Record Cable HDTV?

[Bill Anderson]

I'm running an All-in-Wonder 9600XT and an HDTV Wonder in my computer.
I can record onto my hard drive easily from my cable set top box using
S-Video input and the 9600, and I can record over the air HDTV
broadcasts using the HDTV Wonder.

But the HDTV reception here in my downtown concrete canyon condo is
spotty. Sometimes I get what I want, and sometimes I don't.

So I'd like to record HDTV directly from my set top box. But how to
connect?

My cable company has agreed to deliver a new set top box next Saturday,
complete with IEEE 1394 Firewire output. Well, it's a start.

Now I know I can buy a Macintosh and record to a hard drive from that
Firewire output. And I know I can buy an HDTV VCR and record that way.
http://reviews.cnet.com/JVC_HM_DH5U/4505-6476_7-31200678-2.html?tag=nav

But I'd sure like to record HDTV from that Firewire output onto my PC.
I used to have an All-in-Wonder 8500DV with Firewire input, and in fact
I can probably get it back from the nephew I gave it to, if I must. But
would it capture HDTV? I doubt it, somehow.

I keep looking at that HDTV Wonder. Anybody know of a way to get an HD
signal from the Firewire output of a set top box into an HDTV Wonder?
Fool the HDTV Wonder into thinking it's getting an over the air signal?
Maybe? Hm?

 

[mxh]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3818890&&#post3818890

 

[Bill Anderson]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3818890&&#post3818890

Thank you very much. I probably should have mentioned that I had
already found that site. Now I'm going to show my ignorance here, so
please bear with me and be kind.

The site you provided says several things that puzzle me. Chief among
them is, "Plug in the 1394 cable." To that I say, "huh?" What sort of
cable would run from the 1394 output from my new cable box to ... my
computer? To my (more likely) HDTV Wonder? To my (almost certainly
not) 9600XT? To what connector on one of those cards? There is no 1394
connector on either of my cards.

I'll buy a 1394 connector card if necessary -- I have an empty slot. Is
that what I need? And if I do buy a 1394 connector card and run a
cable from the set top box to the new card, will the HDTV Wonder see it
as an input choice?

I suspect I'm missing something very simple here. At least I really
hope I'm missing something simple. Somebody please help me out. Thanks.

 

[mxh]

Thank you very much. I probably should have mentioned that I had already
found that site. Now I'm going to show my ignorance here, so please bear
with me and be kind.

The site you provided says several things that puzzle me. Chief among
them is, "Plug in the 1394 cable." To that I say, "huh?" What sort of
cable would run from the 1394 output from my new cable box to ... my
computer? To my (more likely) HDTV Wonder? To my (almost certainly not)
9600XT? To what connector on one of those cards? There is no 1394
connector on either of my cards.

The 1394 (Firewire) port would be what you would plug the cable into. Most
newer motherboards come with 1394 (firewire) support, often as an add on
accessory. If not, you can get a firewire card relatively cheap. I haven't
really read the "tutorial" yet, but according to a few posters there, it
does work.

Your video card and your HDTV Wonder are not involved in the process (The
HDTV Wonder is OTA only). My understanding from the brief perusal I've given
the tutorial is that all you need is a firewire enabled STB, a firwire port
and a few freeware capture drivers and software. A careful reading of the
post linked to should give you a pretty good chance of getting it set up,
and you can post questions there should the need arise (you will have to
subscribe to the forum if you wish to post).

I think the output files are in .ts format, which I'm not familiar with at
the moment, but the final HD files are supposed to be viewable via zoom or
theater tek. That's about all I can tell you at this point in time, but it
should point you in the right direction.

mxh

 

[Bill Anderson]

The 1394 (Firewire) port would be what you would plug the cable into. Most
newer motherboards come with 1394 (firewire) support, often as an add on
accessory. If not, you can get a firewire card relatively cheap.

Thanks once again -- thanks very much. I have ordered this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815152001

And I'll download and install the software from the site to which you
referred. I'm keeping my fingers crossed; maybe it'll all finally come
together on Saturday! I really appreciate the help.

