"RTFM" is not an answer, and it's RUDE!

[DBF]

I am sure I am not the only person who is getting tired of people who answer
posts with "RTFM". (For those of you who don't know, "RTFM" means "Read The
F***ing Manual".
1) It's rude!
2) It doesn't solve the problem or answer the question.
3) All it does is turn people off from coming to this site for help.
4) Sometimes people don't have manuals - I have a new computer which was put
together for me and for which I was given every manual, for every device and
board on it, and there are still a lot of basic things that are not in the
manual.

So, if you think someone should read the manual, perhaps you can approach it
in a more polite manner:
"Sometimes the answer you are looking for can be found in the manual or on
the manufacturer's web site."

Better yet, if you don't know the answer, don't waste everyone's time by
posting a "RTFM" response.
Dave

 

[DM1]

Thank you for posting that. Someone said that on a reply
to my problem with monitor refresh rates with xp and had
that at the end of it and I did not know what that meant.
Besides, my manual was no help and I came here for advice.

 

[*Vanguard*]

"DBF" said in news:[email protected]:

I am sure I am not the only person who is getting tired of people who
answer posts with "RTFM". (For those of you who don't know, "RTFM"
means "Read The F***ing Manual".

<snip>

Do you have a question?

 

[Joep]

RTFM is a common expression which is perfectly suitable for answering
questions that are asked over and over again and that are indeed answered by
reading manual or even a "Whatever for Dummies Guide".



--
Joep

1) It's rude!

Nope it isn't.

2) It doesn't solve the problem or answer the question.

It does when you follow the advise, RTFM.

3) All it does is turn people off from coming to this site for help.

Fraid not.

4) Sometimes people don't have manuals - I have a new computer which was put
together for me and for which I was given every manual, for every device and
board on it,

Ask for them, you payed for them.

and there are still a lot of basic things that are not in the
manual.

No sarcasm intended, get dummies guides, they're really great. I've got 8 of
them so far.

So, if you think someone should read the manual, perhaps you can approach it
in a more polite manner:
"Sometimes the answer you are looking for can be found in the manual or on
the manufacturer's web site."

They already know that, they're just too lazy to look it up. If they would
say, I have read the manual, read the FAQ etc., THEN they will receive a
meaningfull answer for sure. It is often appreciated if you show you have
put in some effort yourself. If it isn't clear that someone already actually
read the manual then RTFM is to be expected.

Better yet, if you don't know the answer, don't waste everyone's time by
posting a "RTFM" response.

They shouldn't waste our time by posting questions they can easily find
answer to themselves.

 

[James Silverton]

RTFM is a common expression which is perfectly suitable for answering
questions that are asked over and over again and that are indeed answered by
reading manual or even a "Whatever for Dummies Guide".

It's a long established UNIX tradition and a good one, IMHO! Asking
questions to which there is a well established answer are deprecated
(g)!

Jim.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Joep;
To the contrary, comments like "RTFM" are insulting, rude and a
detriment to forums such as this.
When people feel insulted, they tend to not come back to be treated
rudely again.
It is also a miserable attempt of the user to boost his own ego at the
expense of others.
If a constructive answer can not be given, better to not answer at
all.
Manuals are not always provided, you may ask for them, but there is
not always a requirement to provide it.
What is easy to you or I may not be so easy to others.

If you feel someone is wasting your time, look in the mirror.
Since this is a totally voluntary forum, the image you see is the one
who wastes your time.
Courtesy is far better in any forum.

 

[Cerridwen]

"DBF" said in news:[email protected]:
<snip>

Do you have a question?

No, he's just proud he's worked out what RTFM means and he wants to share it
with the world!

 

[Cerridwen]

It's a long established UNIX tradition and a good one, IMHO! Asking
questions to which there is a well established answer are deprecated
(g)!

Jim.

Amen! This all started because the OP wanted to know whether his computer
had USB2 ports - that was literally all he posted "Does my computer have
USB2 ports?" I mean, how in Hades is anyone supposed to know?! Therefore,
RTFM was perfectly appropriate.

 

[RonK]

Well stated !

Joep;
To the contrary, comments like "RTFM" are insulting, rude and a
detriment to forums such as this.
When people feel insulted, they tend to not come back to be treated
rudely again.
It is also a miserable attempt of the user to boost his own ego at the
expense of others.
If a constructive answer can not be given, better to not answer at
all.
Manuals are not always provided, you may ask for them, but there is
not always a requirement to provide it.
What is easy to you or I may not be so easy to others.

If you feel someone is wasting your time, look in the mirror.
Since this is a totally voluntary forum, the image you see is the one
who wastes your time.
Courtesy is far better in any forum.

 

[Joep]

Joep;
To the contrary, comments like "RTFM" are insulting,

No they aren't.

rude and a
detriment to forums such as this.
When people feel insulted, they tend to not come back to be treated
rudely again.
It is also a miserable attempt of the user to boost his own ego at the
expense of others.

Has nothing to do with that.

If a constructive answer can not be given, better to not answer at
all.

RTFM can be a very constructive answer. The F manual is a good place to
start, many don't even unwrap it so it seems.

Manuals are not always provided, you may ask for them, but there is
not always a requirement to provide it.

? then RTFFDG (for dummies guide). If there's specific questions on
motherboards etc, hoe about visiting the manufacturers website?

What is easy to you or I may not be so easy to others.

I never made such claims. I actually gave solid advise, get dummy guides.
They're cheap and good.

If you feel someone is wasting your time, look in the mirror.

And then what?

Since this is a totally voluntary forum, the image you see is the one
who wastes your time.

