Registry Cleaners

[Gerry]

John

Your comments about removing redundant entries causes me to question
whether they are redundant or just not needed at the present time? If in
the second category what problems are caused when the users needs change
and the registry entry is now needed? It is one thing to disable
something but removal can go a step too far.

You get the same situation when users massacre the default settings for
services and then cannot figure out why something does not work. Changes
can often yield little benefit and store up annoying consequences and
problems for the future!


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[John John - MVP]

John

Your comments about removing redundant entries causes me to question
whether they are redundant or just not needed at the present time? If in
the second category what problems are caused when the users needs change
and the registry entry is now needed? It is one thing to disable
something but removal can go a step too far.

That is the whole crux of the problem with these cleaners, they do at
time remove valid entries and unless you have extensive knowledge of
what is in your registry or unless you want to take the time that it
takes to do the research on the findings you just don't know for sure if
some of the entries are bogus or not, you can't trust these cleaners.
Often the problem caused by the cleaner goes unnoticed for weeks and
often time users don't connect the dots between the cleaner and the
problem. Most people use these cleaners to look for non existent
problems or to provide illusionary performance improvements, when used
for these purposes they can really cause more harm than good!

There are those who adamantly claim that using cleaners improves
performance on their machines therefore cleaning the registry is
beneficial. The improvement might have more to do with compaction than
anything else. Some of these cleaners do compact the registry and
unlike the removal of a few entries in the registry compaction can and
does at time improve performance. This has nothing to do with the
actual size of the registry or with the removal of a few unused entries,
it is just that having holes in the registry structure can affect the
way Windows reads and writes to the registry and this can affect
performance. You don't have to use registry cleaners to compact the
registry, this can be done with tools like PageDefrag or NTRegOpt and
unlike useless registry cleaners these tools are perfectly safe to use!

John

 

[Gerry]

John

So how would you do a before and after test to evaluate the benefits of
using NTRegOpt.

Will the benefits of NTRegOpt be more obvious where the user is
regularly installing and uninstalling applications than a user just adds
an occasional application. Will it help where the user swaps one
anti-virus for another?


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[R. McCarty]

The benefits would vary depending on how effective the uninstall works.
Many applications remove the core components but leave user specific
settings/customizations in place. ( In case of a program re-load ). Usually
stored in the local profile's \Application Data path.

The Registry has sections of "White Space" where the data is removed.
On average, a typical PC's Registry will compact from 3 to 9% of it's pre
NTRegOpt size. Even with that it's doubtful the PC's performance will
have any noticeable improvement after being compacted. ( Actually the
program writes out the Registry and then re-imports so no White Space
exists ).

The Registry is like a dictionary. Unless a specific entry is called for
any
other data exists but isn't referenced. The only thing I've ever seen in the
Registry that "MIGHT" cause a system effect is an orphaned service that
is called to load. These can be easily found by using AutoRuns and check
the "Image Path" column for a descriptor "File not Found."

 

[John John - MVP]

I don't know of specific tests, on the venerable NT4 the most noticeable
difference was on the boot up time and how quickly you would get to the
working desktop. NT4 was a fast operating system! It didn't have all
the bells and whistles (fluff) that newer Windows versions have.

John

 

[Gerry]

Thanks John for your further observations.


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gerry]

Thanks for your comments.

I cannot see how NTRegOpt will change the situation regarding entries
left behind by an ineffective uninstall process. I say this having read
your explanation of how NTRegOpt compacts.

I was aware of the usefulness of Autoruns to remove orphan start up
items. Complaints of error reports of this nature are quite common in
these newsgroups.

--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[antioch]

"Thanks everybody!"

Hi John D
This is my standard reply to those asking about Reg Cleaners -

I do not let any registry cleaner etc on my one and only computer.

If I get a problem then I fix it - if it aint broke I dont fix it.
If a computer owner, like me, has only basic user skills, and does not
know
what goes on in the Registry, then the last thing they should use is a
tool to do it.
The problem with me(and thousands of others) of limited techno ability, is
that I have no idea what goes on in the registry.
Until I am able to learn the hidden secrets in there I do not enter unless
held by the hand by somebody far more capable.
More damage can be caused than good done - it has been widely posted that
such a prog. gives a user no particular benefit.
Whether or not one gains any significant performance is questionable - I
have read more posts/articles to say that performing a registry clean does
not enhance performance to any degree.
In every thread I have read in newsgroups/forums in the last 2
years or more, the advice has come down against these Reg Cleaners.
I have no problem with those who recommend/support or whatever the use
of these cleaners. I think they have been lucky.
I just wish they would point out the other side of the coin to those who
may not have a clue what they are doing. The more responsible users I
have found also know what goes on in the registry and pick and choose what
But most never seem to consider the capabilities of the poster to
whom they reply.
When I had my rush of blood to the head and used the top computer
magazine recommended cleaner, I had not heard of 'backup' and
there was no such thing as System Restore. I had to get my local comp
shop to re-install Windows - so for me, never again.
But if just one scientific test could once and for all prove the overall
worthwhile of a Reg, cleaner and in particular show that it makes your
computer go faster, then I would be the first to shout "congratulations".

