Seriously, has anybody ever seen a serious virus problem in Windowswhen using AV protection?


R

RayLopez99

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?

One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.

Who is more right?

BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=ht...22.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEDInyvV2WgWDzeAWeAjzJKLymkDA

It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
seen one in the wild...

RL
 
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P

Peter Köhlmann

RayLopez99 said:
Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?
Yes

One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.

Who is more right?
So the estimate that around 30% of all windows computers are infected is
"rare problems"
BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av- comparatives.org/images/stories/test/ondret/avc_report22.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEDInyvV2WgWDzeAWeAjzJKLymkDA

It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
seen one in the wild...
In short, you brag about those new viruses found by AV software.
And then gallantly forget about those 31% to 86% *not* found.

That you are incredibly stupid has been proven time and again, the last
instances were your imbecile claims of "open source"

But this again shows that you are a lot dumber than dirt

And your problem obviously is that you are not just /acting/ dumb. You
*are* dumb. Incredibly dumb
 
T

trigonometry1972

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?

One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion.  But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.

Who is more right?

BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av-comparatives.org/image...

It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%).  And we're taking
about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
seen one in the wild...

RL
What ever you do don't get Panda AV software, IMO.
 
T

trigonometry1972

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?

One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion.  But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.

Who is more right?

BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av-comparatives.org/image...

It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%).  And we're taking
about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
seen one in the wild...

RL
Pretty dismal results on the part of the payware AV programs.
~50 to 70 percent and that is being generous.
 
P

peterwn

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?
Yes. I had to clean up a Windows laptop last year despite things
being kept up to date and AV installed. The AV was bloody hopeless at
setecting it despite being kept up to date.
 
F

Felis silvestris

*raises hand*
about 200 Windows desktops were knocked out at my latest $orkplace when
someone connected an infected laptop to the LAN. This was an office of one
of the world's largest outsourcing companies, well protected by commercial
AV systems.

It took the IT staff a few hours to clean up the mess. Unfortunately, we two
Linux users missed the opportunity to point out to the manglement that we
were able to continue working ...

The incidence report from offices world wide was full of virus alerts and
attacks.
 
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L

Lusotec

RayLopez99 said:
Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?
Yes I have, *many* *many* times!

There is nothing rare about a machine running up-to-date free or commercial
anti-virus software and still be fully compromised, usually with several
species of serious malware (e.g. root kits, key loggers, spam bots, ransom
ware, egold stealer).

Fully updated anti-virus software like Avast, AVG, Kapersky, f-prot, Norton,
etc, are by no means a guarantee of safety against malware.
One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.
You have a wrong impression about lots of subjects.
Who is more right?
You certainly are not.
BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
http://www.av->comparatives.org/images/stories/test/ondret/avc_report22.pdf

It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%).
If the number one anti-virus catches *only* 70% of all viruses, then it lets
30% of them pass. That is just proof of failure, not success and definitely
not a rare occurrence.
And we're taking about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure
you'll never seen one in the wild...
The real problem are the new viruses, obviously, not known by the anti-virus
programs. The heuristics used by the anti-virus are also of little use to
detect new viruses since any capable virus developer can test his creation
against a good number of anti-virus and tweak the binary until it is not
detected.

Regards.
 
S

SteveH

RayLopez99 said:
Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?
Seriously, are you having a laugh?
 
L

Leythos

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?

One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.

Who is more right?

BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=ht...22.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEDInyvV2WgWDzeAWeAjzJKLymkDA

It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
seen one in the wild...

RL
In the 30+ years I've been working with computers I've had exactly 1
malware on a computer that I own or manage for clients - that's
thousands of workstations and hundreds of servers over that time.

In the case of the 1 malware, the machine was not secured, was basically
behind a NAT, using Local Admin, and was running Symantec End Point
Protection 11.0.4 (or 11.4.0, can't remember) - the malware gained
complete control of the machine in seconds after being redirected to a
malicious website.

I switched to Avira Antivir and connected to the same website and the
malware was blocked - I have moved myself and clients to Avira and not
had any infections.

We test with 5 malware scanners monthly.
 
B

bbgruff

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?
A good question, but perhaps you are asking the wrong people?
Would it be better (just as an example) to address your question to
Manchester City Council or to the Greater Manchester Police?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8492669.stm

It is of course quite possible that the administrators were not so
knowledgable as yourself, and would therefore benefit from your advice.
Judging by the cost of outbreaks like these, I'm sure you could make a lot
of money - the cost seems to work out at about £1,000,000 a time to clean
up the mess.
Go for it :)
 
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L

larry moe 'n curly

RayLopez99 said:
Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?

