Rip-off artists

  • Thread starter Thread starter aether
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It's absolutely amazing. There are people defending these prices. Their
only defense is, lame attempts at insulting, or "don't buy it." There
are still 128 MB Radeon 9800 cards being sold for over $250 dollars. An
amazing $100 dollar drop from their average release date price, over
two years ago. I need not mention the price of memory, which is almost
comical. Unless you want the cheapest memory available, and little of
it, be prepared to spend at least $300 on memory. I'd love to see this
monopoly destroyed somehow. C'mon, Chinese! Start your own companies
and flood the market! You're already making all the products.
 
aether said:
It's absolutely amazing. There are people defending these prices. Their
only defense is, lame attempts at insulting, or "don't buy it." There
are still 128 MB Radeon 9800 cards being sold for over $250 dollars. An
amazing $100 dollar drop from their average release date price, over
two years ago. I need not mention the price of memory, which is almost
comical. Unless you want the cheapest memory available, and little of
it, be prepared to spend at least $300 on memory. I'd love to see this
monopoly destroyed somehow. C'mon, Chinese! Start your own companies
and flood the market! You're already making all the products.

No one is defending a particular price. They're simply pointing out your
lack of understanding about markets.
 
No one is defending a particular price. They're simply pointing out
your
lack of understanding about markets.<<<

I've read the responses, all of them. I understand everything that's
been said. I'm telling you the prices created by this market are
outrageous, and it shows no sign of letting up. Prices continue to
increase. The increases in the price of memory have been steady for the
past five years.
 
It's absolutely amazing. There are people defending these prices. Their
only defense is, lame attempts at insulting, or "don't buy it." There
are still 128 MB Radeon 9800 cards being sold for over $250 dollars. An
amazing $100 dollar drop from their average release date price, over
two years ago. I need not mention the price of memory, which is almost
comical. Unless you want the cheapest memory available, and little of
it, be prepared to spend at least $300 on memory. I'd love to see this
monopoly destroyed somehow. C'mon, Chinese! Start your own companies
and flood the market! You're already making all the products.

it's clear from your postings (prior and this one) that you don't
understand a free market and how prices are set. Since there is nothing
you as an individual consumer can do you have little in the way of options
- your whining here does not impact the situation you whine about.
 
aether said:
I've read the responses, all of them. I understand everything
that's been said. I'm telling you the prices created by this market
are outrageous, and it shows no sign of letting up. Prices continue
to increase. The increases in the price of memory have been steady
for the past five years.

Excuse me, but the easy explanation for rising prices in the United
States is the falling United States dollar. Not having read the
other posts, I suspect you have been told that several times.

It hasn't been for the past five years either. I think it's been for
about two years.

Look at the United States dollar. If it's been falling for two years,
I'm right. If it's been falling for five years, you are right.
 
aether said:
your
lack of understanding about markets.<<<

I've read the responses, all of them. I understand everything that's
been said.

Apparently not.
I'm telling you the prices created by this market are
outrageous,

You seem to think that just because you don't like 'prices' then that's
'proof' of something, but it's not. Other than you don't like prices.
and it shows no sign of letting up. Prices continue to
increase.

Maybe they should. Where is it written that things should be priced just to
suit YOU?
The increases in the price of memory have been steady for the
past five years.

Your 'solutions' are fly off the handle and shoot self in foot kind of
things. Flood the market, flood the market, cheap, cheap... yeah yeah.
Which also puts companies out of business and people out of work.

Things were real damn cheap during the Depression too but I hardly think of
that as a 'solution' to anything.

Let me pose a hypothetical example to illustrate how simplistic and short
sighted your 'outrage' is. A plant that makes memory chips can also make
other kinds of chips; say chips for cell phones. Cell phone market
increases and plant can make money with cell phone chips, which is a good
thing because people like to buy cell phones. Increase in cell phone chip
production lowers cell phone pricing but increases memory pricing because
that production is lowered from the shift to cell phone chips. You scream
about memory prices, force people to make more memory chips to satisfy your
'outrage', and cell phone prices increase because of the reverse shift in
production you forced. So now you scream about cell phone prices and want
to force more things, which screws up something else which you, of course,
scream about.

