Registry Query

[POP]

This is a purposely posed question meant to generate some dialog
that might be useful to a LOT of folks, myself included, here,
who are tempted to or are playing with their registry, or just
think they're safe when they are not.

IF I used Regedit to Export the entire Registry, and then make
some changes to it, but in doing so, frog things up, and then
want to get back to where I started by getting the old registry
back:

What will happen if I start Regedit and simply Import the
registry that I just exported?

Will I be back to the exact same registry I exported? Or will
there be some differences?

Pop

 

[Bert Kinney]

Hi Pop,

Export and import within Regedit is *not* a good method of backing up
the entire registry. Its value is where you are going to modify a small
section - export that section, then if needed delete it and re-import to
put things back.

First the backups are text mode, largely in Unicode and are enormous.
Second there is no proper way to restore it. Import does not replace
the current registry but merges the file into it causing the registry to
be come severely bloated. Thus unwanted additions made since the export
are not removed - which is very often what you want to do.
And third when you want to use it may not be practicable, particularly
if the system will not boot.

System Restore is the built in method of restoring the registry. Create
a restore point before editing the registry. It is also recommended to
test System Restore before making the registry entry's.

How do I Test System Restore’s functionality?
Create a new restore point named TEST.
Create a new shortcut on the desktop and point it to My Computer or any
other file of your choice and name it TEST.
Now restore to the Test restore point.
The system will now reboot, and you will receive a message if the
restore was successful, and the Test shortcut on the desktop will be
gone.

If System Restore fails to restore, see the following article.
Here are some troubleshooting steps to take when System Restore fails to
restore:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/srfail.html

ERUNT is a good tool for backing up the registry.
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

More information on how to backup the Windows XP Registry?
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/registry.htm

 

[POP]

Bert,

If I may be so bold: Why would I want/need ERUNT? I've heard a
lot about it, and just came from your reference link. It doesn't
appear to do anything more than backing up the System State, and
restoring the System State would do.
Or am I completely missing something?

TIA,

Pop

....

 

[POP]

Hi Bert,

That's a clear and concise response; well written, IMO. The
misconceptions and even misinformation "out there" about the
registry file/s are terrible, and hard to figure out. I found
out the hard way about the ease of creating duplicate entries in
the registry back in the days of win98, when you could actually
ask for the size of the registry and get a finite number on it.
It turns out my thinking has been right, although I've had
little opportunity to real-world test it, luckily. Your
clarification and confirmations are heartening.

If you, or anyone else cares, I can show you how easy it is to go
wrong in deciding how to use Regedit with the registry. When one
already knows the details, it's no problem, but it's quite a
problem for the person just starting to nose around and get a
head around some of it.

In Regedit's Help it says:
"
a..
1.. Under Export range, do one of the following:
2.. To back up the entire registry, click All.
a.. To back up only a particular branch of the registry tree,
click Selected branch and enter the name of the branch you want
to export.
1.. Click Save.
"
ALL comes first, doen't it? If I'm not sure what I want to do
yet, I'd better back it ALL up, right?

Then, under Import, it says:
"
To import some or all of the registry

1.. Open Registry Editor.
2.. On the File menu, click Import Registry File.
3.. Find the file you want to import, click the file to select
it, then click Open.
"

Sooo, fer sure, I can just Import the whole registry, and get it
all back, right? And everything's fine? Even if I do that
several times playing around, must not be anything to worry
about, right?
But jeepers, look at all those duplicate entries! I didn't
tell it to do that! Where'd they come from? I followed the
instructions in Help! I know they weren't there to start, I'd
remember that!
I'm not about to test it on my XP, but you could pretty
quickly bring 98 almost to its knees by importing the registry.

Well, Import and Export are there; it must have been right. I'm
forever being told to backup my registry before doing a lot of
things, so it must be the right thing to do! Right? And it
tells me right there, to get it back, just Import it! Huh!

Even Microsoft keeps saying that: From one of the links you
provided:
"
Back up the registry
Before you edit the registry, export the keys in the registry
that you plan to edit, or back up the whole registry. If a
problem occurs, you can then follow the steps in the Restore the
registry section of this article to restore the registry to its
previous state.
"
The RESTORE THE REGISTRY section talks about restoring the System
State! Soooooo, I guess Exporting the REgistry creates a System
State I can IMport from? Hmmmm, uhhh, ...

But, then, over in that link to "Restore the registry", it says,
this time:
"
Restore the whole registry
"
To restore the whole registry, restore the system state from a
backup. For additional information about how to restore the
system state from a backup, click the following article number to
view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
"
HUH!!?? I Exported the Registry, not something called a System
State! What's that got to do with the Registry? Huh! Nothing
told me to make a "system state", whatever that is! I'm
confused, so I'll just go Import the registry; that's what I
Exported, after all.
If I have to restore from the System State, why was I advised
to backup the registry? Here we go loop de loop again, so
frustratingly common in MS writings!