One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.
I was running AVG ver. 8 and got some malware that hogged all the CPU
time. It caused operation to slow so much that I couldn't run the
computer and had to transfer the HD to a computer with a dual core
CPU. A full scan with AVG indicated the problem but couldn't fix it.
Norton detected nothing, and free online scans by Trend and PC Pit
Stop didn't fix it (I don't remember if they detected it), but Bit
Defender partially did, and the rest of the problem was solve with
either ComboFix or SmithFraudFix.
 
P

(PeteCresswell)

Per RayLopez99:
Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?
Yes but....

The AV popped it's "Warning" dialog on an incoming email message,
*but* the user did not heed that dialog and took the trouble to
click whatever button told the AV to ignore the virus instead of
clicking the default button which told the AV to delete the
virus.
 
M

Moshe

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?
It happens all the time.
Usually brought in from outside sources and when the person
bypasses the checking.

It's like everything else in the world, you can't prevent an idiot
from circumventing the tools put in place to protect him.
 
R

RayLopez99

Yes.  I had to clean up a Windows laptop last year despite things
being kept up to date and AV installed.  The AV was bloody hopeless at
setecting it despite being kept up to date.
OK fine. Outlier. One in a million I would reckon.

Tell us what virus it was, as that info should not be confidential.
Unless it was so obscure that only one user, your client, had it.

Anybody else?

RL
 
R

RayLopez99

In the 30+ years I've been working with computers I've had exactly 1
malware on a computer that I own or manage for clients - that's
thousands of workstations and hundreds of servers over that time.

In the case of the 1 malware, the machine was not secured, was basically
behind a NAT, using Local Admin, and was running Symantec End Point
Protection 11.0.4 (or 11.4.0, can't remember) - the malware gained
complete control of the machine in seconds after being redirected to a
malicious website.

I switched to Avira Antivir and connected to the same website and the
malware was blocked - I have moved myself and clients to Avira and not
had any infections.

We test with 5 malware scanners monthly.
Thank you Sir. You are a scholar and a gentleman. A true voice of
reason in a wilderness of babbling buffoons and hominid baboons.

RL
 
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R

RayLopez99

I was running AVG ver. 8 and got some malware that hogged all the CPU
time.  It caused operation to slow so much that I couldn't run the
computer and had to transfer the HD to a computer with a dual core
CPU.  A full scan with AVG indicated the problem but couldn't fix it.
Norton detected nothing, and free online scans by Trend and PC Pit
Stop didn't fix it (I don't remember if they detected it), but Bit
Defender partially did, and the rest of the problem was solve with
either ComboFix or SmithFraudFix.
What OS? What year? What was the name of the virus if I can ask?
That sounds incredible.

RL
 
R

RayLopez99

It happens all the time.
Usually brought in from outside sources and when the person
bypasses the checking.

It's like everything else in the world, you can't prevent an idiot
from circumventing the tools put in place to protect him.
Moshe, your examples are fine, but they are not what I'm talking
about. That's not a real example since the user deliberately
circumvented safeguards to keep out the virus from their system. In
other words, anybody can disable their AV software, or ignore repeated
warnings, and "install" the virus on their system deliberately (or
even 'accidentally' through negligence).

That's not a true virus infection.

RL
 
S

SteveH

RayLopez99 said:
OK fine. Outlier. One in a million I would reckon.

Tell us what virus it was, as that info should not be confidential.
Unless it was so obscure that only one user, your client, had it.

Anybody else?

RL
Are you fer real?

NO commercial AV product stops all viruses/malware. I doubt a month goes by
where I'm not cleaning one nasty or another off of my Windows PC. And if its
not mine, I'm doing about two a month from other people.
And my PC has Kaspersky Internet Security, an I regularly run Malwarebytes,
Superantispyware, Spybot and Crap Cleaner. And once a month it gets an
additional scan with the GMER rootkit scanner.
It depends entirely on what you use yer PC for, what websites you visit etc.
 
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R

RayLopez99

Are you fer real?
Yes, but I doubt you are.
NO commercial AV product stops all viruses/malware. I doubt a month goes by
where I'm not cleaning one nasty or another off of my Windows PC. And if its
not mine, I'm doing about two a month from other people.
And my PC has Kaspersky Internet Security, an I regularly run Malwarebytes,
Superantispyware, Spybot and Crap Cleaner. And once a month it gets an
additional scan with the GMER rootkit scanner.
It depends entirely on what you use yer PC for, what websites you visit etc.
What websites are you visiting? I have never caught a virus, and I
visit regularly the top three porn sites that come up when you Google
"FREE PORN".

How can you possibly be cleaning at least one nasty every month?

We don't buy it. Name the last virus you cleaned up.

RL
 

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