running Office by remote desktop

[lewmania942]

Hi,

I've got a "network licensing" question.

At one of my client's place, they need MS Office, more
specifically Excel (the spreadsheet are gradually moved
to files compatible both under Excel and OpenOffice, so
sooner or later the whole system will be running under
free software and licensing questions will be moot).

This is a small company using spreadsheets only for
some accounting, but various people need to encode
some numbers into those spreadsheets. So no word
processing, no web-surfing, no database, etc. Only
(quite) some spreadsheets.

They've got a mix of various computers and licences,
including a "Windows 2000 Server" version.

The client wants that server to contain Excel and
regroup all Excel documents and have most other
PCs acting as dumb clients.

Most of the other PCs are still running either
W2K Pro or XP Pro but are being slowly shifted
to Linux.

Will W2K server allow as many W2K pro or XP Pro
clients to open remote desktops (say using mstsc.exe
or tsweb) and work simultaneously ?

Will W2K server allow many Un*x clients to open
remote desktops simultaneously ? (around 20 would
be sufficient)

I read that W2K server was generating some kind of
"free remote desktop licence tokens" (!) for W2K pro
clients and XP pro clients (contrarly to W2K3 server).

I did some testing tonight in a development
environment with some PC's and a few virtual machines.

I managed to connect simultaneously various users to
this server.

At one point, I had at least three times Excel running:

- on the main W2K server machine (with the user logged at
the keyboard/screen physically hooked to the W2K server)

- on a W2K pro client (plain W2K install, not a single
program installed besides the [free] mstsc.exe)
(note that tsweb was working fine too)

- on a Linux machine, using the rdesktop command.

However, I'm supposed to have 3 Excel licences.
That's not a problem per se: the company has much
more Office licence than that. But what I don't
understand is how comes Excel worked simultaneously
on all three different computers while only the server
had a fully installed/licensed Excel copy ?

Am I suppose to do something special on the server
to "explain" it that there are many licence available ?
Or simply tell the company to keep their Office's boxes
handy in case they're being audited before having moved
everything to OpenOffice/Un*x ?

Would an MS Office licence that is not installed on a PC
anymore (because the PC is now running Linux) be
considered valid for using Excel by remote desktop from
Linux ?

And something else: is there a special procedure to
follow on the W2K server so that as many W2K Pro
and XP Pro clients can keep connecting to it, even
after 90 days ?

I read the MS pages about "Terminal Server Licensing
Server" but found it mostly cryptic : I don't know if
I'm supposed to mess with the configuration of the
licensing server or not (for the moment everything
is working).

As everything seems to be working they'll probably
use it like that and if 90 days after the (re)installation
of the W2K server everything breaks loose I'd simply
re-image/re-install the W2K server (and maybe the
clients).

I'm interested by both technical and legal advices.

Thanks in advance for any information!

 

[Kurt]

On a Windows 2000 terminal server, once you set up licensing and have a
functioning licensing server (implying that TS is installed in "application
server mode"), you can have as many connections from Windows 2000 pro or XP
pro desktops as the server can handle. To install Office correctly on a
terminal server there are some special setups you must go through.
Realistically, if they're only using Excel, I'd just install Excel from the
office package on the TS _BEFORE_ you put it into app server mode. I"ve done
this without any problems and you can run as many instances as your server
can handle. You must have as many licenses for Excel as you have concurrent
sessions on the terminal server.

Linux/Unix or even non-professional windows desktops (Win98) will require
the purchase of Terminal Services CALs. What problems are you having
opening Excel spreadsheets in Open Office? Obviously, VB Macros won't run,
and things like buttons and controls that rely on VB for functionality. But
for basic spreadsheets, I haven't had a problem (even with some pretty
complicated ones). Are you using OO 2.x?

....kurt

Hi,

I've got a "network licensing" question.

At one of my client's place, they need MS Office, more
specifically Excel (the spreadsheet are gradually moved
to files compatible both under Excel and OpenOffice, so
sooner or later the whole system will be running under
free software and licensing questions will be moot).

This is a small company using spreadsheets only for
some accounting, but various people need to encode
some numbers into those spreadsheets. So no word
processing, no web-surfing, no database, etc. Only
(quite) some spreadsheets.

They've got a mix of various computers and licences,
including a "Windows 2000 Server" version.

The client wants that server to contain Excel and
regroup all Excel documents and have most other
PCs acting as dumb clients.

Most of the other PCs are still running either
W2K Pro or XP Pro but are being slowly shifted
to Linux.

Will W2K server allow as many W2K pro or XP Pro
clients to open remote desktops (say using mstsc.exe
or tsweb) and work simultaneously ?

Will W2K server allow many Un*x clients to open
remote desktops simultaneously ? (around 20 would
be sufficient)

I read that W2K server was generating some kind of
"free remote desktop licence tokens" (!) for W2K pro
clients and XP pro clients (contrarly to W2K3 server).

I did some testing tonight in a development
environment with some PC's and a few virtual machines.

I managed to connect simultaneously various users to
this server.

At one point, I had at least three times Excel running:

- on the main W2K server machine (with the user logged at
the keyboard/screen physically hooked to the W2K server)

- on a W2K pro client (plain W2K install, not a single
program installed besides the [free] mstsc.exe)
(note that tsweb was working fine too)

- on a Linux machine, using the rdesktop command.

However, I'm supposed to have 3 Excel licences.
That's not a problem per se: the company has much
more Office licence than that. But what I don't
understand is how comes Excel worked simultaneously
on all three different computers while only the server
had a fully installed/licensed Excel copy ?

