Retail version of XP-Pro with new computer

[G Busch]

I've read through this thread. What I'm curious about is WHY it's so

important for you to have a retail/non-OEM version of Windows XP Pro?

1. I like to have completely installable sotware - no "recovery" CD's, no
hidden partitions, etc.
2. I will probably upgrade my system at some point - which means new MOBO
w/new BIOS
3. You are tied to the PC maker for any support. While Dell, HP, etc are
somewhat OK about support (although a lot of times you just encounter script
readers) there is usually no suppport from smaller makers. MS will not give
any product support for an OEM OS - just retail. That's one reason OEM is
much cheaper
4. I may just junk my present PC and want to move the OS to a new system.
Why buy another OS again?

These answers may not apply to you, but they are valid reasons for wanting a
retail version - for many, good reasons to spend an extra 'C' note. I'm
sure other people can come up with othe good reasons, too.

 

[wojo]

Computer Shopper

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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

 

[t.cruise]

I usually don't get caught up in threads like this. Misinformation bothers
me though. When Windows XP was first released, many of the big name PC
companies supplied System Recovery CDs, and some didn't supply CDs at all
(HP's terrible idea of the hidden partition comes to mind). The negative
feedback from the purchasers had the major PC makers switch to the practice
of supplying OEM Windows XP CDs tied to the BIOS of the sold system. Maybe
Dell didn't always supply Windows XP OEM CDs. But, they do now, from
laptops to Desktops. My last couple of clients who bought "As Advertised"
Dell specials got the OEM Windows XP CDs. So Dell includes them even with
their lower priced systems, and they DO allow for Repair Installs.

I would agree that lower end PC makers like Emachine, and HP/Compaq (which
is the Packard Bell of this decade) either don't supply an OEM Windows XP
CD, or if they do, it might not have all of the features of the Dell OEM
Windows XP CD.

I don't understand though, the thought behind your mentioning that the next
version of Windows XP is due in 2006, and correlating that with buying a
retail version of Windows XP now. 2006 is a long time away in PC years.
The systems selling at that time will be radically different from what
you're using now. Longhorn isn't "the next version of Windows XP."
Microsoft at first envisioned Longhorn as a minor upgrade from Windows XP.
Longhorn has now evolved into the next MAJOR version of the Windows
operating system. I don't think that getting a retail version of a Windows
XP CD now, will matter a hill of beans when it comes to Longhorn, BECAUSE
Longhorn is so radically different. As with any major new version of
Windows, much hardware will be orphaned, and the minimum specs for the
hardware to run it, even in Beta have been dramatically increased (2.0 GHz
Pentium 4 and 1 GB RAM are recommended, which means those numbers will be
higher for better performance). Yes, OEM Windows XP CDs on new systems are
licensed limiting them to that system. If your aversion to an OEM Windows
XP CD is because of thoughts of upgrading the system that you're buying to
Longhorn, you're in for quite a surprise.
--

T.C.
t__cruise@[NoSpam]hotmail.com
Remove [NoSpam] to reply

see below........

I've read through this thread. What I'm curious about is WHY it's so
important for you to have a retail/non-OEM version of Windows XP Pro?
If you buy from let's say Dell, the OEM version CD included is
virtually the same as the retail version, and is less expensive.

Dell and many other oems don't always give you a oem xp cd. Usually you get
a recovery cd which only formats and brings computer back to day one -
useless.
Some dells get oem cds, some get recovery cds. Most all other oems give
recovery cds.
I

haven't found anything that I can't do with Dell's OEM Windows XP CD,
that I'd be able to do with a retail version, with the exception of
installing it on another system, because it's tied to the BIOS of the
purchased system.

If you get a real oen xp cd, then yes its the same. Although I have seen
"real" oem xp cd's that do not allow you to a a repair install.
Also the retail version has no licensing limitations like the oem version. I
don't like to have limitations placed on me that are unnecessary. You'll
probably get a new computer before the next version of xp, because xp came
out in 2001 and the next version is due in 2006, so most will go thru 2
computers in that time. So when you do you'll have to pay another oem
version fee. With the retail version you pay once and that once is probably
going to be lower than two oem versions.

