Seriously, has anybody ever seen a serious virus problem in Windowswhen using AV protection?

[Leythos]

Probably true, but I have no evidence, even anecdotal evidence, to
indicate that it makes an appreciable difference in equipment life.

If you've worked with Electronics for any length of time, and with
devices that have bearings, you would know, without guessing, that
turning off a device increases chances of a problem when you try and use
it again. There are also times when a device fails due to normal
wear/tear/age....

 

[Leythos]

Projection noted.


I suppose if you are in sales. Development teams? Why? Except for
group online meetings, and even, then (Skype video is better) I would
think email is better...but perhaps you're right.


Fine. THEORY. Give me a real work EXAMPLE Leythos.


HA HA HA. A comedian. A combative comedian. Andrew Dice Clay your
show name?



BU LL S H IT. Now you've become the "Rex Ballard" of C.O.L.A. SQL
injection attacks are ancient history and obsolete, due to the way
commands are entered, parametrically, in ADO.NET (Windows database
language). I know, as I code. Any other falsehoods you care to
share?



Nope. You have not seen. What you've seen (and I've seen this too) is
a corporation get infected because a user installed a virus by
mistake, and sent it around to co-workers (typically via email) who
did not have the latest AV patches installed on their machines.
Corporations use old hardware and software and are often behind the
times in Safe Hex.


Oh, really? Oh. Doubtful. How did they get infected then?

Based on your cross posting changes, your inability to comprehend real
issues and their causes, I can only assume that you're trolling.

 

[Leythos]

Proves my point: a zero day attack and when did this happen? 05:30
UTC on January 25, 2003.

Ancient history, like your name.

Goodbye Leythos (sounds Greek to me!)

I see you've graduated to troll status.

 

[Peter]

(e-mail address removed)>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

Bagel, Sky, and several others have variants that can disable actual
virus checking and/or quarantine measures without letting the user
know they have been disabled. Fixing things that have been corrupted
this way can be very ugly.

I've had at least a dozen viruses over the last 10 years that have
been so difficult to remove or did such damage that I eventually had
to re-image the hard drive.

In my experience with Windows, the only reason I would have to re-
install because of a virus infection would be if I couldn't get into the
O/S at all. Either normally or in safe mode. Even then you can remove
the HD and scan it from another machine to see if it is actually a virus
prevent startup or some other problem. If you can get into the O/S you
can get rid of any virus. Period.

Virii have a source. A point of origin when the computer starts.
Eliminate the start point or points from running and the virus becomes
dormant and you can then remove it without it putting itself back on
your system.

 

[tom]

Yes, while using XP. I clicked on a site from a cigar NG that sold torch
lighters. Got shot to some chinese site and my "free" CA AV program lit up
like a xmas tree. It warned me of the infection and supposedly deleted it.
But it wasn't gone.

Been using Kaspersky ever since. Never had a problem.

 

[David W. Hodgins]

only way a properly configured Windows machine can ever be infected by
viruses or malware, namely, a zero-day attack?

Unfortunately, zero-day attacks can be more like zero week/month
attacks.

Most of the systems I've had to clean in the last few months have
had variations of the 2010-antivirus trojan, installed using
drive by downloads due to problems with Internet Explorer.
That's why the German government advised people to stop using it.
http://mashable.com/2010/01/15/german-government-stop-using-internet-explorer/

While that particular problem has since been patched, given the
history of IE, I'm sure it won't be the last.

At least it enabled me to convince those people to only use admin
accounts, when they want to install programs, and/or updates, and
to stop using IE.

The only problem now is getting them to remember to login to the
admin account, at least once a week, to check for, and install
third party updates.

These were on systems using up-to-date av/m$ software. So the
problem does still exist, but is mostly rootkits and trojans,
rather then true viruses.

Part of the problem with m$ software, in general, is brain dead
decisions, that compromise security, to supposedly make the
system easier to use. Thinks like having known software
extensions, like .exe hidden by default. I don't see how that
makes it easier to use, but sure do see how it makes it less
secure. Making the admin account, the default for new systems
is just asking for newbie users, to get into trouble.

