security@home

[RJK]

http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm
This web-site contains lots of contradictions !
....and it would take a lot of TIME to work through some of the things he
suggests - lots of which which could also cripple your PC.

It's actually quite cunning, the web site itself is sort of succinct but, at
almost every turn leads you off to somewhere, (where if you don't have lots
of PC / OS and application software and/or Internet experience), you could
end up getting your PC in a real mess.

He criticizes "internet security" applications, and the text on his site
could be misunderstood as giving advice to not use an internet security
application at all ! ...then he hyperlinks you off to a site where you
could end up taking advice to switch off XP services that you may need, by
taking losts of time to manually work through XP services.

Most home users don't implement common sense on the internet and SIMPLY DO
NOT want to know what a visual basic script, ActiveX control, Java Applet
actually is, and would rather trust their defenses to applications such as
Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite.

I wonder if the http://www.argos.co.uk web site loads and runs on B. Nice's
PC ?

regards, Richard

....NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !

 

[B. Nice]

...NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !

Why don't you just tell us right away which security company you
represent so we know who we are dealing with.

/B. Nice

 

[Bruce Hagen]

Did you have an Outlook Express question, or did you just decide to include
this newsgroup in your crosspost?

 

[RJK]

I don't represent any company !
....I do help lots of people, and friends, with messes they've got themsleves
into, from and on the internet, and if I thought for a moment that they
could, or would at least spend some time and try to understand some of the
basic internet security principles and good practices outlined on your site,
I would direct them there !
....and I would direct them to
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
....and lots of other reputable places but, along with scripts, ActiveX, XP
Java and Sun Java runtime, email attachments etc., correct use of IE
internet zones and other IE security settings ... I could go on and on
......they simply don't want to know about the hosts file, or anything else !
They seem happier to be just furious with their PC and browser software
because the one or two websites they've tried to visit won't correctly load,
run, or display in their IE browser window. ...so they yank down their IE6
internet surity zone setting until it does load etc.
....then there's the, (in my view), badly designed websites where the URL
changes every time one clicks a link to progress into the same site ...and
then there's the IE https window that opens from the "same" website that's
configured to be a new window with no address slot, and nothing in the title
bar and no clue, (other than right-clicking for properties), for the user,
(who can't remember or even grasp the concept of a right-click), that the
URL has yet again changed to one that's not yet been added into IE's trusted
sites zone and - hence an empty ssl window with "Done" on that Windows'
status bar !

My contention is simply that there are several internet security suite
applications that do quite well looking after lots of security aspects for
novice and/or stubborn users ! The reference on your web-site, to being
"pestered" with firewall alerts is not really fair - and is a little
misleading, in that a freshly installed firewall often has to be trained up,
and in a short time will not bother the user quite so much. Here of course
we could get into the realms of novice users setting rules incorrectly e.g.
for outbound connections because he or she doesn't recognise exactly what's
trying to get out, ...or in !
....but, there you go - I've said my piece again

If I was attempting to make a living from "internet security" then I suppose
I can see where you're "coming from" on your site. Lots of good advice
that's beyond the understanding of most "ordinary users," - mainly due to
individual's time restraints, plus a good sprinkling of criticism aimed at
internet security appplications. Not that I was intending to imply that you
make a living from internet security advice - this was an impression I got
after looking around your web-site.

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

....possibly clicked on a wrong NG, ...or could there have been a tenuous
link, in my mind - at the time, to OE via aspects of security ? !

regards, Richard

 

[B. Nice]

I don't represent any company !
...I do help lots of people, and friends, with messes they've got themsleves
into, from and on the internet, and if I thought for a moment that they
could, or would at least spend some time and try to understand some of the
basic internet security principles and good practices outlined on your site,
I would direct them there !
...and I would direct them to
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
...and lots of other reputable places but, along with scripts, ActiveX, XP
Java and Sun Java runtime, email attachments etc., correct use of IE
internet zones and other IE security settings ... I could go on and on
.....they simply don't want to know about the hosts file, or anything else !

They don't need to know. All they need to do to reach a reasonable
level of surfing security is to install a robust browser that is build
for dealing with insecure networks like the internet and to be able to
destinguish between sites they trust and sites they don't. If they
can't do something as simple as that, they are better off pulling the
plug.