Anyway, there's Product Activation, which is
meant to keep you from illegally installing Windows XP from the same
CD on more than one system at a time. What's the need for a RETAIL
version, as long as you have the OEM Windows XP CD, rather than a
System Recovery CD. Never purchase a system that only includes a
System Recovery CD (worse is no CD at all, but the install files on a
hidden partition). The above refers to OEM Windows XP CDs included
with systems purchased from major PC companies like Dell. If you
ever need to install Windows XP Pro on another system, and you have
an old Windows 98 CD, or an old Windows ME CD, which is no longer
being used on any system, you can purchase the retail Windows XP Pro
Upgrade CD, which is by far less expensive than the full version, but
contains all that the full version does, and when asked for proof of
upgrade eligibility, swap the CD for the versions mentioned above,
give the path to the old CD and when verified, swap back to the
Windows XP Pro Upgrade CD and continue the install.


T.C.
t__cruise@[NoSpam]hotmail.com
Remove [NoSpam] to reply

When buying a new computer, can I insist on a retail version CD-ROM
of XP-Pro rather than an "OEM" version?
Thanks, CGS

 

[wojo]

FYI guys: A lot of people bash HP and their hidden partition. I'm not crazy
about it either. But they do, and always have, included a utility to create
a bootable OEM from that partition. Maybe you knew that but it didn't sound
like it. also there aren't many left, none actually that I know of, that
only include recovery CD's. OEM CD's can do everything a retail CD can do
but I agree with you Phil I don't like the license limitations or the lack
of support (if you want to call it that) from Microsoft.

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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

I usually don't get caught up in threads like this. Misinformation bothers
me though. When Windows XP was first released, many of the big name PC
companies supplied System Recovery CDs, and some didn't supply CDs at all
(HP's terrible idea of the hidden partition comes to mind). The negative
feedback from the purchasers had the major PC makers switch to the
practice
of supplying OEM Windows XP CDs tied to the BIOS of the sold system.
Maybe
Dell didn't always supply Windows XP OEM CDs. But, they do now, from
laptops to Desktops. My last couple of clients who bought "As Advertised"
Dell specials got the OEM Windows XP CDs. So Dell includes them even with
their lower priced systems, and they DO allow for Repair Installs.

I would agree that lower end PC makers like Emachine, and HP/Compaq (which
is the Packard Bell of this decade) either don't supply an OEM Windows XP
CD, or if they do, it might not have all of the features of the Dell OEM
Windows XP CD.

I don't understand though, the thought behind your mentioning that the
next
version of Windows XP is due in 2006, and correlating that with buying a
retail version of Windows XP now. 2006 is a long time away in PC years.
The systems selling at that time will be radically different from what
you're using now. Longhorn isn't "the next version of Windows XP."
Microsoft at first envisioned Longhorn as a minor upgrade from Windows XP.
Longhorn has now evolved into the next MAJOR version of the Windows
operating system. I don't think that getting a retail version of a
Windows
XP CD now, will matter a hill of beans when it comes to Longhorn, BECAUSE
Longhorn is so radically different. As with any major new version of
Windows, much hardware will be orphaned, and the minimum specs for the
hardware to run it, even in Beta have been dramatically increased (2.0 GHz
Pentium 4 and 1 GB RAM are recommended, which means those numbers will be
higher for better performance). Yes, OEM Windows XP CDs on new systems
are
licensed limiting them to that system. If your aversion to an OEM Windows
XP CD is because of thoughts of upgrading the system that you're buying to
Longhorn, you're in for quite a surprise.
--

T.C.
t__cruise@[NoSpam]hotmail.com
Remove [NoSpam] to reply

see below........

I've read through this thread. What I'm curious about is WHY it's so
important for you to have a retail/non-OEM version of Windows XP Pro?
If you buy from let's say Dell, the OEM version CD included is
virtually the same as the retail version, and is less expensive.