Another case I saw last fall, the user had purchased a system
with norton antivirus installed, set to auto-update. When the
user obtained a cable connection, they instructed her to install
there freely download mcafee av. Somehow she managed to get it
partially installed, with the result that neither was working.
That one had been turned into a spambot, with multiple back door
trojans, and root kits, which required full format and reinstall,
to clear up. She only had two online accounts, both used for
email, which were compromised. Luckily she wasn't using online
banking.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

 

[RayLopez99]

But how many of those are genuine and how many are false positives?
Those ones found in the system restore folder give no indication of the
original filename and I don't have the time to start rooting around in
there to find out if the file is genuine or not, I don't know about you.

Recently, I was given a computer from a friend which had XP on it and my
AVG was fine until yesterday, when it found what it said was spyware (a
genuine file from bt called btwebcontrol.dll). Nothing wrong with it.
They used to have BT broadband.  It also found a file in the system
restore which it categorised under the same virus name, which I am
presuming is the exact same file, except it's just called A0000462.dll.

2 false positives.  It seems these days AVG is finding files in system
restore which it didn't have a problem with previously and I am happy to
accept are genuine files and not any kind of virus.  Your logs seem to
indicate the same habit from Kaspersky.

Outstanding point Pete Ives. I too have had several false positives
that gave me quite a scare.

Great point, thanks I overlooked that.

I'm not including 'false positives', no matter how annoying, as
malware. Nor stuff from Hewlett Packard, which drives me nuts
everytime I boot up, asking to update my drivers and join some stupid
HP online forum. That's my fault--I installed the program--not the
fault of Windows.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

Regards, Dave Hodgins

OK, noted. Stories about improperly installed AV programs and zero-
day attacks that are really the fault of the user (since the patch is
available) are noted.

Thanks, and that proves my point.

RL

 

[RayLopez99]

I see you've graduated to troll status.

Who cares? You like attribution it seems--so if you're American you
voted against Obama because he's black? And you know the stats about
blacks...crimes and stuff.

Troll or not, my points stand. Your 'point' is on your head. Quit
reading the signature line and start reading the content of the post.

RL

 

[David W. Hodgins]

OK, noted. Stories about improperly installed AV programs and zero-
day attacks that are really the fault of the user (since the patch is
available) are noted.
Thanks, and that proves my point.

You missed the point. The patches were not available when the
systems became infected by drive by downloads (i.e. simply
visiting a normally good web site, that had been hacked),
where the IE exploit allowed the malware to be installed
without anything requiring the user to approve the install,
or even make them aware it was being installed.

If you are going to ignore all reports of vulnerabilities in
windows being exploited, why did you bother to post the question
in the first place?

Regards, Dave Hodgins

 

[Leythos]

Who cares? You like attribution it seems--so if you're American you
voted against Obama because he's black? And you know the stats about
blacks...crimes and stuff.

Troll or not, my points stand. Your 'point' is on your head. Quit
reading the signature line and start reading the content of the post.

Your point is lost because you ignore ALL of the people that have
responded with first hand examples countering your position.

That you've resorted to attacks and cross-posting is another sign that
you've lost your position.

 

[Char Jackson]

If you've worked with Electronics for any length of time,

Just over 45 years. The end is in sight.

and with
devices that have bearings, you would know, without guessing, that
turning off a device increases chances of a problem when you try and use
it again. There are also times when a device fails due to normal
wear/tear/age....

I know what you're saying is a commonly held belief. I used to repeat
it myself, but I have to admit that looking back over the last 20-30
years that it simply isn't true. I think it used to be true in the
days of vacuum tubes, but not since then.

Here's someone who agrees with me, or vice versa:
<http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/computers-questions.html#turnoff>
<http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/how-much-juice-is-your-computer-using-at-night-145/>

The articles are mostly about saving energy, but they touch on the
power cycle issue, as well.

