Safe Mode boot question

[Ken]

My sister lives hundreds of miles away and had her hard drive become
corrupt. It would not boot into any mode from the boot menu, including
a prompt or Safe Mode. She has XP Home.

Since we had cloned her hard drive, I walked her through removing the
old one and installing the clone drive. Everything worked just fine,
but of course any changes made after the cloning of the original drive
needed to be restored.

I am suggesting to her that she ship me her corrupt HD so that I might
see if I can repair it for her. My hope was to take the corrupt drive
and place it as a slave on my computer to see if I could read the
NTBTLOG.TXT file to learn where it failed. If that worked, I hope to
replace the corrupt file with a good file.

I realize I could not boot into the GUIf I were successful, since I
know my computer is not identical to hers. My question is: Can I boot
into Safe Mode on my computer with her HD to see if I have reason to
believe I have fixed her problem? If not Safe Mode, would booting to a
prompt mess up the HD necessitating activation once I sent it back to her?

I have other options such as walking her through a cloning of the drive
she is presently using, but I am a little leery doing that over the
phone. I welcome all comments.

 

[Jose]

        My sister lives hundreds of miles away and had her hard drive become
corrupt.  It would not boot into any mode from the boot menu, including
a prompt or Safe Mode.  She has XP Home.

        Since we had cloned her hard drive, I walked her through removing the
old one and installing the clone drive.  Everything worked just fine,
but of course any changes made after the cloning of the original drive
needed to be restored.

        I am suggesting to her that she ship me her corrupt HD sothat I might
see if I can repair it for her.  My hope was to take the corrupt drive
and place it as a slave on my computer to see if I could read the
NTBTLOG.TXT file to learn where it failed.  If that worked, I hope to
replace the corrupt file with a good file.

        I realize I could not boot into the GUIf I were successful, since I
know my computer is not identical to hers.  My question is:  Can I boot
into Safe Mode on my computer with her HD to see if I have reason to
believe I have fixed her problem?  If not Safe Mode, would booting to a
prompt mess up the HD necessitating activation once I sent it back to her?

        I have other options such as walking her through a cloning of the drive
she is presently using, but I am a little leery doing that over the
phone.  I welcome all comments.

Maybe we can concentrate on why her drive will not boot in any mode -
what does that mean and what happens when you try Safe Mode or Regular
mode?

Sometimes the can't boot problems are not hard to figure out, but the
symptoms are important and need to be specific.

Just "won't boot" is a very common report, but is not enough to go on
unless you want to just try things that might work, could be and
maybe. More details results in faster resolution, fewer forum
transactions and less wheel spinning.

Does she have any bootable CDs - like an XP installation CD, bootable
CDs from the hardware vendor (Dell, Compaq, etc.) or a CD just to boot
the Windows Recovery Console? It is easy to create a RC disk and you
can do a lot with just that on these kinds of problems.

There will not be an ntbtlog.txt file unless you specifically chose to
create one on the next boot, so chances are - there isn't one. It has
to be created on purpose.

If you get her HDD and "fix" it using your hardware, it may not work
when you put it back in her hardware. I would try to fix it on her
hardware first.

More details will get you the best advice.

 

[Mark Adams]

My sister lives hundreds of miles away and had her hard drive become
corrupt. It would not boot into any mode from the boot menu, including
a prompt or Safe Mode. She has XP Home.

Since we had cloned her hard drive, I walked her through removing the
old one and installing the clone drive. Everything worked just fine,
but of course any changes made after the cloning of the original drive
needed to be restored.

I am suggesting to her that she ship me her corrupt HD so that I might
see if I can repair it for her. My hope was to take the corrupt drive
and place it as a slave on my computer to see if I could read the
NTBTLOG.TXT file to learn where it failed. If that worked, I hope to
replace the corrupt file with a good file.

I realize I could not boot into the GUIf I were successful, since I
know my computer is not identical to hers. My question is: Can I boot
into Safe Mode on my computer with her HD to see if I have reason to
believe I have fixed her problem? If not Safe Mode, would booting to a
prompt mess up the HD necessitating activation once I sent it back to her?