 

[mxh]

Thanks once again -- thanks very much. I have ordered this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815152001

And I'll download and install the software from the site to which you
referred. I'm keeping my fingers crossed; maybe it'll all finally come
together on Saturday! I really appreciate the help.

I plan on eventually doing this myself, so any post back info on your
methods and results would be appreciated. I have everything I need (except
for downloading the drivers, etc.) but just haven't had the time. I am
enjoying Hi-def at the moment via a Motorolla HD enabled set top box
connected to a dell 2405fpw via the composite cables. Looks great, but am
not able to record until I have a chance to set it up.

Thanks,
mxh

 

[billanderson]

I plan on eventually doing this myself, so any post back info on your
methods and results would be appreciated. I have everything I need (except
for downloading the drivers, etc.) but just haven't had the time. I am
enjoying Hi-def at the moment via a Motorolla HD enabled set top box
connected to a dell 2405fpw via the composite cables. Looks great, but am
not able to record until I have a chance to set it up.

Thanks,
mxh

No problem. I'll plan to post a follow-up to this thread this Saturday
evening, assuming I get a chance to play with the setup after the new
box is delivered on Saturday morning.

I will confess to further stupidity. It never crossed my mind that I
had an IEEE 1394 connector already on my mbo, and I built the system
myself. Asus P4T-E. This morning when I rolled out of bed, the first
thing that crossed my mind was, "Wait a minute! Do I already have a
Firewire connection?" Grabbed the mbo manual and sure enough, there it
was. So I logged onto Newegg and cancelled the order. Seems to have
cancelled just fine. Later this morning I called my cable provider and
inquired about the new cable box -- what sort of IEEE 1394 cable will I
need? They had no idea, but they did give me the model number
(Motorola RDC 6208) and I looked it up on the Internet and even though
I didn't find that exact model, I believe the new unit will have a
6-pin connector socket. So I've ordered a cable from Newegg.
Three-day delivery. Should get it Friday, just in time. Thanks again
for the help. I let you know what I find out.

 

[mxh]

No problem. I'll plan to post a follow-up to this thread this Saturday
evening, assuming I get a chance to play with the setup after the new
box is delivered on Saturday morning.

I will confess to further stupidity. It never crossed my mind that I
had an IEEE 1394 connector already on my mbo, and I built the system
myself. Asus P4T-E. This morning when I rolled out of bed, the first
thing that crossed my mind was, "Wait a minute! Do I already have a
Firewire connection?" Grabbed the mbo manual and sure enough, there it
was. So I logged onto Newegg and cancelled the order. Seems to have
cancelled just fine. Later this morning I called my cable provider and
inquired about the new cable box -- what sort of IEEE 1394 cable will I
need? They had no idea, but they did give me the model number
(Motorola RDC 6208) and I looked it up on the Internet and even though
I didn't find that exact model, I believe the new unit will have a
6-pin connector socket. So I've ordered a cable from Newegg.
Three-day delivery. Should get it Friday, just in time. Thanks again
for the help. I let you know what I find out.

Good luck. I'll monitor this thread for your results.

Thanks,
mxh

 

[billanderson]

Good luck. I'll monitor this thread for your results.

It works. Sorta, but not exactly as I'd hoped. Not so far, anyway.

I'd ordered an IEEE 1394 cable from NewEgg and it was delivered without
problems a couple of days ago. Six pin connectors on both ends.

The cable isp guy delivered a new set top box this morning. Silly me,
I merely wanted a box with an IEEE 1394 outlet in the back. They said
they'd give me one for $1.08 more per month. I sighed and said OK.
Didn't realize the new box would be the equivalent of TiVo. I'm pretty
excited about the new box, never mind the IEEE 1394 outlet. Can't wait
to start playing with the TiVo capability.

But back to the subject -- the IEEE 1394 outlet works. And all the
instructions I used can be accessed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3818890&&#post3818890

However, as you might guess, my experience was a little more
complicated than what's described on that website.