But of course, if people choose to stay ignorant, and therefore will
get repeatedly burned, that's their choice. I offer some groundrules
(that actually work) for those interrested - nothing else. People are
free to take my advice and free to ignore it and look for advice at
one of the gazillion other sites available. I really don't care.

The only thing I do care about is the overselling nonsense, especially
concerning features like "outbound control" and "making you invisible
on the internet", that many "firewall software companies" can get away
with on their web-sites.

They seem happier to be just furious with their PC and browser software
because the one or two websites they've tried to visit won't correctly load,
run, or display in their IE browser window. ...so they yank down their IE6
internet surity zone setting until it does load etc.
...then there's the, (in my view), badly designed websites where the URL
changes every time one clicks a link to progress into the same site ...and
then there's the IE https window that opens from the "same" website that's
configured to be a new window with no address slot, and nothing in the title
bar and no clue, (other than right-clicking for properties), for the user,
(who can't remember or even grasp the concept of a right-click), that the
URL has yet again changed to one that's not yet been added into IE's trusted
sites zone and - hence an empty ssl window with "Done" on that Windows'
status bar !

As long as people don't understand that IE is a security threat by
design there is'nt that much to do.

My contention is simply that there are several internet security suite
applications that do quite well looking after lots of security aspects for
novice and/or stubborn users !

I see marketing is doing a great job.

The reference on your web-site, to being
"pestered" with firewall alerts is not really fair - and is a little
misleading, in that a freshly installed firewall often has to be trained up,

Which a novice of course is'nt able to do properly anyway.

And what is your opinion about all the nonsense warnings about
"attacks" that your "personal firewall" has hindered? A good firewall
is there to protect you. Not to brag about stopping "attacks" that
mostly are'nt real attacks anyway. It should just protect you and shut
up.

The only time it seems to keep quiet is when malware is bypassing it.
At the time you really need it to speak up, it won't.

and in a short time will not bother the user quite so much. Here of course
we could get into the realms of novice users setting rules incorrectly e.g.
for outbound connections because he or she doesn't recognise exactly what's
trying to get out, ...or in !
...but, there you go - I've said my piece again

True malware does'nt care about your security suites.

/B. Nice

 

[Ted Zieglar]

"The only thing I do care about is the overselling nonsense..."

I don't see a problem with that, so long as you include a disclaimer:
ATTENTION - THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION.

BTW, I found a few newsgroups that you forgot to cross-post to.

 

[B. Nice]

BTW, I found a few newsgroups that you forgot to cross-post to.

Tell that to RJK

 

[RJK]

Tell that to RJK

 

[RJK]

...I think I meant to select 2 NG.s using Ctrl+left-click but, held Shift and
selected a range of my subscribed NG's ..by the look of it...
....well that's my theory !

regards, Richard

 

[PA Bear]

What mind? <eg>

 

[RJK]

Whhooah ! that hurt ! ... not really ...no sense - no feeling

regards, Richard

 

[Guest]

This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
question(pop-upblocker OK) Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the
rules. But I need to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after
multiple attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
Microsoft related.
I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting updates for
Office and other administrative topics? I have since changed my setting to
off for Updates but I check Windows Update every other day. I am one of
those "newbies". trying to find answers to my own questions but after going
from one site to another, I just quit. I have all the "Dummy" books and I
tried to find out what NFTS meant and it isn't in any glossery I was checking
and I wrote this as an example to what I have been going thru to find the
info I need. I get quite frustrated and just quit. Any suggestions would be
helpful. I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and this
forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out answers but
unfortunately I will end this reply more confused. By the way I went to
argos.co and is there something I missed? I am now going to Richard's other
site he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info. And yes I would
like to know what a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find
the answer on Microsoft.com drove me crazy-er. I have been to other forums
so I am not a complete novice and now I running around in circles and driving
anyone who might read this crazy!
Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find answers to
questions.
Jody

 

[Phil Weldon]

'Jody' wrote, in part:
| This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
| question(pop-upblocker OK)
_____

Skimmed over once lightly, but not read.

Your post is so long any question you might have is hidden. Try a new post
that starts a new thread. Make sure the subject line includes the question
and that the question is ALSO included in the body of the post. Do not
include irrelevant information. Post only to the most relevant newsgroups.
More than two or three crossposts are rarely necessary.
Complaints and venting will reduce the number of helpful replies.