 

[Leythos]

Just over 45 years. The end is in sight.


I know what you're saying is a commonly held belief. I used to repeat
it myself, but I have to admit that looking back over the last 20-30
years that it simply isn't true. I think it used to be true in the
days of vacuum tubes, but not since then.

Here's someone who agrees with me, or vice versa:
<http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/computers-questions.html#turnoff>
<http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/how-much-juice-is-your-computer-using-at-night-145/>

The articles are mostly about saving energy, but they touch on the
power cycle issue, as well.

Having designed hardware for decades and been responsible for failure
analysis, I can assure you that turning off computers does contribute to
their failure when you power them back on again.

 

[none of your buisiness]

If you are going to ignore all reports of vulnerabilities in
windows being exploited, why did you bother to post the question
in the first place?

Because Dave, Raylopez99 is a paid Microsoft shill & his only intention is
to troll the newsgroups with Anti-Linux FUD & lies about Microsoft
products.

he, along with the other Microsoft Shills also have a nasty habit of
cross-posting their garbage in other groups & setting the follow-ups to
comp.os.linux.advocacy just for the purpose of disrupting all of the NG's
involved.

here is the groups that he posted this particular subject:

comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.anti-virus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt

and like always, he has set the followups to:
comp.os.linux.advocacy

it is best just to killfile this bastard as he is not interested in a
intelligent discussion regarding the benefits of GNU/Linux. all he, & his
shill friends are interested in is starting flame wars over operating
systems and posting stupid, illogical & false statements about Microsoft
products.

 

[gufus]

From: RayLopez99
Subj: Seriously, has anybody ever seen a serious virus problem in Windows
when using AV protection?Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT)

Hello, RayLopez99!

You wrote on Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT):


R> It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
R> catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
R> about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
R> seen one in the wild...


Avira Premium came out with version 10, haven't looked at it much yet. It
was automatically updated on my server.

gufus
--
K Klement

Enhance your marketing at http://www.gypsy-designs.com
mailto:[email protected]
Gypsy Designs Fax: (403) 242-3221

 

[ToolPackinMama]

You mean like maintenance that happens after the users are done using
the computer?

You mean like AV scans that happen at night so that they don't impact
the user during the normal use hours?

You mean like windows updates between 3AM and 4AM?

You mean like remotely connecting to the computer to work?

Yes those are all good reasons.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

If you've worked with Electronics for any length of time, and with
devices that have bearings, you would know, without guessing, that
turning off a device increases chances of a problem when you try and use
it again. There are also times when a device fails due to normal
wear/tear/age....

You mean if I actually use my tires for stop and go traffic that they
may wear out sooner than if I hypothetically drove and drove and never
stopped? Hmm! That's interesting!

But wouldn't I use more gas if I never stopped? Gotta admit there is
something to that.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

Having designed hardware for decades and been responsible for failure
analysis, I can assure you that turning off computers does contribute to
their failure when you power them back on again.

Never mind the damage infected computers do while they are pointlessly
left running.

Oh, and never mind the energy savings, either.

I would never base a decision like that on whether it speeds up the
wearing-out process. There are larger questions to consider.

Maybe it wears out the switch on my lamp to turn it on and off, but do
any of you think we should therefore leave all lamps burning night and
day? Nobody would assert that we should, for fear of seeming foolish,
because to everybody THAT is obviously preposterous.

 

[Dustin Cook]

If you've worked with Electronics for any length of time, and with
devices that have bearings, you would know, without guessing, that
turning off a device increases chances of a problem when you try and
use it again. There are also times when a device fails due to normal
wear/tear/age....

That's what I consider to be... common sense, but as you point out, You
probably won't know this if you haven't been a geek at some point.

 

[SteveH]

You mean like windows updates between 3AM and 4AM?

Hell would freeze over before I allowed MS to install updates on my PC in my
absence. As many here surely know, not /all/ MS updates are safe or even
neecessary for all Windows PC's. It can doenload them in the night (if I
leave my PC on), but it will install them when I've seen what it wants to
install.