I think you can see where I'm coming from. It takes the likes of
a person like you who can put together all the pieces into one
digestible plate, to make sense of it. Interestingly, as many KB
articles as I've perused over this and many other things, I don't
recall one with all the required informaiton ever referenced
reasonably, even if it doesn't appear so. Q309340 makes sense:
I've never come across it, or one like it, before your post here.

The registry is one of the most misunderstood features of windows
sysems, and the most abused by do gooders IMO, plus is in reality
useless for most anything but exporting and imorting pieces that
were changed, or adding new entries. WHY the hell is it made to
be so complex? Where the hell do they get off telling me to make
a backup of my registry and then in the same breath telling me to
restore my system state when I havent' been told to save it to
anything? Rhetorical - not aimed at you; sorry if it sounded
that way.

I guess I'm just getting tired of being told to "backup the
registry" when it's a futile effort and w/r to most popular os's,
a vague and useless process. Say "System state" to a lot of
people, and they won't know what you're talking about. But say
Registry, and they'll know or at least tell you they know, what
that is.

Sorry; just a pet peeve that's really beginning to bug me, and I
am VERY happy to see not only your response, but a half way valid
KB article about it.
I just noticed how I've missed it, too: the date's April '06
on it; it's new. I almost shudder to think what "backup the
registry" will be about for Vista<g>! Not that technical writing
has ever been a strong point for MS in any arena.

I'll stop ranting now; thanks again and thanks for letting me
vent.
Pop

 

[Bert Kinney]

Bert,

If I may be so bold: Why would I want/need ERUNT? I've heard a
lot about it, and just came from your reference link. It doesn't
appear to do anything more than backing up the System State, and
restoring the System State would do.
Or am I completely missing something?

Erunt, is a registry back up tool, no more. The advantage of using Erunt
is it can be used to restore the registry when a system will not start
in normal or safe mode. The following link will explain it's use in much
more detail.
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/erunt.txt

System Restore monitors system changes and saves the system state as a
restore point and most of the registry. If a system problem develops as
a result of a system change, the user can return the system to a
previous state using the data from a restore point. In this case the
system must be able to at least boot to Safe Mode.

What's Restored and What's Not:

* Restored
o Registry (note: some current values will persist)
o Profiles (local only—roaming user profiles not impacted by
restore)
o COM+ DB
o WFP.dll cache
o WMI DB
o IIS Metabase
o Files with extensions listed in the Monitored File
Extensions list
* Not Restored
o DRM settings
o SAM hives (does not restore passwords)
o WPA settings (Windows authentication information is not
restored)
o Contents of the My Documents folder(s)
o Specific directories/files listed in the Monitored File
Extensions list
o Any file with an extension not listed in the Monitored File
Extensions list
o Items listed in both Filesnottobackup and KeysnottoRestore
(hklm->system->controlset001->control->backuprestore->filesnottobackup
and keysnottorestore)
o User-created data stored in the user profile
o Contents of redirected folders

List of files and folders System Restore monitors:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/filesfolders.html

 

[Bert Kinney]

Hi Bert,

That's a clear and concise response; well written, IMO.

Thank you.

The misconceptions and even misinformation "out there" about the
registry file/s are terrible, and hard to figure out.

I agree. I also believe editing the registry should be left to advanced
users.

I found out the hard way about the ease of creating duplicate entries
in
the registry back in the days of win98, when you could actually
ask for the size of the registry and get a finite number on it.
It turns out my thinking has been right, although I've had
little opportunity to real-world test it, luckily. Your
clarification and confirmations are heartening.

Yes, registry bloat was more of a problem in Win98. A System.dat file
larger than 8.5 mbs would cause problems. Particularly with Scanreg.

If you, or anyone else cares, I can show you how easy it is to go
wrong in deciding how to use Regedit with the registry. When one
already knows the details, it's no problem, but it's quite a
problem for the person just starting to nose around and get a
head around some of it.

Here's a good place to start. Some deal with the Win9x and WinXP
registry.
Description of the Microsoft Windows registry
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/256986/

AXCEL216 / MDGx Registry HACKs
http://www.mdgx.com/reg.htm

AXCEL216 / MDGx Registry HACKs
http://www.mdgx.com/reg.htm

Activewindows - Windows Registry -
http://www.activewin.com/tips/reg/index.shtml

Windows Registry Tutorial - WinGuides Article
http://www.winguides.com/article.php?id=1&guide=registry

In Regedit's Help it says:
"
a..
1.. Under Export range, do one of the following:
2.. To back up the entire registry, click All.
a.. To back up only a particular branch of the registry tree,
click Selected branch and enter the name of the branch you want to
export.
1.. Click Save.
"
ALL comes first, doen't it? If I'm not sure what I want to do
yet, I'd better back it ALL up, right?

As previously stated, it's value is where you are going to modify a
small section - export that section, then if needed delete it and
re-import to put things back. If mutable changes are going to be make,
it's best to use Erunt or System Restore. Note: System Restore will not
restore the SAM hive (passwords and the like).

