Single frame movements appear erratic


D

Don Peters

I find I often need to split a scene into parts using the Split button.
Consequently, I need to do a frame-by-frame move to the correct point. But
frame-by-frame movement appears inconsistent, no matter what technique I use.
Specifically, a single-frame advance can advance one or several frames, and
may also step backward! Naturally, this is extremely frustrating.

I've tried three other video editing programs and none of them has this
problem, e.g., a single-frame advance always advances the video by exactly a
single frame.

I'm editing a DV AVI file that came in from a Hi8 tape in a Digital8
camcorder. I'm using Vista with all the latest patches, have 2Gb of memory
and plenty of disk space.

Other than that, I'm pretty happy with Windows Movie Maker.
 
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J

John Inzer

Don said:
I find I often need to split a scene into parts using the Split
button. Consequently, I need to do a frame-by-frame move to the
correct point. But frame-by-frame movement appears inconsistent, no
matter what technique I use. Specifically, a single-frame advance can
advance one or several frames, and may also step backward! Naturally,
this is extremely frustrating.

I've tried three other video editing programs and none of them has
this problem, e.g., a single-frame advance always advances the video
by exactly a single frame.

I'm editing a DV AVI file that came in from a Hi8 tape in a Digital8
camcorder. I'm using Vista with all the latest patches, have 2Gb of
memory and plenty of disk space.

Other than that, I'm pretty happy with Windows Movie Maker.
================================
I'm guessing that you are running WinXP
Movie Maker 2.1?

The following info from PapaJohn may be useful:

===

Movie Maker 2 shows you every-other-frame
when doing project editing. MM1 and Movie
Maker in Vista show you each frame.

It's usually not a problem when skipping over
the in-between frames, but sometimes you
notice a flickering frame in a clip that is a 'stray',
and you can't see or cut it out.

If you apply the Slow - Down - Half video effect
to a clip in the timeline, you are then seeing
each frame rather than every other one. You
can see the problem frame and split it out.
Then remove the effect from the clip to return
it to normal.

--

John Inzer
Digital Media MVP

Notice
This is not tech support
I am a volunteer

Solutions that work for
me may not work for you

Proceed at your own risk
 
D

Don Peters

Thank you for the reply John, but I don't think that "skipping in-between
frames" is the issue I'm having. For example, assume I'm editing a video
where an object is moving smoothly and continuously from left to right across
the field of view, and I'm looking at it by advancing one frame at a time. I
would expect to see a smooth progression of the object from left to right.
Instead, I may see the object move a bit with one advance, move much further
with another advance, then move backward a few frames with the next advance,
etc. You get quite dizzy trying to follow this!

I'm running Microsoft Windows Business Vista, Windows Movie Maker version
6.0 (Build 6000). From what you say, since I'm running Vista and I see every
frame, I definitely shouldn't have this problem.

Oh, I have a GeForce 7600GT graphics card with the latest Nvidia drivers, if
that matters.

Another thing I tried... I wrote the video out to another DV AVI file, then
read it back in and tried again. Same problem.

I also tried several ways of advancing frames using the screen buttons,
using the arrow keys, advancing in timeline mode, etc. All ways have the same
problem.

Don
 
P

PapaJohn

Don,

For info, here's the results of my first test of Vista's Movie Maker 6... to
check which frames I'm seeing... using a DV-AVI file with 100 numbered
frames as the source.

previewing in the collection shows
2 - 29s
3 - 96s
shows 97 but nothing higher... not 98 or 99

previewing on the timeline shows
3 - 96s
shows 97 but nothing higher... not 98 or 99

======= rendered to each choice in Vista Movie Maker = checked in collection

DV-AVI > dropped 26, added a second 30
DVD quality > added second 0 (zero), dropped 2, added second 3, dropped 5,
added second 6, dropped 8, added second 9, dropped 11, added second 12,
dropped 14, added second 15, etc...... in that pattern up to the end... but
went higher than 97... showing two of 99.

I did it a while ago... haven't gotten to rechecking it in Vista's SP1.
 
J

John Inzer

Don said:
Thank you for the reply John, but I don't think that "skipping
in-between frames" is the issue I'm having. For example, assume I'm
editing a video where an object is moving smoothly and continuously
from left to right across the field of view, and I'm looking at it by
advancing one frame at a time. I would expect to see a smooth
progression of the object from left to right. Instead, I may see the
object move a bit with one advance, move much further with another
advance, then move backward a few frames with the next advance, etc.
You get quite dizzy trying to follow this!

I'm running Microsoft Windows Business Vista, Windows Movie Maker
version
6.0 (Build 6000). From what you say, since I'm running Vista and I
see every frame, I definitely shouldn't have this problem.

Oh, I have a GeForce 7600GT graphics card with the latest Nvidia
drivers, if that matters.

Another thing I tried... I wrote the video out to another DV AVI
file, then read it back in and tried again. Same problem.

I also tried several ways of advancing frames using the screen
buttons, using the arrow keys, advancing in timeline mode, etc. All
ways have the same problem.

Don
===========================
Correct...the info in my message
does not apply to Vista.

FWIW...this is a WinXP newsgroup...
have you tried the Vista version?

Discussions in Windows Vista
Music, Pictures, and Video
http://tinyurl.com/yqjkwz

http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...DDB-D18D-FA0E-A366-6E527B0FBA67&lang=en&cr=US

Also...you might try the following forum:

Windows Movie Maker Forum
http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/forums/

--

John Inzer
Digital Media MVP

Notice
This is not tech support
I am a volunteer

Solutions that work for
me may not work for you

Proceed at your own risk
 
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D

Don Peters

Many thanks for that diagnostic file 100NumberedFrames.avi on your website!
It really helped me quantify the problem, which appears to be a race
condition in the software. After much experimentation, here's what I found:

If I play the entire 3.34 second video non-stop, the displayed frame numbers
correctly advance sequentially from 0 to 97 (not 98) in the Preview monitor.

Clicking the mouse at various points along the timeline in the Preview
monitor ALWAYS positions the progress cursor correctly.

Clicking frame-forward or frame-back always displays the correct frame
number IF the frame time is LESS THAN 1.0 SECONDS (frame 29).

If I click on the progress bar at any time less than 1 second, the correct
frame appears. If I click on the progress bar at any time equal to or above
1.0 seconds, the frame number is always in the 90's (usually 98).
In spite of this, the progress cursor again always moves correctly no matter
what the time.

Clicking the Play button and pausing at frame 50, and then clicking "Next
Frame", shows frame 98 continuously.
Clicking the play button and pausing at frame 50, and then clicking
"Previous Frame", also shows frame 98 continuosly.

Whatever erroneous frame is showing, keeping the "Next Frame" or "Previous
Frame" button pressed causes a rapid display of the CORRECT previous or next
frames! Rapid clicking these buttons also causes movement off of frame 98,
but to
non-predictable locations.

So this is very weird behaviour, but consistent. So I have no problem
whatsoever IF all my videos are all under 1 second in length!

Don
 
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P

PapaJohn

While you were doing that, I updated the Vista section of my website to
include my test results, with the bottom line advising those whose projects
depend on seeing each frame to use other software.

Thanks for the detailed comment.
 

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