days ago)
install failed, install couldn't verify Update.inf, so I stopped
cryptsvc and renamed catroot2 and then started cryptsvc. Again with the
crash and burn with a 0x7E. I don't trust those 4 in 1's much though,
I've had problems with them in the past. So I am pretty suspicious of
those. I also agree that SP2 wasn't thoroughly tested with the AMD64
platforms. So next month I'm supposed to trust XP64???? Anybody else
have any ideas????? I love a challenge, but this has gotten out of
control! )
Charles....

 

[Charles]

See below

Uninstall this and install Version - 4.43 from here
http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=2&Type=1


This needs to stay enabled.


You may need to remove the cmos battery for 6 hours.
So it can reset back to the defaut settings.

If you have the xp sp2 cd. Not slipped streamed . Try this. Do
another clean install. Disconnect from the internet. Install
windows xp. Then install the xp2 service pack. Then update your
drivers (except for S3 graphics-I think there is a problem with that
version on the windows update site)

Technically, I don’t think xp sp2 was supposed to be put on a amd64
computer.


Greg R

Thanks for your response, Greg.
Ok...tried clearing CMOS and rolling back to VIA 4/1 4.43 and clean
install of XP and reinstall SP2 = still BSOD Next tried VIA 4/1 4.53
(released a couple of days ago) clean install of XP, install of SP2
failed, install couldn't verify Update.inf, so I stopped
cryptsvc and renamed catroot2 and then started cryptsvc. Again with the
crash and burn with a 0x7E. I don't trust those 4 in 1's much though,
I've had problems with them in the past. So I am pretty suspicious of
those. I also agree that SP2 wasn't thoroughly tested with the AMD64
platforms. So next month I'm supposed to trust XP64???? Anybody else
have any ideas????? I love a challenge, but this has gotten out of
control! )
Charles....

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Charles;

I have installed SP2 on MANY AMD64 computers, most of which use the VIA
4in1 drivers. Which version of 4in1 are you using? I have not had a single
issue on *ANY* AMD 64 machines. on my two personal AMD64 machines, they
both dual boot WinXP pro and WinXP 64 BETA. I have no issues at all, and no
installation issues on the perhaps 3 dozen or so AMD64 machines I have built
for customers. The stop error you are getting can be related to any number
of things...but I would tend to suspect your physical RAM...either errors or
set to default/wrong voltage. I find that on most AMD64 motherboards that
"autodetect" voltage for your RAM Modules will default to 2.5 volts, but
setting the voltage to 2.7 volts will clear up all stop errors and page
faults. This might be worth a try. Make sure there are no peripherals
connected other than a mouse and a keyboard, and the you disable Q-fan in
the BIOS is the motherboard has that option. You can enable Q-Fan and Cool
'n Quiet after installation is complete.

Greg stated that he "thought" Windows XP was not supposed to be installed on
a AMD64, but rest assured there are many hundreds if not thousands of AMD64
processors out there happily running Windows XP faster than any Pentium chip
could hope to do.

Please keep us posted on your progress and I will check around for other
solutions to your problem and will post here if I have any additional
feedback.

Bobby

 

[Greg R]

er installation is complete.

Greg stated that he "thought" Windows XP was not supposed to be installed on
a AMD64, but rest assured there are many hundreds if not thousands of AMD64
processors out there happily running Windows XP faster than any Pentium chip
could hope to do.

A mvp told me this.

Greg R

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

The MVP was wrong. There is code in Windows XP (DEP, etc) that is written
specifically for the AMD64 bit processor. At the last WinHEC (Windows
Hardware Engineer Conference), Bill Gates was the keynote speaker. He told
the engineers in attendance (from every major manufacturer in the WORLD)
that Microsoft was going to 64 bit, and was directing it's energy in that
direction, and that any manufacturer that was not migrating to 64 bit would
be out of the picture. Of all the major manufacturers, guess which was the
ONLY one that said no? (Hint: DELL). That is why Dell lost it's
dominance in the server and business sectors...they were even outsold by SUN
on Sun's old 32 bit platforms...