I have other options such as walking her through a cloning of the drive
she is presently using, but I am a little leery doing that over the
phone. I welcome all comments.

The first thing I would do is check the drive itself. Download the disk
testing tools from either the computer's maker or from the maker of the hard
drive. Have her put the drive back in the computer and run the health test.
If the drive is good, have her put the working drive back in the computer and
place the nonworking one in as a slave. She should then be able to access the
drive and copy any data off of it to the working drive.

Once she is satisfied that all is well, walk her through the cloning
process. Reclone the working drive to the nonworking one and she should be
back in business.

Consider having her buy an external USB hard drive and Acronis True Image.
It can make backup images to the external drive, and also can make clones to
another internal drive.

Christmas is coming up (already?), this might make a nice gift.

 

[db]

since the clone is occurring between
two different computers,

the software has anti piracy built in
which might be one of the reasons
for the difficulty.

another reason that the clone isn't
working is because there are two
different computers involved.

in order for a clone to be successful
it requires two identicle computers.

otherwise, the clone would require
a repair installation to syncronize
the clone with its new home /
configuration

-----------------

if you acquisition the hard disk you
can install it as a slave and work
on it via a recovery console or disk
prompt.

but in order for it to boot, you
will have to do repair installation
on the disk to resync that windows
back to your computer / configuration.

also, it will also require a reactivation.

------------------

so my suggestion is for either
have the entire computer sent
to you "or"

have your sister repair her system
from her location.

-------------------

one of the steps your sister can take
is to boot the system with a bootable
cd, like a winxp cd.

the question is, if she has a winxp cd
and if so,

is the cd the same version as the
installation on the disk?

---------------------

--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com

"share the nirvana mann" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[BillW50]

In Mark Adams typed on Sun, 13 Sep 2009 09:05:01 -0700:

The first thing I would do is check the drive itself. Download the
disk testing tools from either the computer's maker or from the maker
of the hard drive. Have her put the drive back in the computer and
run the health test. If the drive is good, have her put the working
drive back in the computer and place the nonworking one in as a
slave. She should then be able to access the drive and copy any data
off of it to the working drive.

Once she is satisfied that all is well, walk her through the cloning
process. Reclone the working drive to the nonworking one and she
should be back in business.

Consider having her buy an external USB hard drive and Acronis True
Image. It can make backup images to the external drive, and also can
make clones to another internal drive.

Christmas is coming up (already?), this might make a nice gift.

There is always the free Paragon Drive Backup Express. <grin>

http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/

Can't help you with free external USB drives though. lol

 

[Mark Adams]

since the clone is occurring between
two different computers,

Ben, reread the OP's OP. The clone was made in his sister's (the same)
computer. Ken talked her through swapping the drives, and he said the clone
works.

 

[db]

ok, thanks.

--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com

"share the nirvana mann" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ken]

Maybe we can concentrate on why her drive will not boot in any mode -
what does that mean and what happens when you try Safe Mode or Regular
mode?

First you must excuse me if I do not have as many details as I would
like, as the computer is hundreds of miles away and I am posting what my
sister told me had happened. That being said, this is what I believe:

When her computer would not boot into the GUI, I told her to try
booting into Safe Mode. It seems that a reboot takes place in either
mode when it reaches the booting error. I next suggested that she
choose one of the other choices available for booting from the boot menu
when hitting F-8 early in the loading of windows. Even booting to a
prompt delivers the same result.

So in other words, every choice she chose would fail and go into a
reboot. That is when I decided to have her remove the failing HD and
use the clone HD.

Sometimes the can't boot problems are not hard to figure out, but the
symptoms are important and need to be specific.

Just "won't boot" is a very common report, but is not enough to go on
unless you want to just try things that might work, could be and
maybe. More details results in faster resolution, fewer forum
transactions and less wheel spinning.

Believe me, I understand how valuable detailed information is. It
would be one thing if the computer were here where I could have noted
all the details for myself, but that is not a choice.