Dell and many other oems don't always give you a oem xp cd. Usually you get
a recovery cd which only formats and brings computer back to day one -
useless.
Some dells get oem cds, some get recovery cds. Most all other oems give
recovery cds.
I

haven't found anything that I can't do with Dell's OEM Windows XP CD,
that I'd be able to do with a retail version, with the exception of
installing it on another system, because it's tied to the BIOS of the
purchased system.

If you get a real oen xp cd, then yes its the same. Although I have seen
"real" oem xp cd's that do not allow you to a a repair install.
Also the retail version has no licensing limitations like the oem
version. I
don't like to have limitations placed on me that are unnecessary. You'll
probably get a new computer before the next version of xp, because xp
came
out in 2001 and the next version is due in 2006, so most will go thru 2
computers in that time. So when you do you'll have to pay another oem
version fee. With the retail version you pay once and that once is probably
going to be lower than two oem versions.

Anyway, there's Product Activation, which is
meant to keep you from illegally installing Windows XP from the same
CD on more than one system at a time. What's the need for a RETAIL
version, as long as you have the OEM Windows XP CD, rather than a
System Recovery CD. Never purchase a system that only includes a
System Recovery CD (worse is no CD at all, but the install files on a
hidden partition). The above refers to OEM Windows XP CDs included
with systems purchased from major PC companies like Dell. If you
ever need to install Windows XP Pro on another system, and you have
an old Windows 98 CD, or an old Windows ME CD, which is no longer
being used on any system, you can purchase the retail Windows XP Pro
Upgrade CD, which is by far less expensive than the full version, but
contains all that the full version does, and when asked for proof of
upgrade eligibility, swap the CD for the versions mentioned above,
give the path to the old CD and when verified, swap back to the
Windows XP Pro Upgrade CD and continue the install.


T.C.
t__cruise@[NoSpam]hotmail.com
Remove [NoSpam] to reply


When buying a new computer, can I insist on a retail version CD-ROM
of XP-Pro rather than an "OEM" version?
Thanks, CGS

 

[G Busch]

But they do, and always have, included a utility to create
a bootable OEM from that partition.

Doesn't do you much good when the HDD crashes and you need to install a new
one...

 

[wojo]

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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

Doesn't do you much good when the HDD crashes and you need to install a
new
one...

The part of my post that you quoted in your response is the ONE thing HP did
that does do some good when the HDD crashes. With every HP I sold, when I
was selling, I recommended the customer immediately create the disk using
the utility HP provided. I also said in my post that I wasn't crazy about it
either but you at least have the ability to create the disk. Now that I am
not in the retail business anymore I can tell you that if you pressure your
salesman (if he/she works on commission) they will give you a retail disk
and take the cost out of the cost of the system. I know I always did and the
people that owrked with me always did and as a retail manager I always
allowed the same.

 

[G Busch]

Now, be honest... How many people went home and REALLY made that disk right
away? To be fair to HP, tho, for a nominal fee ($10 I think) they
would/will send a disk. Of course, when you need it, you need it NOW.

 

[wojo]

Now, be honest... How many people went home and REALLY made that disk
right
away? To be fair to HP, tho, for a nominal fee ($10 I think) they
would/will send a disk. Of course, when you need it, you need it NOW.

Well I stressed it hard enough that hopefully a lot of them listened. I know
most of them bought CDR's before they left. But if they didn't and then had
HDD problems who's fault is it then? The customer who didn't listen.
But again I am not saying the partition thing is a good idea since most
salespeople didn't do what I did. I am just saying they at least gave that
option and yes, you are correct I think it is $10 for them to send you a OEM
disk. And they will even do that after you fry your HDD and need the disk.

kwoyach[SPAM]@yahoo[SPAM].com
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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

 

[Jim Macklin]

The idea is that you burn the CD as soon as you buy the
computer before the hard drive crashes.

I'm sure that HP/Compaq save at least 10 cents on each CD.


|
| > But they do, and always have, included a utility to
create
| > a bootable OEM from that partition.
|
| Doesn't do you much good when the HDD crashes and you need
to install a new
| one...
|
|

 

[Jim Carlock]

A retail version of XP Pro is only $100.00? Last time I looked
it was about $300.00.