Phil Weldon

| This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
| question(pop-upblocker OK) Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the
| rules. But I need to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after
| multiple attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
| Microsoft related.
| I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting updates
for
| Office and other administrative topics? I have since changed my setting
to
| off for Updates but I check Windows Update every other day. I am one of
| those "newbies". trying to find answers to my own questions but after
going
| from one site to another, I just quit. I have all the "Dummy" books and I
| tried to find out what NFTS meant and it isn't in any glossery I was
checking
| and I wrote this as an example to what I have been going thru to find the
| info I need. I get quite frustrated and just quit. Any suggestions would
be
| helpful. I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and this
| forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out answers but
| unfortunately I will end this reply more confused. By the way I went to
| argos.co and is there something I missed? I am now going to Richard's
other
| site he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info. And yes I
would
| like to know what a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find
| the answer on Microsoft.com drove me crazy-er. I have been to other
forums
| so I am not a complete novice and now I running around in circles and
driving
| anyone who might read this crazy!
| Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find answers to
| questions.
| Jody
|
|
|
| "RJK" wrote:
|
| > http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm
| > This web-site contains lots of contradictions !
| > ....and it would take a lot of TIME to work through some of the things
he
| > suggests - lots of which which could also cripple your PC.
| >
| > It's actually quite cunning, the web site itself is sort of succinct
but, at
| > almost every turn leads you off to somewhere, (where if you don't have
lots
| > of PC / OS and application software and/or Internet experience), you
could
| > end up getting your PC in a real mess.
| >
| > He criticizes "internet security" applications, and the text on his site
| > could be misunderstood as giving advice to not use an internet security
| > application at all ! ...then he hyperlinks you off to a site where you
| > could end up taking advice to switch off XP services that you may need,
by
| > taking losts of time to manually work through XP services.
| >
| > Most home users don't implement common sense on the internet and SIMPLY
DO
| > NOT want to know what a visual basic script, ActiveX control, Java
Applet
| > actually is, and would rather trust their defenses to applications such
as
| > Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite.
| >
| > I wonder if the http://www.argos.co.uk web site loads and runs on B.
Nice's
| > PC ?
| >
| > regards, Richard
| >
| > ....NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !
| >
| >

 

[Ted Zieglar]

What, exactly, is your question for the newsgroup? We invite you to be
concise.

We also invite you to pick one newsgroup for your post, instead of
cross-posting all over the place.

 

[RJK]

It's usually me that skims through posts, then a few minutes later -
re-reads them and has to make corrections !
My comments are inline - (inserted into your post below)
.....if you can find your post again that is !

regards, Richard

This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
question(pop-upblocker OK) Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the
rules. But I need to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after
multiple attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
Microsoft related.

....There is an inference here that you appear to think that by posting your
message here that Microsoft will answer your problems. This is not the
case - the MVP's (Microsoft Valued Profesionals) and other people who
respond and use these MS NG's are volunteers.

I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting updates
for
Office and other administrative topics? I have since changed my setting
to
off for Updates but I check Windows Update every other day. I am one of
those "newbies". trying to find answers to my own questions but after
going
from one site to another, I just quit. I have all the "Dummy" books and I
tried to find out what NFTS meant and it isn't in any glossery I was
checking
and I wrote this as an example to what I have been going thru to find the
info I need. I get quite frustrated and just quit.

Don't "Quit," use Google Search Engine, it's VERY good - and keep reading
!
http://www.google.com ...e.g. NTFS (new technologies file system) will
give you thousands of hits !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS

Any suggestions would be

helpful. I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and this
forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out answers but
unfortunately I will end this reply more confused.

Windows Defender, as you're probably already aware is an anti-malware
program. It's quite well behaved and I've not had problems running it
alongside Grisofts' Ewido (now Anti-Spyware), and other anti-spyware
applications. In my opinion it should not be considered a comprehensive
anti-spyware program / real-time scanner. A good one is here at
http://www.grisoft.com

By the way I went to

argos.co and is there something I missed?

If http://www.argos.co.uk displays and works correctly in your web browser
window - then ok ...perhaps ! I use Argos as an example because it's
built using XP Javascript. If Active Scripting is switched off in the IE
Security Zone that's being applied to this web site, as it loads in your web
browser window, it will not correctly load and display. It's not wise to
have Active scripting enabled in the Internet zone, in case you stumble into
a nasty web site that's built to damage your PC / invade your privacy etc. -
have it enabled in the Trusted Sites zone and manually add web addresses,
(that you fully trust will NOT do nasty things to your PC), into the Trusted
Sites list so that their "scripts" (or 'code,' if you prefer, that the web
site is built with), can run properly.