Meanwhile, if you were actually able to forces these things, you'd be
destroying the capital for plant expansion and product development, running
companies out of business, and putting people out of work. And out of work
people have a hard time buying things even at 'non outrageous' prices so
volume decreases and cost per unit goes up, which causes more layoffs, or
wage deflation, and a raft full of other equally undesirable consequences.

On the other hand, if prices really are 'outrageous' then someone will get
the bright idea to make money by selling into that market, by either a
production shift or the building of new plants, at a lower price and reap
profits from the volume. And if they try to make 'too much' profit someone
else will undercut them to take market share. That is, until the price
drops so low that the next guy decides he can make more money in the cell
phone market rather than make memory chips. Which is a good thing because
we don't want super expensive cell phones, now do we? Or maybe they'll make
GPS chips because, after all, we don't want 'outrageous' GPS prices either.
Or maybe they'll make GPU chips. Or maybe the investor will say to hell
with the volatile, low profit, chip industry and invest in geothermal home
heating units, or party balloons, or who the hell knows what? But, whatever
it is, I'm sure you don't want 'outrageous' prices there either so it's a
good thing someone is investing in it.
 
aether said:
your
lack of understanding about markets.<<<

I've read the responses, all of them. I understand everything that's
been said. I'm telling you the prices created by this market are
outrageous, and it shows no sign of letting up. Prices continue to
increase. The increases in the price of memory have been steady for the
past five years.

Considering that I paid $800 for 4 Megabytes of memory when I built my
first computer (and the price had been over $400 a Megabyte just before
then) and only $160 for 1 Gigabyte of memory for my last computer I
think current memory prices are a deal. This is a drop of 1,250 times.
What other market has seen such a drop in prices, especially when you
factor in the fact that the first memory came on 36 DIMMs which had to
plugged into sockets and was at least a thousand times slower than the
new memory?
If the industry was interested in "gouging" the public they would have
stopped R&D in the 1980s and saved Billions of dollars a year there
alone. Plus they would not have had to build all the new plants at
Billions of dollars each to make the new chips the researchers
developed. Hard drives could have stayed at the 40 MB level at around
$10 per megabyte and another huge savings by the industry could be made.
Without developing the new products the consumer would never know they
were possible so they would accept the "bargain" prices they were
offered. Just like they do when they buy a new TV, or toaster, or car.
 
aether said:
It's absolutely amazing. There are people defending these prices. Their
only defense is, lame attempts at insulting, or "don't buy it." There
are still 128 MB Radeon 9800 cards being sold for over $250 dollars. An
amazing $100 dollar drop from their average release date price, over
two years ago.

Right now you can get the Radeon 9800 card for around $170 at Comp USA,
after the sale/rebate. I would sell you my old 9800, but I gave it to my Ma
when I bought one of those $400 video cards to replace it...
I need not mention the price of memory, which is almost
comical. Unless you want the cheapest memory available, and little of
it, be prepared to spend at least $300 on memory. I'd love to see this
monopoly destroyed somehow. C'mon, Chinese! Start your own companies
and flood the market! You're already making all the products.
:-/
 
I'll cite examples of what I speak of:

DRAM Pricing: The Fix Is In - May 12, 2003 -
http://www.newsforge.com/hardware/03/05/12/0125221.shtml?tid=7

PC memory prices soar - September 9, 1999 -
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-278066.html?legacy=cnet&tag=xlr8yourmac

Retailers to hike PC price tags (note - March 25, 2002 -
http://money.cnn.com/2002/03/25/technology/pc_prices/

Rising Costs Put PC Price Wars Into Reverse - March 28, 2002 -
http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?id=354138

Memory Prices Double - January 15, 2002 -
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,79704,src,ov,00.asp

Micron Warns About Soaring DRAM Prices - July 13, 2004 -
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20040714014024.html
 
aether said:
I'll cite examples of what I speak of:

DRAM Pricing: The Fix Is In - May 12, 2003 -
http://www.newsforge.com/hardware/03/05/12/0125221.shtml?tid=7

PC memory prices soar - September 9, 1999 -
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-278066.html?legacy=cnet&tag=xlr8yourmac

Retailers to hike PC price tags (note - March 25, 2002 -
http://money.cnn.com/2002/03/25/technology/pc_prices/

Rising Costs Put PC Price Wars Into Reverse - March 28, 2002 -
http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?id=354138

Memory Prices Double - January 15, 2002 -
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,79704,src,ov,00.asp

Micron Warns About Soaring DRAM Prices - July 13, 2004 -
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20040714014024.html

There's never a shortage of conspiracy theories but notice how you ignore
the reverse side from the very same articles, such as:

"If you forgot to buy memory for your PC when prices were DIRT CHEAP, you
may want to ..."

So how did the conspirators let memory get "dirt cheap?"

And how about this one? "Increases in the cost of memory ... are set to
reverse YEARS OF DECLINING PC PRICES."

These price fixers really STINK at it.

And then this one "A confusing mix of facts and rumors is causing a steep
hike in memory chip prices, bringing some NEEDED RELIEF to BELEAGUERED
MANUFACTURERS ..."

Well, hell, put them out of business and see how great things are. But did
you bother to look at the 'past headlines', at the bottom, from just two
months back?

May 7, "Memory chip prices plunge"
August 10, "Are memory prices stabilizing?"

So in three months there was a plunge followed by a recovery. But you only
look at select pieces of the picture.
 
Memory prices fluctuate. Within the last year, I bought two 512MB
sticks of Crucial 3200 for $78 USD each. I think ZipZoomFly had it
for $75 but charged me three dollars more, no big deal. That is an
incredible amount of memory for the price.

The only story I can relate to your complaint is one I heard of
recently. Something about memory makers driving another memory maker
out of business by lowering their prices. I think it had something to
do with that double data rate memory for Intel mainboards several
years ago. Sorry, the name escapes me. There is supposed to be a suit
still going on about that.
 
That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
realize this.
Well, I went back over some old invoices from 2 years ago. Back in Feb
2003 I paid 25.70 UKP for 256Mb of no name brand PC2100 memory here in
the UK. In May of 2004 I paid 37.42 UKP for 256Mb of Crucial 2100. If
I were to buy 256 Mb of Kingston PC2100 memory from the same company now
it would only cost me 23.90 UKP, whilst Crucial is at 25.84 UKP.

So, over the past 2 years in the UK at least things have improved and
over the past 6 to 8 months the price of same Crucial Memory has dropped
by over 30%. :)
 
Peter said:
Well, I went back over some old invoices from 2 years ago. Back in Feb
2003 I paid 25.70 UKP for 256Mb of no name brand PC2100 memory here in
the UK. In May of 2004 I paid 37.42 UKP for 256Mb of Crucial 2100. If
I were to buy 256 Mb of Kingston PC2100 memory from the same company now
it would only cost me 23.90 UKP, whilst Crucial is at 25.84 UKP.

So, over the past 2 years in the UK at least things have improved and
over the past 6 to 8 months the price of same Crucial Memory has dropped
by over 30%. :)

According to the EU low prices are largely due to what the guy wish's would
a happen to graphics GPU, namely dumping due to excess production in the far
east.

But where as memory is well, just memory, you can't say that about graphics
chips. You don't just buy any old graphics card becuase it's works and is
cheap. (perhaps the OP would!)

The market wants performance products using GPU's people recognise.
 
you really need a good laxative boy. you are a boy aren't you. If you don't
like the price then don't buy or steal it. BTW its not a monopoly its an
oligopoly at worst and it won't go away. When it costs abillion to get into
the business not many people are going to jump in.
 