To sum up...There are no restrictions on running Windows XP on an AMD64 bit
processor. In fact, most apps will run faster on a 64 bit processor than on
a P4 (including P4EE and standard HT), and won't even break a sweat. I have
two AMD64 bit procs and will never go back to Intel again.

BTW...Microsoft is writing WindowsXP 64 bit on and AMD64 3200+ production
processor. This is significant, as they have always written on and Intel
based chip in the past, but Intel drug it's feet on 64 bit processors and
now must copy AMD in order to maintain compatibility. Intel has recently
announced that it will produce 64 bit chips in mid-to-late 2005, but that
they will not run WnXP64 in full 64 bit mode, but instead it will run
WinXP64 in emulation (they just wont give up trying to get 64 bit out of
their P4 based form factor). That is why the EMT64 based chips have
bombed...no hypertransport...a lowly 800 MHz system bus (the promised 1066
MHZ was never delivered), and the power requirement and heat output is truly
frightening.

All I can say is that anyone with any foresight at all can plainly see that
the only viable upgrade path is with AMD. (I used to be a hardcore Intel
fan, but they sure have screwed up in the last 3 years). Just look at what
happened with the P4. We have bee stuck with P4's at 3.x GHz for 15 months
now. When the P4 form factor was introduced, with microsburst technology,
it was "predicted" that by this point in time we would all be running 10+
GHZ processors...what happened? P4 is dead. Intel cannot seem to find a
solution to the heat and power requirements to push a P4 style chip faster
than 3.5GHZ. They keep beating the same dead horse. AMD has the right
idea...move to 64 (already over 4GHZ), and take advantage of on-doe memory
control, Hypertransport. and the full bandwidth capabilities that
PCI-Express and SATA-II can throw at it. Current Intel technology does not
stand a chance...


Bobby

 

[Charles]

Charles;

I have installed SP2 on MANY AMD64 computers, most of which use the
VIA
4in1 drivers. Which version of 4in1 are you using? I have not had a
single issue on *ANY* AMD 64 machines. on my two personal AMD64
machines, they both dual boot WinXP pro and WinXP 64 BETA. I have no
issues at all, and no installation issues on the perhaps 3 dozen or so
AMD64 machines I have built for customers. The stop error you are
getting can be related to any number of things...but I would tend to
suspect your physical RAM...either errors or set to default/wrong
voltage. I find that on most AMD64 motherboards that "autodetect"
voltage for your RAM Modules will default to 2.5 volts, but setting
the voltage to 2.7 volts will clear up all stop errors and page
faults. This might be worth a try. Make sure there are no
peripherals connected other than a mouse and a keyboard, and the you
disable Q-fan in the BIOS is the motherboard has that option. You can
enable Q-Fan and Cool 'n Quiet after installation is complete.

Greg stated that he "thought" Windows XP was not supposed to be
installed on a AMD64, but rest assured there are many hundreds if not
thousands of AMD64 processors out there happily running Windows XP
faster than any Pentium chip could hope to do.

Please keep us posted on your progress and I will check around for
other solutions to your problem and will post here if I have any
additional feedback.

Bobby

Hi Bobby,
I was originally with whatever the original OEM installed VIA drivers
were (didn't check) BSOD'd on SP2 install, so I tried 4.51 (newest at
the time) still BSOD'd. Rolled VIA 4/1 back to 4.43 at Greg's
suggestion, still BSOD, and tried the latest VIA 4/1 4.53, no luck
there, either.
The RAM is all good, have run with both sticks and each stick
independently with no prob, and they check out just fine on memtests, no
intermittent problems. System is rock solid without SP2.
I will try bumping the RAM voltage and disabling Cool and Quiet this
afternoon.
I'll keep you posted, 'cause now I'm on a mission from God! LOL
Thanks for the suggestions!
Charles....

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Charles;

Try setting the voltage for the RAM manually in the BIOS as I
suggested...

