D
David Maynard
aether said:
No one disputes that prices go up and down. It's your presumptive
'conspiracy' analysis that's folly.
No one disputes that prices go up and down. It's your presumptive
'conspiracy' analysis that's folly.
M
Michael W. Ryder
aether said:
These are all "second tier" memory so most of them available are left
overs. The market has moved to DDR400 and DDR2 so that is where all the
manufacturing is being done. The lower markets have to scrounge for
fewer parts so the price goes up. Simple supply and demand.
The list price is much lower, but again supply and demand lets the
dealers charge whatever the market will bear. Plus, how many of these
cards are actually sold at that price. Quite often a dealer will show a
price of $999.99 for an item not in stock. This will severely distort
the average price for an item.
I just purchased 1 GB of quality Corsair DDR400 memory for about $150.
This is much less than the $200 per Megabyte of memory I spent for the
first computer I built. And it took me a minute to install versus the
several hours to insert 36 DIMMs and make sure they were all properly
installed.
M
Michael W. Ryder
qrk said:
The price was over $400 per megabyte for memory for awhile.
D
David Maynard
Michael said:
Yes, but also notice the kind of 'price complaint' the article poses. Since
you supposedly 'need' a gig now, but only 512 Meg before, then 'prices have
gone up' because you can't buy twice as much for less.
That kind of analysis might be useful for a company considering an upgrade
to their client machines, and looking to budget it out, but it's ludicrous
as a 'price conspiracy' argument.
A
aether
I just purchased 1 GB of quality Corsair DDR400 memory for about
$150.<<<
Even still, that's more than a 10% increase over the $120 module I
spoke of. What type of Corsair DDR400 memory was it, specifically?
Also, was it a single module or twin? Remember, I said 'quality'
module. In addition, the module I was referring to was top of the line.
It's equivalent today would probably be the 'XMS Extreme'.
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-511&depa=0)
It's currently priced at $279.50. (and is sold out..)
I recall the difficulty of installing old memory, and the price per MB.
I'm speaking of the recent; the last few years specifically. The prices
are increasing. That simply can't be denied.
$150.<<<
Even still, that's more than a 10% increase over the $120 module I
spoke of. What type of Corsair DDR400 memory was it, specifically?
Also, was it a single module or twin? Remember, I said 'quality'
module. In addition, the module I was referring to was top of the line.
It's equivalent today would probably be the 'XMS Extreme'.
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-511&depa=0)
It's currently priced at $279.50. (and is sold out..)
I recall the difficulty of installing old memory, and the price per MB.
I'm speaking of the recent; the last few years specifically. The prices
are increasing. That simply can't be denied.
M
Michael W. Ryder
aether said:
Even considering the last couple of years, I purchased some Crucial
memory costing $70 for 256 MB SDRAM, or around $280 per GB. The same as
your considerably more capable Corsair memory. Shortly there after I
purchase some RDRAM memory for $95 per 256 MB module, or around $380 per
GB. This was then top of the line memory but is now outclassed by the
new DDR and DDR2 memory for less money, especially accounting for
inflation. By the way, this same memory today is over twice the price
because it is not being made in the same quantities and supply and
demand strike again.
As for prices increasing, they are for everything, gas prices have
doubled in the last couple of years, yet it is not as good as that
available 40 years ago when the price was less than a quarter of today's
prices.
D
David Maynard
aether said:
As I said before, you only look at the bits and pieces that fit your
conspiracy theory.
See here
Memory Market Overview: February 2005
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/mem-feb2005_3.html
In particular, "iSupply thinks the volume of the DRAM market in money terms
... only 2.6 percent above the year 2004 (compare this to the 51-percent
difference between 2004 and 2003!)."
Now, that's a red flag to anyone familiar with supply and demand and it
wouldn't be terribly surprising if prices had spiked in 2004 vs 2003
because of the dramatic increase in demand.
Of course, that's only part of the picture because it doesn't take into
account, among other things, production capacity changes but it *does* show
that the market is what drives prices and not your conspiracy theories.
Nevertheless, "reduced prices at the end of January: from $4.02 for a 512Mb
DDR400 chip at the very beginning of the year to $3.8."
So much for perpetually increasing memory prices.
J
JAD
interjection if I may......