The PC market now comprises something like 51% of the memory market and it
is shrinking as a percentage of the total which is growing . the growth is
in things like cell phones, smart appliances etc etc.
 
your
lack of understanding about markets.<<<

I've read the responses, all of them. I understand everything that's
been said. I'm telling you the prices created by this market are
outrageous, and it shows no sign of letting up. Prices continue to
increase. The increases in the price of memory have been steady for the
past five years.

You sound like a young kid. Do a historical check on PC type computers
over the past 20+ years. You will find that memory, video cards,
motherboards, and CPU's have dropped drastically every year. If I
remember correctly, we paid around $70/MB (512K of memory would have
cost you $35840) for memory in the late 80's. When prices came down to
$35/MB, that was heaven! A simple IBM PCXT with a 10MB hard drive and
CGA graphics cost around $5000 in the early 80's. Considering
inflation, that is really expensive compared to current prices.

I suppose you think that food is too expensive too.
 
That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
realize this.

OK, you're a pinhead, by which I mean not a RAM enthusiast but the
product of sex between siblings.

Yes, I mean pig ignorant.

If I can watch the Canadian TV news this evening and see as a story
the citation that "PCs" have gone down 21% on average in price in the
last twelve months, then it's your dollar, you ragged-out putz.

Make more money or move to a country not quite so in debt that you
can't buy nice foreign-made hardware.

I have built every PC I've owned since 1989, starting with a 386-25.
That ridiculous doorchime of a Windows 3.0-running box cost me $2,600.
Every rig since then--a Pentium I 90, a dual Pentium II 333, and a
dual Pentium III 1 Ghz...cost about....$2,600!

Guess what I just priced my next rig at?

Every rig has been eight to twenty times more powerful than the last,
and the OSes are better, the graphics infinitely more comprehensive
and even the programs are getting incrementally less idiotic.

The PC was introduced around 1981. Twenty-four years later, they are
vastly more powerful and capable than say, the car from 1900 to 1924,
or the airplane from 1903-1927, the year of the first solo
transatlantic flight.

Aside from perhaps the bio-sciences, I can't think of a technological
leap...at a reasonable cost...greater than home computing in such a
short span.

So shut the **** up, you baby. Sure, there's room for improvement, but
the porn will download on a 486 all the same. Your handle is that of a
defiant Celt who stared down Rome: why don't you grow some nads and
quit whining like an ungrateful bitch.

Disgustedly yours,
R.
 
notritenoteri said:
The PC market now comprises something like 51% of the memory market and it
is shrinking as a percentage of the total which is growing . the growth is
in things like cell phones, smart appliances etc etc.

Yes. My example was not without some 'real life' inspiration ;)
 
The price of memory is increasing.

Rising DRAM prices could prompt vendors to cut bundled memory, analysts
warn.
April 21, 2004
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,115776,00.asp

"This week, spot pricing in Asian markets for a 256MB module containing
266MHz of DDR DRAM was around $39.50, according to market analyst
ICIS-LOR, which tracks memory pricing. By comparison, the same modules
were selling on the spot market or around $28.25 on January 1 and for
around $25.00 on April 1, 2003, the analysts say.

Spot prices for other memory types, such as SDRAM and 333MHz DDR, have
also shown significant gains during this period."

The price of high-end video cards has also increased. Three years ago,
the consensus best graphics card was the Radeon 9700. The average price
for this card was roughly $350. Today, the high-end card from ATI, the
X850. The best versions of this graphics card are routinely priced
above $700. The low-end version of this card is $545.
(http://www.newegg.com/app/viewprodu...14-131-301&CMP=OTC-pr1c3watch&ATT=Video+Cards)

A quality 512MB DRAM module, three years ago, cost around $120. Keep in
mind, that was essentially all that was necessary for a PC. Today,
since 1GB is essential, you must be prepared to pay at least double
that to have the same qualitative memory. Even more, if you prefer a
single DIMM.

DRAM Pricing: The Fix Is In - May 12, 2003 -
http://www.newsforge.com/hardware/03/05/12/0125221.shtml?tid=7

To deny the intent of these companies, which is to increase profits and
please shareholders, is sheer folly.
 
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