First I installed everything in WinXP SP2. And sure enough, WinXP
detected the new Firewire connection. I installed drivers and such as
instructed on the website. And after a little setup, with no trouble
at all I was capturing HD video using CAPDVHS.exe. The output files
had the extension mpeg, not ts.

But when I tried to play them using a regular mpeg player, the videos
were jerky jerky jerky. Not good. And when I tried to play them using
the VLC Media Player available through a link on the website above, the
video wasn't jerky, but any horizontal motion resulted in awful tearing
of the video. The picture looked good as long as everybody held still.
But otherwise the quality was unacceptable.

Well, I have a spare partition on my primary hard drive, so I installed
WinXP Media Center Edition 2005 (MCE) on the empty partition. Now I
have a triple-boot system.

Then I installed the firewirebeta software I downloaded through that
website above. I thought I'd be able to capture using MCE software.
No such luck. Apparently I also needed to have my ATI All-in-Wonder
working with MCE, if I wanted firewirebeta software to work. I've
never been able to make my ATI card work with Windows MCE, even though
I paid ATI for a disk containing MCE drivers. So I felt pretty low at
that point.

But then I installed CAPDVHS and the VLC Media Player available through
that website above. And I captured using CPDVHS and it turned out that
the VLC Media Player works great in Windows XP MCE. No jerkiness at
all. Did I do something wrong with regular WinXP? I don't know yet.
I'm going to go back and try again. All I can tell you is that at this
point I can do this:

1) Capture HD video in WinXP MCE from my set top box using an IEEE 1394
connection and CapDVHS.

2) Play the HD video files I've captured on my computer monitor using
VLC Media Player. Looks really good.

And of course, using my ATI 9600XT, I can output the result to my
Panasonic plasma screen, which accepts SVGA input. I'm capturing an HD
movie right now from a premium channel that appears not to be
scrambled. Could be wrong about that, but in my first test I got HD
from HBO. Still need to prove that, but I really think I don't have
scrambling problems at this point.

If I really do get a usable HD video file, I'll need to see how I'm
going to put it on a blank DVD. Will it be too big to fit? I'll know
in about an hour.

 

[J. Clarke]

It works. Sorta, but not exactly as I'd hoped. Not so far, anyway.

I'd ordered an IEEE 1394 cable from NewEgg and it was delivered without
problems a couple of days ago. Six pin connectors on both ends.

The cable isp guy delivered a new set top box this morning. Silly me,
I merely wanted a box with an IEEE 1394 outlet in the back. They said
they'd give me one for $1.08 more per month. I sighed and said OK.
Didn't realize the new box would be the equivalent of TiVo. I'm pretty
excited about the new box, never mind the IEEE 1394 outlet. Can't wait
to start playing with the TiVo capability.

But back to the subject -- the IEEE 1394 outlet works. And all the
instructions I used can be accessed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3818890&&#post3818890

However, as you might guess, my experience was a little more
complicated than what's described on that website.

First I installed everything in WinXP SP2. And sure enough, WinXP
detected the new Firewire connection. I installed drivers and such as
instructed on the website. And after a little setup, with no trouble
at all I was capturing HD video using CAPDVHS.exe. The output files
had the extension mpeg, not ts.

But when I tried to play them using a regular mpeg player, the videos
were jerky jerky jerky. Not good. And when I tried to play them using
the VLC Media Player available through a link on the website above, the
video wasn't jerky, but any horizontal motion resulted in awful tearing
of the video. The picture looked good as long as everybody held still.
But otherwise the quality was unacceptable.

Well, I have a spare partition on my primary hard drive, so I installed
WinXP Media Center Edition 2005 (MCE) on the empty partition. Now I
have a triple-boot system.

Then I installed the firewirebeta software I downloaded through that
website above. I thought I'd be able to capture using MCE software.
No such luck. Apparently I also needed to have my ATI All-in-Wonder
working with MCE, if I wanted firewirebeta software to work. I've
never been able to make my ATI card work with Windows MCE, even though
I paid ATI for a disk containing MCE drivers. So I felt pretty low at
that point.