What product of any meaning has increased in fundamental quality, and has
decreased in price? Even water is more expensive than it was last year.
The conspiracy is not focused on memory for a PC, it is much larger. Global
diversification of the manufacturing of products, leading to global economy.
Memory prices sustain a countries existence and the crooks who govern it
(not yours or mine in this case).
What product of any meaning has increased in fundamental quality, and has
decreased in price? Even water is more expensive than it was last year.
The conspiracy is not focused on memory for a PC, it is much larger. Global
diversification of the manufacturing of products, leading to global economy.
Memory prices sustain a countries existence and the crooks who govern it
(not yours or mine in this case).
notritenoteri
DIsk storage for one thing. Memory is a commodity and is made anywhere if
it is profitable enough.
it is profitable enough.
D
David Maynard
JAD said:
Electronics in general.
Part of the problems is trying to measure things in inappropriate time
frames while ignoring other factors and causes.
Well, *his* is, and that's the conspiracy theory I was dealing with.
There are so many factors involved that it's impossible to make simple
generic statements but that isn't caused by 'diversification'. It's because
of the disparate economies and pay scales. But that doesn't cause 'high'
prices, as the 'conspiracy theory' claims, it results in cheaper product
prices to the higher wage paying 'buyer' economies.
J
JAD
David Maynard said:
general is the key word there... cars? radios? computers? or is it
complexity that makes it better quality? definition of 'better'?
although things are faster and more complex for me doesn't mean quality.
thy still use 486's 'reliably' in many high tech applications.
water 6 years ago? or were you reffering to the op's use of time frames?
yes i understand...but it is the stepping stone to the 'bigger' picture so i
thought i would interject.
Someone said 'you can build memory anywhere'. The tech and machinery have
been available for awhile now.
why is it that there is only a select few places that make memory in enough
supply to be a 'player' in the price game?
Its planned that way. Fixed so that if anyone else tries to break into the
market on a large scale, would be squashed in
no time.
I hate typing long winded explainations for every generalzation. I think
most people that are interested in the topic would be able to fill in the
blanks.Pay scales and such play a huge part in why 'they' are controlling
where and what gets manufactured there.
D
David Maynard
JAD said:
The manufacturing process does. In particular, those that lend themselves
to automation. And I include integration (as in circuits) in that.
A reliability analysis also has to take into account what's being done and
capabilities. I.E a single transistor has pretty impressive reliability
specs but it doesn't do a whole lot all by itself.
Compare the reliability of, say, 100 486 systems to a single modern system
and see how it comes out.
However, I'm not sure why you decided to throw 'quality' into the 'price
conspiracy' mix. It's a different issue.
The tech and machinery are available but that doesn't mean it's a good idea
to slap one just any old place.
Planned and 'fixed' by WHO?
But the premise is fundamentally flawed to begin with as the 'popular'
place has moved over the years. Japan, after WWII, being the first followed
by South Korea, Taiwan, and now a shift into China.
Well, you call it "controlling" and others call it "exploitation." Depends
on which is your favored 'conspiracy'.
The 'simple' version is they have a sufficiently capable work for that will
work for less and that makes the area attractive to put a plant in, or buy
product from because it costs less.
S
soinie
That's the current business model for the 21st century. Most things
in your home are manufactured at a pittance in a third world country
with a 3 to 4 hundred percent profit margin built in at the point of
sale. Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
D
David Maynard
soinie said:
Why don't you post the financials for one of these companies making "3 to 4
hundred percent profit margin?"
The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
R
Ruel Smith
David said:
Michael Jordan made more from endorsing Nike than the entire sweatshop labor
force combined did that actually made the shoes/clothing. That's scary...
M
Matt
David said:
You're right, David. Companies can't make such shocking profits even if
they employ people for a dollar a day, because after all they have to
compete with other companies that are paying only a dollar a day.
D
David Maynard
Matt said:
Yeah. Too bad though. Would make for one hell of a great 401K investment
opportunity
M
Matt
David said:Yeah. Too bad though. Would make for one hell of a great 401K investment
opportunity
My mistake---I thought your question was rhetorical.
S
soinie
Why don't you do it yourself? I don't need to convince myself that
I'm correct.
You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".
D
David Maynard
Matt said:
You were right the first time.
Nothing wrong with musing about it though