Does she have any bootable CDs - like an XP installation CD, bootable
CDs from the hardware vendor (Dell, Compaq, etc.) or a CD just to boot
the Windows Recovery Console?

No, her computer is an HP with a restoration partition. No XP CD. I
might have made a BartPE CD for her computer, but I was leery of asking
her to do too much for fear the problem might become even greater. I
felt getting her restored with the clone HD was about as far as I wanted
her to get involved. I figured that if worse came to worse, I might
walk her through a cloning of the now working HD, but first I would like
to see if I could do some good my myself at my home. I have more tools
here than she would have available.

It is easy to create a RC disk and you

can do a lot with just that on these kinds of problems.

There will not be an ntbtlog.txt file unless you specifically chose to
create one on the next boot, so chances are - there isn't one. It has
to be created on purpose.

So there is no setting that automatically records a boot failure in
ntbtlog.txt? The reason I asked is on my computer there is such a file
and I do not recall having chosen to create one.

If you get her HDD and "fix" it using your hardware, it may not work
when you put it back in her hardware. I would try to fix it on her
hardware first.

Where do you think the problem would lie? I thought as long as I did
not boot into the GUI that drivers would not be a problem since they
would not have changed from the data on her HD? I realize that the
hardware would be different on my computer and necessitate activation
again, but I thought this too would only happen when booting into the
GUI? Am I wrong about this??

More details will get you the best advice.

Hope this clears up some confusion.

 

[Ken]

The first thing I would do is check the drive itself. Download the disk
testing tools from either the computer's maker or from the maker of the hard
drive. Have her put the drive back in the computer and run the health test.

I had her run Spinrite on the failed HD. No surface defects were
found, but I cannot say that a corrupt file was not found. From what I
had her do via tests, it sounds like a file is corrupted or a virus is
on it.

If the drive is good, have her put the working drive back in the computer and
place the nonworking one in as a slave. She should then be able to access the
drive and copy any data off of it to the working drive.

It may well come to this, but I am afraid she might mess up the now
working one. If that were to happen, she would be in deep Do Do.

Once she is satisfied that all is well, walk her through the cloning
process. Reclone the working drive to the nonworking one and she should be
back in business.

Consider having her buy an external USB hard drive and Acronis True Image.
It can make backup images to the external drive, and also can make clones to
another internal drive.

Christmas is coming up (already?), this might make a nice gift.

Good advice, but some people are not as comfortable doing such tasks as
others. Sending her some materials for baking a pie would probably be
safer.

 

[Ken]

since the clone is occurring between
two different computers,

I am sorry, but the clone WAS made on the same computer. The cloned HD
DOES work just fine. What I was seeking to do is repair the failed HD
at my home on my computer and possibly send it back to her to be used as
a working spare.

My real questions had to do with what if anything would happen to the
failed HD if I should attach it to MY computer as a SLAVE and try to
repair a corrupted file. My hope was that if I was successful in this
effort, I might be able to boot into Safe Mode on MY computer and
therefore have good reason to believe the HD would boot into HER
computer's GUI when I sent it back.

the software has anti piracy built in
which might be one of the reasons
for the difficulty.

another reason that the clone isn't
working is because there are two
different computers involved.

in order for a clone to be successful
it requires two identicle computers.

otherwise, the clone would require
a repair installation to syncronize
the clone with its new home /
configuration

-----------------

if you acquisition the hard disk you
can install it as a slave and work
on it via a recovery console or disk
prompt.

So I could try a repair install of the failed HD while attached as a
SLAVE to my computer? I have a XP Home CD so if this is a possibility,
that might be the way to go?

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

My sister lives hundreds of miles away and had her hard drive become
corrupt. It would not boot into any mode from the boot menu, including a
prompt or Safe Mode. She has XP Home.

Since we had cloned her hard drive, I walked her through removing the old
one and installing the clone drive. Everything worked just fine, but of
course any changes made after the cloning of the original drive needed to
be restored.

I am suggesting to her that she ship me her corrupt HD so that I might see
if I can repair it for her. My hope was to take the corrupt drive and
place it as a slave on my computer to see if I could read the NTBTLOG.TXT
file to learn where it failed. If that worked, I hope to replace the
corrupt file with a good file.