Just a comment here, but MCE _must_ have at least one tuner board with a
hardware analog encoder in order to record any kind of television. This is
a Microsoft limitation, not ATI--why they set it up that way I have no
idea, but they did.

Also, for HD playback with MCE, the preferred codec is the nvidia DVD codec
that you can sometimes buy off of their site (their store is up and down
more than an elevator)--the nvidia codec works fine with ATI boards. If
you paid for something from ATI it was probably an updated DVD codec with
HD capability.

 

[mxh]

It works. Sorta, but not exactly as I'd hoped. Not so far, anyway.

Thanks for the follow up.

I'd ordered an IEEE 1394 cable from NewEgg and it was delivered without
problems a couple of days ago. Six pin connectors on both ends.

The cable isp guy delivered a new set top box this morning. Silly me,
I merely wanted a box with an IEEE 1394 outlet in the back. They said
they'd give me one for $1.08 more per month. I sighed and said OK.
Didn't realize the new box would be the equivalent of TiVo. I'm pretty
excited about the new box, never mind the IEEE 1394 outlet. Can't wait
to start playing with the TiVo capability.

Hmmm...I'll have to check into that. I think here, though, it costs more and
is a "DVR option". I have a few remarks further down regarding playback and
archiving.

But back to the subject -- the IEEE 1394 outlet works. And all the
instructions I used can be accessed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3818890&&#post3818890

However, as you might guess, my experience was a little more
complicated than what's described on that website.

First I installed everything in WinXP SP2. And sure enough, WinXP
detected the new Firewire connection. I installed drivers and such as
instructed on the website. And after a little setup, with no trouble
at all I was capturing HD video using CAPDVHS.exe. The output files
had the extension mpeg, not ts.

But when I tried to play them using a regular mpeg player, the videos
were jerky jerky jerky. Not good. And when I tried to play them using
the VLC Media Player available through a link on the website above, the
video wasn't jerky, but any horizontal motion resulted in awful tearing
of the video. The picture looked good as long as everybody held still.
But otherwise the quality was unacceptable.

Well, I have a spare partition on my primary hard drive, so I installed
WinXP Media Center Edition 2005 (MCE) on the empty partition. Now I
have a triple-boot system.

Then I installed the firewirebeta software I downloaded through that
website above. I thought I'd be able to capture using MCE software.
No such luck. Apparently I also needed to have my ATI All-in-Wonder
working with MCE, if I wanted firewirebeta software to work. I've
never been able to make my ATI card work with Windows MCE, even though
I paid ATI for a disk containing MCE drivers. So I felt pretty low at
that point.

But then I installed CAPDVHS and the VLC Media Player available through
that website above. And I captured using CPDVHS and it turned out that
the VLC Media Player works great in Windows XP MCE. No jerkiness at
all. Did I do something wrong with regular WinXP?

From what I read in the forum (way back when...), TheaterTek and ZOOM were
two players that were recommended. There are demos available if you want to
give that a try. It may be easier than booting into MCE simply to watch a
movie (of course, you may have decided that you prefer MCE). That is, of
course, if those two players work to your satisfaction.

I don't know yet.
I'm going to go back and try again. All I can tell you is that at this
point I can do this:

1) Capture HD video in WinXP MCE from my set top box using an IEEE 1394
connection and CapDVHS.

It sounds as though setting that part of it up was fairly straight forward.
Encouraging, and motivates me to look into it soon, since it doesn't appear
to require much time (which seems to be at a premium these days...)

2) Play the HD video files I've captured on my computer monitor using
VLC Media Player. Looks really good.

And of course, using my ATI 9600XT, I can output the result to my
Panasonic plasma screen, which accepts SVGA input. I'm capturing an HD
movie right now from a premium channel that appears not to be
scrambled. Could be wrong about that, but in my first test I got HD
from HBO. Still need to prove that, but I really think I don't have
scrambling problems at this point.