Am I suppose to do something special on the server
to "explain" it that there are many licence available ?
Or simply tell the company to keep their Office's boxes
handy in case they're being audited before having moved
everything to OpenOffice/Un*x ?

Would an MS Office licence that is not installed on a PC
anymore (because the PC is now running Linux) be
considered valid for using Excel by remote desktop from
Linux ?

And something else: is there a special procedure to
follow on the W2K server so that as many W2K Pro
and XP Pro clients can keep connecting to it, even
after 90 days ?

I read the MS pages about "Terminal Server Licensing
Server" but found it mostly cryptic : I don't know if
I'm supposed to mess with the configuration of the
licensing server or not (for the moment everything
is working).

As everything seems to be working they'll probably
use it like that and if 90 days after the (re)installation
of the W2K server everything breaks loose I'd simply
re-image/re-install the W2K server (and maybe the
clients).

I'm interested by both technical and legal advices.

Thanks in advance for any information!

 

[lewmania942]

Hi,

first of all thanks a lot for your answer.

I'd just install Excel from the office package on the
TS _BEFORE_ you put it into app server mode. I"ve
done this without any problems and you can run as
many instances as your server can handle.

I'm a more a Un*x person, I don't really know what it
means to "put W2K server in app server mode". I simply
installed the system, installed Excel, then used rdesktop/mstsc.exe
to access the "server". Is there anything special I have to do
to configure it in app server mode?

How do I configure the "terminal services licensing server"? Is
there anything to do?

Linux/Unix or even non-professional windows desktops (Win98) will
require the purchase of Terminal Services CALs.

Or it won't work after 90 days? Because at the moment it is
working: I can use Excel from Linux machines using rdesktop.
(maybe I'll be limited to a certain number of non W2K Pro or
non XP Pro systems? say two Linux would work but not more
than that?)

I don't understand if I legally need those CALs or technically. Because
as it is now, the remove desktop (and Excel) is working on the
Linux clients (I only tested on one Linux client though).

What problems are you having opening Excel spreadsheets
in Open Office? Obviously, VB Macros won't run, and things
like buttons and controls that rely on VB for functionality. But
for basic spreadsheets, I haven't had a problem (even with
some pretty complicated ones). Are you using OO 2.x?

I'm using OOo 2.x... The employees are simply filling in some
numbers but some of the spreadcheet themselves have some
VB macros. Nothing that could not be replaced by OO but
for the moment I need first to deploy the "remote desktop"
setup, then I can start working on the OOo conversion (it's
my client's wish to work like that).


So if I understand you correctly, my main problem is really
related to the Terminal Service Licensing Server allowing
as many clients as needed to connect, and not to Excel, which
will work anyway right ?

Let's forget for one moment Excel and the Linux machines, imagine
that the network is made only of:

-one Windows 2000 server
-several clients running either W2K Pro or XP Pro

Do I need to concretely do something to configure the TS Licensing
Server?

Thanks again,

 

[Kurt]

I'm a more a Un*x person, I don't really know what it

means to "put W2K server in app server mode". I simply
installed the system, installed Excel, then used rdesktop/mstsc.exe
to access the "server". Is there anything special I have to do
to configure it in app server mode?

Go to control panel, add remove programs. Select "add/remove Windows
components. Make sure terminal services is checked and terminal services
licensing. Then when you "OK" it, you will be asked whether to install TS in
Remote administration mode (2 connections max, no license required) or
Application Server mode (requires TS licensing).

How do I configure the "terminal services licensing server"? Is
there anything to do?

You'll need to configure your licensing server from the new snap-in in
administrative tool. Go with the web option. It'll contact MS and they'll
email you the code to activate. There is no fee for activation and
registration. Go back to the licensing server snap-in and paste the
activation code. That's it. (It's been a while or I'd be more specific, but
it wasn't hard - just follow the prompts). The process generates a code
based on your CD key, so obviously it must be a legal one.

Or it won't work after 90 days? Because at the moment it is
working: I can use Excel from Linux machines using rdesktop.
(maybe I'll be limited to a certain number of non W2K Pro or
non XP Pro systems? say two Linux would work but not more
than that?)

Right. After the 90 day grace period expires connections from non-pro
windows desktops will be refused. Actually, you can wait 90 days to activate
the licensing server, then you get another 90 days to add licenses for a
total of 6 months free.

I don't understand if I legally need those CALs or technically. Because
as it is now, the remove desktop (and Excel) is working on the
Linux clients (I only tested on one Linux client though).

If you stay in remote admin mode no license is required. Once you move to
app server mode (if you need more than 2 simultaneous connections) your
linux boxes won't be able to connect after the grace period expires. You'll
find licensing complaints in the event logs.

I'm using OOo 2.x... The employees are simply filling in some
numbers but some of the spreadcheet themselves have some
VB macros. Nothing that could not be replaced by OO but
for the moment I need first to deploy the "remote desktop"
setup, then I can start working on the OOo conversion (it's
my client's wish to work like that).


So if I understand you correctly, my main problem is really
related to the Terminal Service Licensing Server allowing
as many clients as needed to connect, and not to Excel, which
will work anyway right ?

Yes, it''ll run. Just be sure to install it before you go to app server
mode - Do NOT install Outlook. Make sure you do a custom install and tell
the installer not to install outlook.

Let's forget for one moment Excel and the Linux machines, imagine
that the network is made only of:

-one Windows 2000 server
-several clients running either W2K Pro or XP Pro

Do I need to concretely do something to configure the TS Licensing
Server?

Yes, you'll need to configure the licensing server, but you won't have to
buy any licenses - activation is free.

 

[lewmania942]

Thanks a lot!

It's much clearer now thanks to your useful informations.