Added note -
A couple of months ago, Zone Alarm offered me their cleaning utility.
I asked them if the claim that their software improved performance was
backed by any tech/scientific proof/evidence, they replied that it was the
bits that removed TIF, temp folders/files and the like. They added that no
such tests had been done regarding the speed effect with the Reg Cleaner.
Does anybody know if there is any vendor of this snake-oil that can back up
their claim with proof?

Antioch

 

[noone]

With Windows 7, it's history and being replaced by Morro. It's not free.
It costs 49.95 US dollars. See:

Your point? The guy didn't have Windows 7.

http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/3/default.htm

So not only do they lie, you do too.

Not hardly although I see you never bothered to ,look at the link I
gave you.

That link is FREE. On the same page, they offer the PAID version.

 

[noone]

John

Would you go to a Witch Doctor if you weren't feeling very well?

I probably wouldn't but millions do.

 

[noone]

Creating a restore point before using a registry cleaner is certainly
a very good thing to do. If the registry cleaner screws up, and you
can use the restore point, you may be able to undo the damage it has
done.

But if the result of using the registry cleaner is an unbootable
computer (which *does* happen), you are out of luck unless you have
made an image or clone of the drive.

Add that danger of using a registry cleaner to the fact that cleaning
of the registry isn't needed and is dangerous, and it's obvious that
it's a serious mistake to use one. Leave the registry alone and don't
use any registry cleaner. Despite what many people think, and what
vendors of registry cleaning software try to convince you of, having
unused registry entries doesn't really hurt you.

The risk of a serious problem caused by a registry cleaner erroneously
removing an entry you need is far greater than any potential benefit
it may have.

Read http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000643.html

So, if nothing ever needs to be done to the registry, what about
NTREGOPT? Do you consider that safe?

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

So, if nothing ever needs to be done to the registry, what about
NTREGOPT? Do you consider that safe?

I have played very slightly with NTREGOPT, but have very little
experience with it. So take my views on it with a grain of salt. Yes,
as far as I know, it's safe to use.

 

[noone]

I have played very slightly with NTREGOPT, but have very little
experience with it. So take my views on it with a grain of salt. Yes,
as far as I know, it's safe to use.

Thanks.

 

[Tim Meddick]

If you'd look at my post - I never said reg cleaners do any good! However,
what I do say is to those people who seem to ignore pure logic and
experience that says an overblown registry is responsible for some speed
decrease as time goes on. The items I listed in my last post have been
knocked aside with no qualification of how they are wrong. I know these
effects to be truly visible and nobody can give me a satisfactory
explanation of what otherwise could cause these effects. One day I will
import the HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT hive on my old XP machine to a brand new XP
installation and ultimately prove once and for all that it is responsible
for those time delays that I have cited. (I may try it out on MS VPC very
shortly in fact)

==



Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[Tim Meddick]

Suppose you want to back up yet another unqualified answer with some logic
of your own? Pal.

==


Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[Gerry]

Tim

Are you removing redundant entries or those just not needed at the
present time? If in the second category won't problems be caused when
the users needs change and the registry entry is needed to accomodate
the change? How can automated registry cleaner have a crystal ball to
know what the user might want at a future time?


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Tim Meddick]

For the Nth time.... I have NOT (as yet) said anything about reg-cleaners.
Just the fact that an excessively sized registry is linked, or has links to
a certain decrease in overall performance. I think it's of vital importance
to keep the size of the registry down to a minimum by not installing too
many programs that are superfluous to what you are trying to accomplish on
your PC. Once it is of an excessive size there's not too much you can do
with a registry. This is because, quite rightly, even the best reg-cleaners
have to be cautious in what hey remove and the decrease in volume on entries
is not significant. Much more can be achieved by avoidance and the adage
'prevention is better than cure' is very true.
Reg cleaners do, I think, have a place though. I cite Randem's post
where he had so many entries to a .dll file that was preventing a program
from functioning, and the reg cleaner he used automated the clean-up of
these entries. I have tried using Regedit's 'Find' [F3] option to do
something similar, and you can be at it for hours on end...

==


Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[HeyBub]

I stand corrected but wouldn't use it.

Oh, go ahead.

I don't think it actually DOES anything, but it might make you feel better.
It's called the "Placebo Effect."

 

[HeyBub]

You can't possibly know that until you query the OP on what he means
by it. I say there IS such a thing, and I have seen it.

Is it bigger than a bread-box? What color is it?

 

[HeyBub]

That's condescending and not worthy of an MVP title claimant. Why do
you find there is never a reason to use a registry cleaner? Explain
it clearly, and with valid, verifiable references and someone might
be able to start taking you seriously at least about why you parrot
such things as you do.

Okay, I'll play. What good can come from a general registry cleaner?