slightly OT: UPS battery dead

[SC Tom]

Hi, SC Tom and Vanguard,

Just to confirm a couple things: I bought the UPS in 1997 and paid $252.76
with tax. It was not an outrageous price at that time (I checked several
sources before buying it). The two 6-volt batteries are indeed set up in
series to act as a single 12-volt battery.

As I was looking up my files to get the amount I paid, I noticed that I
still have the receipt for my first computer, a Kaypro 286i. The
bare-bones computer, without the floppy drive and other important parts,
was $2,245 before tax. With everything added together, including a
dot-matrix printer, a tiny Princeton Max 12 monitor, and sales tax, the
total was $4,944.55.

Jo-Anne

Yep, that sounds about right. I remember buying a 286 system 'on sale' for
about $1300 in the early 80's. That was tiny monitor, mini-tower, keyboard,
and mouse. Oh, and a cheap 9-pin dot matrix printer. It's amazing how much
the price of technology has come down. Remember CD writers when they first
came out, and the CD-R's? Whew! Wish I had THAT money back LOL!!

 

[VanguardLH]

If the charging circuit is not rated to at least 9 amps, the battery
is not going to get a full charge.

Ampere-hours is NOT a measure of current. There is your misconception.
Ampere-hours is NOT amperes. Ampere-hours is a measure of capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere-hour

Also, the charging circuit does not need to support a 9 amperes charging
rate to charge a battery rated to 9 ampere-hours.

 

[SC Tom]

Ampere-hours is NOT a measure of current. There is your misconception.
Ampere-hours is NOT amperes. Ampere-hours is a measure of capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere-hour

Also, the charging circuit does not need to support a 9 amperes charging
rate to charge a battery rated to 9 ampere-hours.

I understand that. I guess I'm not making it very clear, but I'm not sure
how else to explain it. Ah well, never mind, we both know what we mean, and
I think we've both helped Jo-Anne, so I guess that's all that counts

 

[Paul]

Ampere-hours is NOT a measure of current. There is your misconception.
Ampere-hours is NOT amperes. Ampere-hours is a measure of capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere-hour

Also, the charging circuit does not need to support a 9 amperes charging
rate to charge a battery rated to 9 ampere-hours.

A lower charging current, means a longer charge time
to reach 100% capacity.

It would lengthen Stage 1 here. In this particular
design, you stay in Stage 1, until the voltage
threshold is reached, so the circuit takes care
of the details.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

Paul

 

[Jo-Anne]

Yep, that sounds about right. I remember buying a 286 system 'on sale' for
about $1300 in the early 80's. That was tiny monitor, mini-tower,
keyboard, and mouse. Oh, and a cheap 9-pin dot matrix printer. It's
amazing how much the price of technology has come down. Remember CD
writers when they first came out, and the CD-R's? Whew! Wish I had THAT
money back LOL!!

I don't remember what the CD writers cost, but I do remember the CD-Rs. They
held almost nothing and cost a fortune.

Jo-Anne

 

[VanguardLH]

A lower charging current, means a longer charge time
to reach 100% capacity.

It would lengthen Stage 1 here. In this particular
design, you stay in Stage 1, until the voltage
threshold is reached, so the circuit takes care
of the details.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

Paul

I figure the charging time would be longer and probably more than the
precentage increase in capacity. However, unless outages are extremely
frequent, there is lots of time to charge and even to drop to the slow
top-off rate.

 

[SC Tom]

I don't remember what the CD writers cost, but I do remember the CD-Rs.
They held almost nothing and cost a fortune.

Jo-Anne

I can remember in the $700-800 range for an internal one, and IIRC, I paid
well over $100 for an HP one. They weren't quite as bad as the DVD readers
that were around $1000, and that wasn't all THAT long ago! I'm waiting for
the HDTV's to drop a little more before I get a good sized one. I figure
with the advent of 3DTV, it won't be much longer before HD is affordable for
us old fogies on SSI

 

[Jo-Anne]

I can remember in the $700-800 range for an internal one, and IIRC, I paid
well over $100 for an HP one. They weren't quite as bad as the DVD readers
that were around $1000, and that wasn't all THAT long ago! I'm waiting for
the HDTV's to drop a little more before I get a good sized one. I figure
with the advent of 3DTV, it won't be much longer before HD is affordable
for us old fogies on SSI

Exactly!

Jo-Anne

 

[smlunatick]

You sure it didn't die somewhere around 7 years ago?  UPS batteries have
a lifespan from 3 to 6 years (depending on the type of battery).

Remove the old battery.  Replace it with a new one.  Don't buy it from
APC or wherever you got the UPS as their prices are ridiculously high.
Go to batteriesplus.com to find a replacement battery.