--
Jim Carlock
http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
Post replies to the newsgroup.


Clavin;
Not really.
You can ask but if they say no you have no other option with them
other than what they will sell you.
The larger OEMs are less likely to have that as an option.
The smaller local shops will likely comply, but you will most likely
pay more.
The cost of the computer will likely go up about $100 for that added
benefit.

 

[Jim Carlock]

Computer Shopper? That mag is still around? It used to be
huge! With tons of ads!

--
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http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
Post replies to the newsgroup.


Computer Shopper

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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

 

[Jim Carlock]

You can't compare the OS to the engine on a Ford.

You can compare it the OS in this case to a color though.
You can get the Found On Road Dead in many colors and if
you don't like the default colors, they can paint frogs on it for
you.

XP retail version isn't any better than oem XP other than you
get a pretty box with it.

XP retail usually costs $10.00 more for some reason... the
pretty box?

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http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
Post replies to the newsgroup.


In

When buying a new computer, can I insist on a retail version CD-ROM of
XP-Pro rather than an "OEM" version?

In most cases, that will be like trying to buy a new Ford from a
Ford dealer and *insisting* on a Chevrolet engine. You can insist
all you want, but the Ford dealer will be unable to sell you what
you want. Either you get it with a Ford engine, or you can't do
business with the dealer.

Similarly, if you buy a computer from one of the major OEMs like
Dell or Gateway, they will probably not be able to comply with
your request whether they want to or not.

On the other hand if you have a computer made by a local store,
they probably have much more flexibility, and at least in some
cases, can get you a retail version instead of an OEM version.
But be prepared to pay extra for it; it will cost them more, and
they will certainly pass the extra cost on to you.

But if you are buying from a local store, they can also probably
supply you with a complete generic OEM version. Unless the
difference in price is very small, you might want to consider
accepting that; the software it contains is identical to the
retail version, and will have a CD to reinstall as desired.
However it will have the following disadvantages over the retail
version:

1. Its license ties it permanently to the first computer it's
installed on. It can never legally be moved to another computer,
sold, or given away.

2. It can only do a clean installation, not an upgrade.

3. Microsoft provides no support for OEM versions. You can't call
them with a problem, but instead have to get any needed support
from your OEM; that support may range anywhere between good and
non-existent.

How significant those disadvantages are depends on you, your
level of expertise, and your plans for the computer's use.
Personally I would never accept a system that came with a restore
CD instead of an installation CD, but if the price differential
were significant enough, I *would* accept a complete generic OEM
CD.

 

[Jim Macklin]

The magazine is still around, standard size, most of the ads
have gone on-line.


| Computer Shopper? That mag is still around? It used to be
| huge! With tons of ads!
|
| --
| Jim Carlock
| http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
| Post replies to the newsgroup.
|
|
| | Computer Shopper
|
| --
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| TO Email: Remove [SPAM]
|
| **Useful Links**
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| Blaster Security Patch:
| http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/blast.asp
| TweakUI and other PowerToys:
| www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp
|
| If I can help you I will.
| If you can help me thanks.
|
| | >I have never seen one of these kits. Sounds
intriguing... Where have you
| > found them?
| >
message
| > | >>
| >>
| >> Tim Slattery wrote:
| >> >
| >> >> Tim: THanks for your comments. I will be buying a
notebook/laptop
| >> >> because of space limitations. A local 'builder' has
told me they
| >> >> would not be able to put together a laptop. Is this
a possibility
| >> >> elsewhere?
| >> >
| >> > Laptops are proprietary beasts. They must use tiny
versions of
| >> > motherboards, memory modules, modems, just about
everything. (Not to
| >> > mention the flat-screen display.) There is no such
thing as a generic
| >> > laptop, like a generic "whitebox" desktop machine.
The only way you
| >> > get a laptop is from a major manufacturer. That means
it will come
| >> > with an OEM version of XP preinstalled.
| >> >
| >> > Even if you got a laptop with no OS, you would need
the manufacturer
| >> > to supply drivers for all the non-standard hardware.
I don't think
| >> > it's likely to happen. (But I don't know everything.)
| >>
| >> That's not exactly true. You can buy barebones laptop
kits and "build"
| > your
| >> own laptop. I have done this before for clients. You
can specify things
| > you
| >> want and install a retail version of windows. Laptops
can be had from
| >> only
| >> oems is just another myth the oems made up to
discourage building our
| >> own.
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
|

 

[wojo]

You can paint your OEM any color you want and put all the frogs on it you
want but you still can't install it on one machine. Delete it and then
install it on another.