I am now going to Richard's other

site he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info. And yes I
would
like to know what a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find
the answer on Microsoft.com drove me crazy-er.

Google !

I have been to other forums

so I am not a complete novice and now I running around in circles and
driving
anyone who might read this crazy!
Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find answers to
questions.
Jody

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

regards, Richard

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM]

This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
question(pop-upblocker OK) Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the
rules. But I need to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after
multiple attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
Microsoft related.
I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting updates
for
Office and other administrative topics? I have since changed my setting
to
off for Updates but I check Windows Update every other day. I am one of
those "newbies". trying to find answers to my own questions but after
going
from one site to another, I just quit. I have all the "Dummy" books and I
tried to find out what NFTS meant and it isn't in any glossery I was
checking
and I wrote this as an example to what I have been going thru to find the
info I need. I get quite frustrated and just quit. Any suggestions would
be
helpful. I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and this
forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out answers but
unfortunately I will end this reply more confused. By the way I went to
argos.co and is there something I missed? I am now going to Richard's
other
site he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info. And yes I
would
like to know what a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find
the answer on Microsoft.com drove me crazy-er. I have been to other
forums
so I am not a complete novice and now I running around in circles and
driving
anyone who might read this crazy!
Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find answers to
questions.
Jody

Your post is confusing, but I take it your question is: "why I am getting
updates for
Office and other administrative topics?"

Is Office installed?
What other administrative topics?

Updates for Windows Defender signatures are distributed through Windows
Updates.

If you have chosen Microsoft Updates on the Windows Updates sites you will
get updates for Microsoft Office programs you have installed plus, perhaps,
other Microsoft programs.

I guess your long list of newsgroups is due to replying to RJK's post.

If you have trouble finding replies there's nothing we can do about it as
long as you use that terrible Web interface instead of Outlook Express.
Especially since you do not include an email address and apparently don't
check the Web interface' box to be notified of replies to your post.

 

[Guest]

Your post is confusing, but I take it your question is: "why I am getting
updates for
Office and other administrative topics?"

Is Office installed?
What other administrative topics?

Updates for Windows Defender signatures are distributed through Windows
Updates.

If you have chosen Microsoft Updates on the Windows Updates sites you will
get updates for Microsoft Office programs you have installed plus, perhaps,
other Microsoft programs.

I guess your long list of newsgroups is due to replying to RJK's post.

If you have trouble finding replies there's nothing we can do about it as
long as you use that terrible Web interface instead of Outlook Express.
Especially since you do not include an email address and apparently don't
check the Web interface' box to be notified of replies to your post.

I just found this reply in my e-mail and thought I had followed thru, but obviously not,sorry. I did not mean to be irresponsible. This whole thread was so confusing, I think I just couldn't find a way to reply. Why does the whole previous post have to be included in a reply to my question,? thereby finding any sort of answer very difficult. I would read and re-read each post thinking it may have an answer, albeit however badly the question was asked. I understood about the number of administrative /office etc I have installed which would dictate whether to go to Windows or Microsoft updates. Well, I started without any but when it was set to automatic, it downloaded and installed 36 updates before I had a chance to change the setting, but I still assumed it was on Windows. I now have Microsoft ++CC whatever that is on my programs along with NetFramework and all of its updates. It is too much trouble to go thru each update and find the guilty ones and uninstall them, so

not only did I give up, I went to Firefox and never looked back. I still check every couple of weeks and install the critical ones. I know this is more than you wanted to know, but I bet I am no the only one out there who does not use IE anymore.
I still don't understand your reference to the "interface" I was using and
something about Outlook Express. What is that all about? And just to be
sure I went to my preferences page and made sure my e-mail address was there
and that I could be contacted, And why would I e-mail you and not go thru
the forum? It was those inferences I did not understand nor like and is the
reason I haven't been back. But I didn't want to just quit coming here, you
guys just completely and (I know this is easy to do!) going in circles.
I received notification, obviously, of replies, so what are you talking about?
Thanks for the answers and help that I did get - my 'ol brain is suffering
with CSR.
Jody

 