Offering help on a voluntary basis doesn't mean perse that I am interested
in wasting my time or that I am willing to award lazyness. I am more willing
to spent some time when the poster indicates what resources have already
been accessed etc..

Courtesy is far better in any forum.

RTFM isn't an insult. Maybe if you translate it directly, but you shouldn't.
RTFM is slang. RTFM is an institute. Anyway, top-posting is considered
impolite in many usenet groups.

 

[Joep]

No, he's just proud he's worked out what RTFM means and he wants to share it
with the world!

He probably read the freaking FAQ to figure it out ...

 

[Joep]

Well stated !

Please do not top-post.

 

[RonK]

You post your way - I post my way.

Please do not top-post.

 

[Joep]

Well stated!

You post your way - I post my way.

 

[RonK]

lol

Well stated!

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Joep;
They are insulting to many, maybe not to you but to many.
Fortunately you do not represent everyone.

Your comment "Has nothing to do with that." shows a lot about your
true lack of knowledge.
It has everything to do with it.
Many will feel beat down by such answers.
If people do not come because someone has to boost their own ego at
others expense a large purpose of these groups has been lost.

"RTFM" is an insult because it is translated directly.
This is an answer in ignorance as well as rudeness.
If you fail to see this, you should open your eyes and see outside the
small circle you have encased yourself.

It is nobody else's fault but yours if you waste your time.
So do not complain to us about how you use your time.

Newsgroups are a very diverse group and never will comply with the
narrow type of ideas you seem to think they should.

And bottom posting is considered wrong in others.
However preaching such as you in an obviously incorrect forum is
impolite everywhere.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
An easier way to read newsgroup messages:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/newsgroups/setup.asp
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/

 

[Pete Baker]

Couldn't agree more, JJ

Those still undecided on this issue may find it worthwhile taking a look at
the recent thread where some people who were posting advice into these
public newsgroups were complaining that the advice they posted did not
receive any acknowledgement...

link these two threads and we may be able to start addressing some of the
common problems of a public newsgroup.

Pete

 

[Trent©]

Couldn't agree more, JJ

Those still undecided on this issue may find it worthwhile taking a look at
the recent thread where some people who were posting advice into these
public newsgroups were complaining that the advice they posted did not
receive any acknowledgement...

Maybe its because top posters tend to be too lazy to crop the original
text from their replies...so there's no ROOM for many of the replies!
lol


Have a nice week...

Trent

What do you call a smart blonde?
A golden retriever.

 

[Cerridwen]

Here's a quote from the the site Bruce Chambers has in his sig:

RTFM and STFW: How To Tell You've Seriously Screwed Up
There is an ancient and hallowed tradition: if you get a reply that reads
“RTFM”, the person who sent it thinks you should have Read The F*****g
Manual. He is almost certainly right. Go read it.

RTFM has a younger relative. If you get a reply that reads “STFW”, the
person who sent it thinks you should have Searched The F*****g Web. He is
almost certainly right. Go search it.

In Web forums, you may also be told to search the forum archives. In fact,
someone may even be so kind as to provide a pointer to the previous thread
where this problem was solved. But do not rely on this consideration; do
your archive-searching before asking.

Often, the person telling you to do a search has the manual or the web page
with the information you need open, and is looking at it as he types. These
replies mean that he thinks (a) the information you need is easy to find,
and (b) you will learn more if you seek out the information than if you have
it spoon-fed to you.

You shouldn't be offended by this; by Usenet standards, he is showing you a
rough kind of respect simply by not ignoring you. You should instead thank
him for his grandmotherly kindness.

I couldn't agree more with the above. Computer illiteracy is *NOT* an
excuse. It doesn't take any computer literacy at all (well hardly any) to
type a search term into Google. It doesn't take any computer literacy at all
(merely the other sort) to read a manual. The repeated posting of the same
questions, day in, day out, shows one thing, people are coming here,
expecting to have their arses wiped for them and, what's worse, people are
obliging. It's the Usenet equivalent of doing someone's homework for them!
Sure, they might get an A, but what have they learnt? Nothing. Here's food
for thought: -

Spoonfeed someone an answer and they're satisfied for now. Teach them how to
find their own answers and, hopefully, they'll be statisfied forever and
stop clogging up the groups with the same inane questions that they could
have found the answers to themselves - in less time that it took them to
post. http://groups.google.com should be everyone's first port of call - and
the groups themselves the last.

OK, I'll stand down off my soapbox now, that's just how I feel. Call it
rude, or harsh, or unhelpful or whatever, I don't really care - it's fact,
whether you like it or not.

 

[Len]

Maybe I'm jumping in late or speaking out of turn but RTFM is a useful
response. Maybe not in its literal context but as a pointer to many who
have not taken the time actually learn about their equipment!

There are times when people who post here have not even read the posts from
the day before which actually answered their question (often for the 4th or
5th time).

There are those who feel indisposed to help themselves but rather expect
others to provide the "magic formula" to resolve all of their computer
related problems. They are the same ones who will rant because someone
5,000 miles from their computer can not provide that "magic formula"!

There was a comical (but with a grain of truth) about customers who would
call tech support for assistance but had taken made no effort to learn their
equipment. The film called them "12 oclock flashers" because that is how
all the appliances with a time display appeared. Obviously not the type who
RTFM.

I can picture that type getting on the NG and asking "how do we set the time
on our VCR?" They would provide no further information and then lash out at
anyone who suggests they read their manual for the appropriate steps to
take!

Oh well, enough of my ranting, it is just something that bugs me. People
come to the NG for information but don't read the previous posts... they buy
equipment but don't read the manuals!