APC offers 2 year warranty on their approved battery packs and have
better end-user install experience than just getting the required
battery. Out of the box, an APC battery will have "hoods" over the
the terminals and depending on the internal wires, the positive /
negative wire will only connect to the correct terminals. A person
not experienced on replace batteries, this is much more a easier way
to go.

Jo-Anne, consider the APC Trade-Up program as the Back-Up 600 would
be undered powered for TWO PCs.

 

[Jo-Anne]

You sure it didn't die somewhere around 7 years ago? UPS batteries have
a lifespan from 3 to 6 years (depending on the type of battery).

Remove the old battery. Replace it with a new one. Don't buy it from
APC or wherever you got the UPS as their prices are ridiculously high.
Go to batteriesplus.com to find a replacement battery.

<<APC offers 2 year warranty on their approved battery packs and have
better end-user install experience than just getting the required
battery. Out of the box, an APC battery will have "hoods" over the
the terminals and depending on the internal wires, the positive /
negative wire will only connect to the correct terminals. A person
not experienced on replace batteries, this is much more a easier way
to go.

Jo-Anne, consider the APC Trade-Up program as the Back-Up 600 would
be undered powered for TWO PCs.>>


Thank you, smlunatick! I did end up buying the batteries from Batteries
Plus, and the guy there put everything back the way APC had it, using the
old hoods. I'm glad you mentioned that this UPS won't work for two
computers. I'll be careful to plug in only one at a time.

By the way, is there any UPS that works for laser printers? I was told never
to plug one into this UPS--and I think I've seen that instruction elsewhere
too. Same question for copiers.

Thank you again!

Jo-Anne

 

[LVTravel]

<<APC offers 2 year warranty on their approved battery packs and have
better end-user install experience than just getting the required
battery. Out of the box, an APC battery will have "hoods" over the
the terminals and depending on the internal wires, the positive /
negative wire will only connect to the correct terminals. A person
not experienced on replace batteries, this is much more a easier way
to go.

Jo-Anne, consider the APC Trade-Up program as the Back-Up 600 would
be undered powered for TWO PCs.>>


Thank you, smlunatick! I did end up buying the batteries from Batteries
Plus, and the guy there put everything back the way APC had it, using the
old hoods. I'm glad you mentioned that this UPS won't work for two
computers. I'll be careful to plug in only one at a time.

By the way, is there any UPS that works for laser printers? I was told
never to plug one into this UPS--and I think I've seen that instruction
elsewhere too. Same question for copiers.

Thank you again!

Jo-Anne

For even the cheapest laser printers you need an awful lot more horsepower
in the UPS than what you will normally purchase. I routinely run 1500 watt
UPSs for my router, computer and server (one UPS each) in my home and still
will not plug in a laser to them. If you want to be able to print with a
laser printer plugged into a UPS you need to consider the high current draw
when the fuser starts to heat up. Most lasers run between 350 and 1000
watts depending on printer model. Most UPS manufacturers do not recommend
plugging any printer into their UPS devices.

 

[Jo-Anne]

For even the cheapest laser printers you need an awful lot more horsepower
in the UPS than what you will normally purchase. I routinely run 1500
watt UPSs for my router, computer and server (one UPS each) in my home and
still will not plug in a laser to them. If you want to be able to print
with a laser printer plugged into a UPS you need to consider the high
current draw when the fuser starts to heat up. Most lasers run between
350 and 1000 watts depending on printer model. Most UPS manufacturers do
not recommend plugging any printer into their UPS devices.

Got it, LVTravel! So if I just want to protect my printer and copier from a
power surge, will a simple surge protector do? Or do I need something more?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

 

[LVTravel]

Got it, LVTravel! So if I just want to protect my printer and copier from
a power surge, will a simple surge protector do? Or do I need something
more?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

Yes, just make sure that they are designed to handle the power that will be
drawn through them. Most of the cheaper ones won't work for you IMHO.

 

[Jo-Anne]

Yes, just make sure that they are designed to handle the power that will
be drawn through them. Most of the cheaper ones won't work for you IMHO.

Thank you again! I'll do some checking before I buy any.

Jo-Anne

 

[smlunatick]

<<APC offers 2 year warranty on their approved battery packs and have
better end-user install experience than just getting the required
battery.  Out of the box, an APC battery will have "hoods" over the
the terminals and depending on the internal wires, the positive /
negative wire will only connect to the correct terminals.  A person
not experienced on replace batteries, this is much more a easier way
to go.

Jo-Anne,  consider the APC Trade-Up program as the Back-Up 600 would
be undered powered for TWO PCs.>>

Thank you, smlunatick! I did end up buying the batteries from Batteries
Plus, and the guy there put everything back the way APC had it, using the
old hoods. I'm glad you mentioned that this UPS won't work for two
computers. I'll be careful to plug in only one at a time.