Then, under Import, it says:
"
To import some or all of the registry

1.. Open Registry Editor.
2.. On the File menu, click Import Registry File.
3.. Find the file you want to import, click the file to select
it, then click Open.
"

Sooo, fer sure, I can just Import the whole registry, and get it
all back, right? And everything's fine? Even if I do that
several times playing around, must not be anything to worry
about, right?
But jeepers, look at all those duplicate entries! I didn't
tell it to do that! Where'd they come from? I followed the
instructions in Help! I know they weren't there to start, I'd
remember that!

Help doesn't tell the hole story. And we have already gone over this.

I'm not about to test it on my XP, but you could pretty
quickly bring 98 almost to its knees by importing the registry.

Well, Import and Export are there; it must have been right. I'm
forever being told to backup my registry before doing a lot of
things, so it must be the right thing to do! Right? And it
tells me right there, to get it back, just Import it! Huh!

Backup yes, export no.

Even Microsoft keeps saying that: From one of the links you provided:
"
Back up the registry
Before you edit the registry, export the keys in the registry
that you plan to edit, or back up the whole registry. If a
problem occurs, you can then follow the steps in the Restore the
registry section of this article to restore the registry to its
previous state.
"
The RESTORE THE REGISTRY section talks about restoring the System
State! Soooooo, I guess Exporting the REgistry creates a System
State I can IMport from? Hmmmm, uhhh, ...

But, then, over in that link to "Restore the registry", it says, this
time:
"
Restore the whole registry
"
To restore the whole registry, restore the system state from a
backup. For additional information about how to restore the
system state from a backup, click the following article number to
view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
"
HUH!!?? I Exported the Registry, not something called a System
State! What's that got to do with the Registry? Huh! Nothing
told me to make a "system state", whatever that is! I'm
confused, so I'll just go Import the registry; that's what I Exported,
after all.
If I have to restore from the System State, why was I advised
to backup the registry? Here we go loop de loop again, so
frustratingly common in MS writings!

Don't let it confuse you. We have already discussed the best practices

I think you can see where I'm coming from. It takes the likes of
a person like you who can put together all the pieces into one
digestible plate, to make sense of it. Interestingly, as many KB
articles as I've perused over this and many other things, I don't
recall one with all the required informaiton ever referenced
reasonably, even if it doesn't appear so. Q309340 makes sense:
I've never come across it, or one like it, before your post here.

Backup and restore is a good tool also.

For backing up an operating system, I think a better option is to
create an image of the partition using imaging software.

Acronis True Image is a good choice.
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage

The registry is one of the most misunderstood features of windows
sysems, and the most abused by do gooders IMO, plus is in reality
useless for most anything but exporting and imorting pieces that
were changed, or adding new entries. WHY the hell is it made to
be so complex? Where the hell do they get off telling me to make
a backup of my registry and then in the same breath telling me to
restore my system state when I havent' been told to save it to
anything? Rhetorical - not aimed at you; sorry if it sounded that
way.

The registry was never intended to edited by the novice user. At least
not without expert advise.

I guess I'm just getting tired of being told to "backup the
registry" when it's a futile effort and w/r to most popular os's,
a vague and useless process. Say "System state" to a lot of
people, and they won't know what you're talking about. But say
Registry, and they'll know or at least tell you they know, what that
is.

Sorry; just a pet peeve that's really beginning to bug me, and I
am VERY happy to see not only your response, but a half way valid
KB article about it.
I just noticed how I've missed it, too: the date's April '06
on it; it's new. I almost shudder to think what "backup the
registry" will be about for Vista<g>! Not that technical writing
has ever been a strong point for MS in any arena.

I'll stop ranting now; thanks again and thanks for letting me vent.

A little knowledge will go along way. <g>

 

[POP]

Thank you.
....

As previously stated, it's value is where you are going to
modify a small section - export that section, then if
needed delete it and re-import to put things back. If
mutable changes are going to be make, it's best to use
Erunt or System Restore. Note: System Restore will not
restore the SAM hive (passwords and the like).

Yep, I noticed SAM business awhile back. Thanks for the
reminder!

...

For backing up an operating system, I think a better option
is to create an image of the partition using imaging
software.

No arguement there! I've been threatening to acquire an imaging
app for some time but seem to keep procrastinating; after several
carefree years, I could have used that twice this year so far.

Acronis True Image is a good choice.
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage

Gonna look at it, along with a couple others.

....

The registry was never intended to edited by the novice
user. At least not without expert advise.

Dunno if that's the case or not, but it makes sense. I've always
mused about why MS didn't bother to put together a toy or util to
handle the registry and throw away or at least rewrite their
crazy documentation for regedit, and lead their users to the
right areas. Rhetorical; not looking to debate any of this<g>.
Yes, I'm aware of the gpedit etc. etc tools available. Very
handy but ... umm, I said rhetorical - I'd better shut up<g>!

Thanks for all your time!

I'm gone,

Pop

 

[Bert Kinney]

Hi,

I thought you may find these articles, and guided help interesting.

How to back up, edit, and restore the registry in Windows XP and Windows
Server 2003
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/322756/en-us

How to recover from a corrupted registry that prevents Windows XP from
starting
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307545/en-us