Bobby

 

[Charles]

OK, tried bumping the RAM voltage, and turning off cool&quiet. Tried to
install SP2 with NO peripherals, mobo and HD only. Still BSOD's. Did
an uninstall, and it had a meltdown. Hmmmmm, things just get curiouser
and curiouser. SP2 doesn't always clean up after uninstall, so now I've
got to clean out all the crap it left behind. Curiously, SP2 uninstall
regularly leaves additional "Administrator" folders of various flavours
kicking around. This wasn't a memory error, SP2 uninstall has failed to
clean up before. Reran memtests at 2.7 volts for 18 hours (%57000
coverage) so I'm pretty confident in the memory. Now SP2 seems to have
fried the media player (not a big loss, but I'm getting pretty
frustrated with this). Now some windows updates won't install properly
and things are only going to get worse, in my experience. I'm going to
strip this MFer down and reformat, start from scratch. Losing another
day of pay..ouch! Any other ideas???? Linux is looking better and
better everyday! HELP!
I'll be back (in my best Arnie voice) after I finish with the strip down
and reinstalls. Could be a day or two (I gotta make a buck here once in
awhile)

Charles...

 

[Hallstein]

I have a similar problem with my Image. I want to deploy SP2 on my 160
AMD 64 machines. The strange thing is that I know SP2 works on those,
as they came installed with SP2 (just bought them). However, they Blue
Screen, as mentioned at
http://www.cybertechhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47330 So SP2
works, and there is some driver I use that is not good for AMD 64...

 

[Charles]

Hmmm,
just about given up on this, I had the machine down to just a mobo and hd.
No software, no peripherals and only OEM XP drivers. Still BSOD's. I'm
totally stumped on this one.
Oh well, I guess this machine just isn't meant to have SP2, bring on the
virii!!!
Charles....

(e-mail address removed) (Hallstein) wrote in

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

One point that I would like to make for the benefit of all reading this
thread is that there is no word in the English language spelled "virii".
The plural of virus is viruses. A collection of more than one virus is
referred to as "viruses". Whether one chooses to use a hardcopy dictionary,
or an electronic or online version of the same, the word "virii" does not
exist.

Bobby

 

[Greg R]

http://neworder.box.sk/codebox.links.php?&key=papvir

Greg R

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

And your point is? Just because you found a website that uses the word does
not validate it, anymore than the use by the OP in this thread. Did you
even bother to read what *YOU* posted? The author of the page used *virii*,
but in the articles he linked, the other authors *all* used the proper
terminology of viruses; example: jayakumar's paper on viruses.

Again you open your mouth and insert your foot.

Stop wasting bandwidth.

I'll give you partial credit for not claiming that an MVP told you.

"Virii" is not a word.

Bobby

 

[sandwichx]

http://neworder.box.sk/codebox.links.php?&key=papvir

Greg R


 >> Hmmm,
 >> just about given up on this, I had the machine down
to just a mobo and hd.
 >> No software, no peripherals and only OEM XP drivers.
Still BSOD's. I'm
 >> totally stumped on this one.
 >> Oh well, I guess this machine just isn't meant to
have SP2, bring on the
 >> virii!!!
 >> Charles....
 >>
 >> (e-mail address removed) (Hallstein) wrote in
 >>  >>
  >>> I have a similar problem with my Image. I want
to deploy SP2 on my 160
  >>> AMD 64 machines. The strange thing is that I
know SP2 works on those,
  >>> as they came installed with SP2 (just bought
them). However, they Blue
  >>> Screen, as mentioned at
  >>>
http://www.cybertechhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47330
So SP2
  >>> works, and there is some driver I use that is
not good for AMD 64...
  >>>
  >>>>>

This fix worked for me!

Regular amd processors can handle intel startup code. However certain
amd 64s can’t depending on how they install xp at the factory.

What you need to do is bypass the intel code and skip to the 64 code
using this simple registry fix.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\intelppm]
"Start"=dword:00000004

For me my original dword was 1 not 4.

I updated sp2 online through the microsoft website, then rebooted into
safe mode using F8. Loaded regedit, made a backup, typed in the fix
and simply rebooted. Easy.

You can also download the fix from

http://www.meshcomputers.com/downloads/sp2fix.zip

If you updated sp2 from cd i think you have to install the fix before
rebooting.

If you have other issues such as viruses it won’t work. Download the
trial version of norton, it picked up viruses that avg missed.

Sandwich