Here, there are 11 HD channels via my cable provider, one of which is HBO.

If I really do get a usable HD video file, I'll need to see how I'm
going to put it on a blank DVD. Will it be too big to fit? I'll know
in about an hour.

I guess it depends on how it's captured, but I would think the file size
would be too big. However, I hear you can convert HD to DIVX or mp4 with
pretty good quality. You may have figured out a better way than now. Any
knowledge gained from your experience would be appreciated.

Thanks,
mxh

 

[billanderson]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

<bunchastuff snipped from a month-old post>

All I can tell you is that at this

point I can do this:

1) Capture HD video in WinXP MCE from my set top box using an IEEE 1394
connection and CapDVHS.

2) Play the HD video files I've captured on my computer monitor using
VLC Media Player. Looks really good.

And of course, using my ATI 9600XT, I can output the result to my
Panasonic plasma screen, which accepts SVGA input. I'm capturing an HD
movie right now from a premium channel that appears not to be
scrambled. Could be wrong about that, but in my first test I got HD
from HBO. Still need to prove that, but I really think I don't have
scrambling problems at this point.

If I really do get a usable HD video file, I'll need to see how I'm
going to put it on a blank DVD. Will it be too big to fit? I'll know
in about an hour.

Rather than start over with all this, I thought I'd just pick up with a
month-old thread. The earlier posts should still be online if you're
interested.

I've made a good bit of progress in fits and starts over the past
month. I have a working version of MCE installed in my spare
partition. I can use my ATI Remote Wonder (but not Remote Wonder II)
to control MCE, and I can view TV in MCE with my All-in-Wonder 9600XT
tuner. I can even listen to the radio through MCE.

So now I'm back to trying to capture HDTV on my hard drive.

It turned out that even though I could use VLC Media Player to play
HDTV video files captured via CapDVHS over an IEEE 1394 connection, the
results weren't as good as I'd thought at first. The picture looks
GREAT as long as nobody moves, but when there's motion there's also
severe tearing of the picture. And I wasn't able to make Zoom Player
work last month. I'll try again.

Anyway, last night for the first time I tried using MCE to play a file
captured with CapDVHS. At first I was delighted. The episode of The
Sopranos I'd captured in HD looked fine and there was zero tearing.
Then I noticed some flickering. It's not awful -- but it's annoying to
see what appears to be the brightness/contrast flicker up-down-up-down
erratically. Didn't notice it with VLC Media Player, but there it was
in MCE. Couldn't figure out what might be going on.

Then after a night's sleep it occurred to me that I might be seeing
some sort of Macrovision effect. Is it possible that recording HBO
through a FireWire IEEE 1394 connection to my cable box would result in
some sort of Macrovision problem? And if so, why do I see it in MCE
but not VLC Media Player? And also if so, what can I do to overcome
the problem? Are there any drivers for MCE that won't recognize
Macrovision, if indeed that's the problem I'm seeing?

Also -- are these questions better suited to a different newsgroup?
And if so, which one? Windows MCE? Is there a PC/HDTV group? I
haven't found one, but I confess I haven't spent a lot of time looking.

 

[T Shadow]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:


Also -- are these questions better suited to a different newsgroup?
And if so, which one? Windows MCE? Is there a PC/HDTV group? I
haven't found one, but I confess I haven't spent a lot of time looking.

If you type HDTV into the newsgroup tool you'll find what your looking for.

 

[J. Clarke]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

<bunchastuff snipped from a month-old post>

All I can tell you is that at this

Rather than start over with all this, I thought I'd just pick up with a
month-old thread. The earlier posts should still be online if you're
interested.

I've made a good bit of progress in fits and starts over the past
month. I have a working version of MCE installed in my spare
partition. I can use my ATI Remote Wonder (but not Remote Wonder II)
to control MCE, and I can view TV in MCE with my All-in-Wonder 9600XT
tuner. I can even listen to the radio through MCE.

So now I'm back to trying to capture HDTV on my hard drive.