[Rock]

not only did I give up, I went to Firefox and never looked back. I still
check every couple of weeks and install the critical ones. I know this is
more than you wanted to know, but I bet I am no the only one out there who
does not use IE anymore.
I still don't understand your reference to the "interface" I was using
and
something about Outlook Express. What is that all about? And just to be
sure I went to my preferences page and made sure my e-mail address was
there
and that I could be contacted, And why would I e-mail you and not go
thru
the forum? It was those inferences I did not understand nor like and is
the
reason I haven't been back. But I didn't want to just quit coming here,
you
guys just completely and (I know this is easy to do!) going in circles.
I received notification, obviously, of replies, so what are you talking
about?
Thanks for the answers and help that I did get - my 'ol brain is suffering
with CSR.
Jody

It's hard to understand your reply. You are rambling, almost like a stream
of consciousness mind dump. I was not part of the original thread, but I
have tried to read and understand both your original post and your reply.
Neither one makes much sense.

It is normal procedure to quote at least a part, if not all, of the message
to which one replies. This is actually a newsgroup, not a forum. Many
people use a newsreader to access it and only download the most recent
messages so the need to quote the previous message is imperative to keep an
understanding of the thread.

As to your not understanding the reference to the interface and outlook
express, you are accessing this newsgroup using the web access or interface.
That interface is just plain lousy. As I stated before this actually is
Usenet newsgroup. You would be much better off using a newsreader to access
it. XP comes with Outlook Express which can be set up for newsgroup access.

Here is a link with info on how to setup Outlook Express for newsgroup
access:
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

As to your problem with updates, I don't know what you were doing, but
updates don't just automatically install themselves. You have to tell them
to install. So you did something. Confusion seems to be rampant in your
computing existence. Good luck to you.

Oh, and here are some links with some good info on how to make a good
newsgroup post. To start with, composing the message with good grammar,
spelling, punctuation and capitalization helps loads. Break up paragraphs -
no more than 5 or 6 lines maximum. One thought per paragraph. Include
relevant details, leave out extraneous ramblings. One issue per post.

Making Good Newsgroup Posts

 

[Guest]

Itum's hard to understand your reply. You are rambling, almost like a stream
of consciousness mind dump. I was not part of the original thread, but I
have tried to read and understand both your original post and your reply.
Neither one makes much sense.

It is normal procedure to quote at least a part, if not all, of the message
to which one replies. This is actually a newsgroup, not a forum. Many
people use a newsreader to access it and only download the most recent
messages so the need to quote the previous message is imperative to keep an
understanding of the thread.

As to your not understanding the reference to the interface and outlook
express, you are accessing this newsgroup using the web access or interface.
That interface is just plain lousy. As I stated before this actually is
Usenet newsgroup. You would be much better off using a newsreader to access
it. XP comes with Outlook Express which can be set up for newsgroup access.

Here is a link with info on how to setup Outlook Express for newsgroup
access:
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

As to your problem with updates, I don't know what you were doing, but
updates don't just automatically install themselves. You have to tell them
to install. So you did something. Confusion seems to be rampant in your
computing existence. Good luck to you.

Oh, and here are some links with some good info on how to make a good
newsgroup post. To start with, composing the message with good grammar,
spelling, punctuation and capitalization helps loads. Break up paragraphs -
no more than 5 or 6 lines maximum. One thought per paragraph. Include
relevant details, leave out extraneous ramblings. One issue per post.

Making Good Newsgroup Posts

" hard to understand your reply. You are rambling, almost like a stream

of consciousness mind dump. I was not part of the original thread, but I
have tried to read and understand both your original post and your reply.
Neither one makes much sense." I wasn't I am getting so angry I am having to retype almose every word., I wasn't in the original thread either but if this is how a person is treated in a newswhatever, I want no part. I have to clear this up and oh my it is not in the correct paragraph. I had my updates set to automatic and when Dell didn't give me the time to change it , before I went on line THAT is how I received the updates, which if the only way to receive "automatic updates" which does take the users intervention. my my my how stupid did you think i recieved the I am quitting here. All I wanted was help not a course in grammar nor your lesson in psych(medical field) which is what I do. So don't give someone new that ends up making them feel like the POS that you made me feel.

Jody
THE END GO HURT SOMEONE ELSE OH DON'T E-MAIL ME AS YOU ORDERED ME NOT TO DO
TO YOU WHO THE HELL ARE YOU ANYWAY but don't waste my time just please be
someone who helps a new person all you did was hurt me