I realize I could not boot into the GUIf I were successful, since I know
my computer is not identical to hers. My question is: Can I boot into
Safe Mode on my computer with her HD to see if I have reason to believe I
have fixed her problem? If not Safe Mode, would booting to a prompt mess
up the HD necessitating activation once I sent it back to her?

I have other options such as walking her through a cloning of the drive
she is presently using, but I am a little leery doing that over the phone.
I welcome all comments.

You chances of fixing her bad disk on your own PC are very slim. In the vast
majority of all cases, Windows XP will not boot when used on different
hardware. You could, of course examine the disk while it is connected to
your machine as a slave disk but again I suspect that you won't find out
what's wrong with it.

I suggest you do this instead:
- Get her to run herPC with the cloned disk.
- Connect the disk as a slave disk to your own machine.
- Get all her data files off it, including her EMail files.
- Copy them back to her cloned disk.
- Get her to re-install the various applications that she has lost.
About her data files: Does she back up her important files regularly? To an
external medium? If not then this is the time for her to review her backup
policy. This was a warning shot - next time she might lose the lot.

 

[BillW50]

In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:03:47 +0200:

You chances of fixing her bad disk on your own PC are very slim. In
the vast majority of all cases, Windows XP will not boot when used on
different hardware. You could, of course examine the disk while it is
connected to your machine as a slave disk but again I suspect that
you won't find out what's wrong with it.

Acronis True Image and Paragon Adaptive Restore is supposed to take one
install from one computer and allow it to work on another of a different
type. In the case of the latter at least, it needs a Windows install
disc for Windows 2000 and XP. Doesn't for Vista and Windows 7. I never
tried either one, but I have been tempted to do so just to see how well
it works. <grin>

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:03:47 +0200:

Acronis True Image and Paragon Adaptive Restore is supposed to take one
install from one computer and allow it to work on another of a different
type. In the case of the latter at least, it needs a Windows install disc
for Windows 2000 and XP. Doesn't for Vista and Windows 7. I never tried
either one, but I have been tempted to do so just to see how well it
works. <grin>

Acronis True Image (Universal Restore) is only an option if the OP created
his image file with the Universal Restore option. If he created an ordinary
image then that image is unlikely to work on different hardware. Furthermore
I get the impression that he created a *clone*, not an image file, in which
case the Universal Restore option does not apply at all. I can't say
anything about Paragon Adaptive Restore - I don't know the product.

 

[Mark Adams]

I had her run Spinrite on the failed HD. No surface defects were
found, but I cannot say that a corrupt file was not found. From what I
had her do via tests, it sounds like a file is corrupted or a virus is
on it.


It may well come to this, but I am afraid she might mess up the now
working one. If that were to happen, she would be in deep Do Do.

Good advice, but some people are not as comfortable doing such tasks as
others. Sending her some materials for baking a pie would probably be
safer.

Here's what you do: Have her send you both of her hard drives. Make sure she
marks them well "working" and "nonworking". Slave her nonworking hard drive
into your machine. Copy her data off to your drive. Remove your drive from
the machine and replace her working drive as the master. Boot the machine
from the cloning software disk and clone the working drive to the nonworking
drive. Shut down and put your drive back in as master. Boot the machine to
your drive and copy her data back to the freshly cloned drive. Shut down and
remove her drive from your machine. Jumper it back to "master" if it's a PATA
drive.

Note that during this process, neither of her hard drives were allowed to
boot on your machine, so the hardware changes shouldn't be an issue.

It would be a real good idea for you to purchase the external drive and
Acronis and image the working drive before attempting this. Acronis boots
from the disk, so again the hardware issue won't enter the picture.

When you return the disks, they should both be ready to go. Note that you
have not made any changes to the "working" drive.

At Christmas time, present her with the external drive and the Acronis disk.
A backup image of her system will already be on the drive.