It turned out that even though I could use VLC Media Player to play
HDTV video files captured via CapDVHS over an IEEE 1394 connection, the
results weren't as good as I'd thought at first. The picture looks
GREAT as long as nobody moves, but when there's motion there's also
severe tearing of the picture. And I wasn't able to make Zoom Player
work last month. I'll try again.

Anyway, last night for the first time I tried using MCE to play a file
captured with CapDVHS. At first I was delighted. The episode of The
Sopranos I'd captured in HD looked fine and there was zero tearing.
Then I noticed some flickering. It's not awful -- but it's annoying to
see what appears to be the brightness/contrast flicker up-down-up-down
erratically. Didn't notice it with VLC Media Player, but there it was
in MCE. Couldn't figure out what might be going on.

Then after a night's sleep it occurred to me that I might be seeing
some sort of Macrovision effect. Is it possible that recording HBO
through a FireWire IEEE 1394 connection to my cable box would result in
some sort of Macrovision problem? And if so, why do I see it in MCE
but not VLC Media Player? And also if so, what can I do to overcome
the problem? Are there any drivers for MCE that won't recognize
Macrovision, if indeed that's the problem I'm seeing?

Also -- are these questions better suited to a different newsgroup?
And if so, which one? Windows MCE? Is there a PC/HDTV group? I
haven't found one, but I confess I haven't spent a lot of time looking.

Are you using the ATI codec? If so, try the nvidia, which works fine with
ATI boards and is generally regarded as being the best to use for HD with
MCE.

Downside is that you have to pay for it.

 

[Tom Scales]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Then after a night's sleep it occurred to me that I might be seeing
some sort of Macrovision effect. Is it possible that recording HBO
through a FireWire IEEE 1394 connection to my cable box would result in
some sort of Macrovision problem? And if so, why do I see it in MCE
but not VLC Media Player? And also if so, what can I do to overcome
the problem? Are there any drivers for MCE that won't recognize
Macrovision, if indeed that's the problem I'm seeing?

Also -- are these questions better suited to a different newsgroup?
And if so, which one? Windows MCE? Is there a PC/HDTV group? I
haven't found one, but I confess I haven't spent a lot of time looking.

I am downright shocked that you can even capture HBO. I can't. Any
encrypted channels don't put anything out the firewire port.

Tom

 

[Bill Anderson]

I am downright shocked that you can even capture HBO. I can't. Any
encrypted channels don't put anything out the firewire port.

Well that's very interesting. And the more I think about it, the less
it seems likely that the problem I'm seeing is a result of Macrovision.
Why bother to encrypt a set top box's output? Why not just disable
it, as you've experienced? I'm going to play around some more with
different drivers and file players. I'll keep you posted. Thanks.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Are you using the ATI codec?

Yep.


If so, try the nvidia, which works fine with

ATI boards and is generally regarded as being the best to use for HD with
MCE.

Will do. Thanks.

Downside is that you have to pay for it.

Ouch. Well, I'll see what I can do. There's a 30-day free trial,
apparently. If it works, it'll be worth it, I think.

 

[Bill Anderson]

If you type HDTV into the newsgroup tool you'll find what your looking for.

Many thanks.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Are you using the ATI codec? If so, try the nvidia, which works fine with
ATI boards and is generally regarded as being the best to use for HD with
MCE.

OK, I've downloaded the ATI Codec and run the installation program. But
what now? When I looked at Device manager, all the ATI drivers seemed
still to be loaded under "sound, video and game controllers." So I went
to program files, found the nVideo folder, and ran NVIDIA Settings.MCL.
That brought up MCE and I loaded the HDTV file, but it still flashed
as before. Exactly as before.

So how do I make MCE use the nVidea drivers rather than the ATI drivers?
This is such as stupid question, I know. But I'm stumped.

 

[Bill Anderson]

OK, I've downloaded the ATI Codec

Argh. I meant to say I've downloaded the *nVidia* codec and run the
installation program. Argh again.

and run the installation program. But