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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

 

[Jim Carlock]

And made $ 9.90 on each CD they sold.

--
Jim Carlock
http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
Post replies to the newsgroup.


The idea is that you burn the CD as soon as you buy the
computer before the hard drive crashes.

I'm sure that HP/Compaq save at least 10 cents on each CD.


|
| > But they do, and always have, included a utility to
create
| > a bootable OEM from that partition.
|
| Doesn't do you much good when the HDD crashes and you need
to install a new
| one...
|
|

 

[wojo]

Yeah but it's still a good magazine to make new connections with different
wholesale parts warehouses. Not what it once was but still a great referene.

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www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp

If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

The magazine is still around, standard size, most of the ads
have gone on-line.


| Computer Shopper? That mag is still around? It used to be
| huge! With tons of ads!
|
| --
| Jim Carlock
| http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
| Post replies to the newsgroup.
|
|
| | Computer Shopper
|
| --
| kwoyach[SPAM]@yahoo[SPAM].com
| TO Email: Remove [SPAM]
|
| **Useful Links**
| AdAware:
| www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/
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| www.gemal.dk/browserspy/parasites.html
| Blaster Security Patch:
| http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/blast.asp
| TweakUI and other PowerToys:
| www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp
|
| If I can help you I will.
| If you can help me thanks.
|
| | >I have never seen one of these kits. Sounds
intriguing... Where have you
| > found them?
| >
message
| > | >>
| >>
| >> Tim Slattery wrote:
| >> >
| >> >> Tim: THanks for your comments. I will be buying a
notebook/laptop
| >> >> because of space limitations. A local 'builder' has
told me they
| >> >> would not be able to put together a laptop. Is this
a possibility
| >> >> elsewhere?
| >> >
| >> > Laptops are proprietary beasts. They must use tiny
versions of
| >> > motherboards, memory modules, modems, just about
everything. (Not to
| >> > mention the flat-screen display.) There is no such
thing as a generic
| >> > laptop, like a generic "whitebox" desktop machine.
The only way you
| >> > get a laptop is from a major manufacturer. That means
it will come
| >> > with an OEM version of XP preinstalled.
| >> >
| >> > Even if you got a laptop with no OS, you would need
the manufacturer
| >> > to supply drivers for all the non-standard hardware.
I don't think
| >> > it's likely to happen. (But I don't know everything.)
| >>
| >> That's not exactly true. You can buy barebones laptop
kits and "build"
| > your
| >> own laptop. I have done this before for clients. You
can specify things
| > you
| >> want and install a retail version of windows. Laptops
can be had from
| >> only
| >> oems is just another myth the oems made up to
discourage building our
| >> own.
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
|

 

[wojo]

Only on the ones that weren't smart enough to do it themselves before they
had HDD problems.

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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

 

[wojo]

When I was selling Compaq came with OEM and a restore CD but that may have
changed.

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If I can help you I will.
If you can help me thanks.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Jim;
I never said retail XP Pro was $100.
I said "The cost of the computer will likely go up about $100 for that
added benefit."
Meaning, remove the OEM and get retail.
You are forgetting to subtract the value of OEM and possibly other
concessions.
The figure could be more or less at different shops.

 

[Clavin Schwindt]

Hi all: I have read every post in this 'thread' up to this time and have
learned plenty. I did not expect to stir up a "firestorm." I am a neophyte
who has gained some sophistication in three years as a computer "user." I
certainly appreciate the interest shown in my question. Thanks. CGS