 

[Mark Adams]

In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:03:47 +0200:

Acronis True Image and Paragon Adaptive Restore is supposed to take one
install from one computer and allow it to work on another of a different
type. In the case of the latter at least, it needs a Windows install
disc for Windows 2000 and XP. Doesn't for Vista and Windows 7. I never
tried either one, but I have been tempted to do so just to see how well
it works. <grin>

Well, that IS what we have a stack of those old 20GB hard drives laying
around for, that we don't know what to do with! I have several. ;-)

 

[BillW50]

In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:35:15 +0200:

Acronis True Image (Universal Restore) is only an option if the OP
created his image file with the Universal Restore option. If he
created an ordinary image then that image is unlikely to work on
different hardware. Furthermore I get the impression that he created
a *clone*, not an image file, in which case the Universal Restore
option does not apply at all. I can't say anything about Paragon
Adaptive Restore - I don't know the product.

True, but you can throw the hard drive in another computer, use Acronis
True Image or Paragon CD to image it. Then to use Universal Restore
(ATI) or Adaptive Restore (PDB) to get it to boot and run on another
system. <grin>

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

In Pegasus [MVP] typed on Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:35:15 +0200:

True, but you can throw the hard drive in another computer, use Acronis
True Image or Paragon CD to image it. Then to use Universal Restore (ATI)
or Adaptive Restore (PDB) to get it to boot and run on another system.
<grin>

Indeed the OP can, provided that his sister can perform the same process
when he returns the repaired disk. It would be a tall order - and IMHO it is
still unlikely that he can repair the damaged installation.

 

[db]

yeah, you could do a repair on it as a slave.

but then your sister would have a problem
because the o.s. that you sync'd to your
computer would be out of sync with her
machine.

I would suggest for her to do a repair installation
from her end.

its pretty simple "if" the version of the cd matches
the version of the installation.

in other words if either you or your sister have a
winxp sp2 but the installation on the disk is sp3,

then a repair installation won't work.

at best you could slipstream a sp3 cd "or" uninstall
the sp3 update and the system will revert
back to sp2.

-----------------

so one option is to:

make a slipstream of sp3 on your computer
and send it to her to initiate a "repair installation".

she will have to enter your product key but it
can be changed later to the product key she
has.

if the repair works, then you saved yourself
a lot of trouble.

---------------------

another option is to:

fix her installation with a couple of disk
commands from her end.

all she needs to do is to boot up with the
xp cd and select repair.

then the recovery console will engage and
when she gets to the disk prompt, run the
following commands>:

chkdsk /r
fixboot
fixmbr

then "exit" and remove cd and see if the
computer boots normally.

--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com

"share the nirvana mann" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ken]

yeah, you could do a repair on it as a slave.

but then your sister would have a problem
because the o.s. that you sync'd to your
computer would be out of sync with her
machine.

I would suggest for her to do a repair installation
from her end.

its pretty simple "if" the version of the cd matches
the version of the installation.

in other words if either you or your sister have a
winxp sp2 but the installation on the disk is sp3,

then a repair installation won't work.

at best you could slipstream a sp3 cd "or" uninstall
the sp3 update and the system will revert
back to sp2.

-----------------

so one option is to:

make a slipstream of sp3 on your computer
and send it to her to initiate a "repair installation".

she will have to enter your product key but it
can be changed later to the product key she
has.

if the repair works, then you saved yourself
a lot of trouble.

---------------------

another option is to:

fix her installation with a couple of disk
commands from her end.

all she needs to do is to boot up with the
xp cd and select repair.

then the recovery console will engage and
when she gets to the disk prompt, run the
following commands>:

chkdsk /r
fixboot
fixmbr

then "exit" and remove cd and see if the
computer boots normally.

That is what I was afraid of. It sounds like there is little I can do
to repair the corrupt HD from my end. Although I would rather not, I
guess I shall walk her through a cloning of the current working drive to
the failed drive. Thanks.

 

[db]

yeah, walk her through these
steps.

if they prove unfruitful you
can then ascertain the drive
and work on it.

also, double check the connections.

if your sister is able to disconnect
the drive, then perhaps she can
double check that the plugs
haven't wobble loose or are a
skewed.

--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com

"share the nirvana mann" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~