By the way, is there any UPS that works for laser printers? I was told never
to plug one into this UPS--and I think I've seen that instruction elsewhere
too. Same question for copiers.

Thank you again!

Jo-Anne

Laser printers will usually cause UPS batteries to fail faster. It is
because the printer needs to "heat" up the laser and this usually
draws more power in a short time. As for surge protectors, never
consider the "cheap" dollar store models. Name brand models from
Belkin, APC and Tripp Lite would do. (Note: Staples brand surge
protectors seem to be OEM re-branded Belkin units.)

 

[Antares 531]

Thank you for the suggestion, Vanguard! We have a Batteries Plus in town,
but I hadn't even thought of trying there. (Truly, the original battery has
lasted all these years.)

Jo-Anne

Before you buy a replacement battery you should check the old one to
see if it can be removed. I've sometimes had problems with old
batteries in these UPS packages when the failed battery swells and can
not be removed from the UPS case without damaging or destroying the
UPS case and/or rupturing the battery.

Also, be careful that you don't get any battery acid on you, or on
something that could be damaged by it. Best to remove the old battery
out in the yard, wearing safety goggles, and do have a hose within
reach with the water on and flowing.

If the old battery can be removed without any trouble, simply put it
into a plastic container or bucket and take it to your local Batteries
Plus store. They can dispose of it prudently. Don't just toss it into
your trash barrel.

Gordon

 

[James Silverton]

Antares wrote on Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:24:34 -0500:
you don't get any battery acid on you,

or on something that could be damaged by it. Best to remove
the old battery out in the yard, wearing safety goggles, and
do have a hose within reach with the water on and flowing.

Battery acid is not that dangerous. Just don't get into your eyes on on
your clothes but UPSs usually use gel batteries that don't spill.
Battery acid on your hands is quite safely washed off and you certainly
should since there will be poisonous lead dissolved in it.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

 

[Jo-Anne]

Before you buy a replacement battery you should check the old one to
see if it can be removed. I've sometimes had problems with old
batteries in these UPS packages when the failed battery swells and can
not be removed from the UPS case without damaging or destroying the
UPS case and/or rupturing the battery.

Also, be careful that you don't get any battery acid on you, or on
something that could be damaged by it. Best to remove the old battery
out in the yard, wearing safety goggles, and do have a hose within
reach with the water on and flowing.

If the old battery can be removed without any trouble, simply put it
into a plastic container or bucket and take it to your local Batteries
Plus store. They can dispose of it prudently. Don't just toss it into
your trash barrel.

Gordon

Thank you, Gordon! I took the whole UPS to Batteries Plus, and the guy there
removed the old batteries (two 6-volt batteries, hooked up in series, not
leaking at all), found new ones to match, hooked them together, and put them
in). I love that store. The people who work there seem knowledgeable and are
certainly friendly. They also recycle the old batteries.

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

<<APC offers 2 year warranty on their approved battery packs and have
better end-user install experience than just getting the required
battery. Out of the box, an APC battery will have "hoods" over the
the terminals and depending on the internal wires, the positive /
negative wire will only connect to the correct terminals. A person
not experienced on replace batteries, this is much more a easier way
to go.

Jo-Anne, consider the APC Trade-Up program as the Back-Up 600 would
be undered powered for TWO PCs.>>

Thank you, smlunatick! I did end up buying the batteries from Batteries
Plus, and the guy there put everything back the way APC had it, using the
old hoods. I'm glad you mentioned that this UPS won't work for two
computers. I'll be careful to plug in only one at a time.

By the way, is there any UPS that works for laser printers? I was told
never
to plug one into this UPS--and I think I've seen that instruction
elsewhere
too. Same question for copiers.

Thank you again!

Jo-Anne

Laser printers will usually cause UPS batteries to fail faster. It is
because the printer needs to "heat" up the laser and this usually
draws more power in a short time. As for surge protectors, never
consider the "cheap" dollar store models. Name brand models from
Belkin, APC and Tripp Lite would do. (Note: Staples brand surge
protectors seem to be OEM re-branded Belkin units.)


Thank you again, smlunatick! I do have the printer plugged into a Tripp Lite
surge protector, and I'm going to look for one for my copier as well. Can't
imagine why it never occurred to me before to plug the copier into a surge
protector.

Jo-Anne

 

[Leythos]

Laser printers will usually cause UPS batteries to fail faster.

It's not going to cause them to FAIL FASTER, it's that the BATTERY side
of the UPS is often not capable of the 10A surge/load of the laser
printer.

If the UPS has a "Surge Only" side to it, it may be rated for enough
load to handle the Laser Printer.