R800 Clogged up!

[Guest]

Hi,

Just thought you'd like to know that my Epson R800 became well and
truly clogged after only 30 days use. The problems coincided with a
change to Jettec inks though of course these inks may not have caused
the problems as Jettec guard their reputation for high quality.
Talking of which, Jettec have agreed to take the R800 back in for
inspection and if they can't fix it they'll send me a new one - very
helpful company to deal with so far then.

Epson on the other hand did the old 'have you been using third party
inks' routine when I phoned them - of course I could have wasted £90
replacing the carts with Epson ones just to send it back but what's the
point?

When it's working properly the R800 is a mighty fine photo printer but
seeing as this one replaced an Epson 875DC (with permanently clogged
yellow) I'm suspicious of all Epson kit now.

Thought I'd make this post because I seem to be the only R800 owner in
the world that has experienced clogging problems. Will let you know
how I get on with Jettec.

Cheers,

René

 

[William Bell]

Hi,

Just thought you'd like to know that my Epson R800 became well and
truly clogged after only 30 days use. The problems coincided with a
change to Jettec inks though of course these inks may not have caused
the problems as Jettec guard their reputation for high quality.
Talking of which, Jettec have agreed to take the R800 back in for
inspection and if they can't fix it they'll send me a new one - very
helpful company to deal with so far then.

Epson on the other hand did the old 'have you been using third party
inks' routine when I phoned them - of course I could have wasted £90
replacing the carts with Epson ones just to send it back but what's the
point?

When it's working properly the R800 is a mighty fine photo printer but
seeing as this one replaced an Epson 875DC (with permanently clogged
yellow) I'm suspicious of all Epson kit now.

Thought I'd make this post because I seem to be the only R800 owner in
the world that has experienced clogging problems. Will let you know
how I get on with Jettec.

Cheers,

René

You do need a Driver License to run a Epson, I am on my third one printer.

Please read the advice given by me and others on how not to get clogged heads.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I find this posting suspect.

You admit the R800 clogged right after you replaced the Epson ink
cartridges with a third party product. You then blame Epson for not
taking responsibility for this clog which occurred right after you
changed the ink. Somehow your case is coincidental, in spite that you
admit there have been no reports of clogged heads in the R800 (yet). It
is a very new printer, but I know of several cases of people who have
gone through over 4 sets of ink with no problem.

You are suspect of the Epson because your Epson 875DC clogged. You
don't say how long you had it and under what conditions you it clogged.

You state the R800 replaced the 875DC. I can't tell if that was a
replacement by Epson or what. I can state that there is a 98% chance
that the "permanently clogged yellow head" could have been cleared of
that clog and been made into a printer almost as new with a little home
maintenance.

I also wonder how you know "Jettec guard their reputation for high
quality". It seems to me they are, at least for now, accepting some
responsibility for the clog, but you still blame Epson.

While Jettec may indeed "guard their reputation" they may still be at
fault. Maybe the inks react with each other, maybe they made a bad
batch, maybe its all a coincidences, but we don't know. What I do know
is "guarding one's reputation" doesn't prove the product is appropriate.

I think that Jettec is being responsible in evaluating the printer to
determine if their inks were involved in the failure, but that doesn't
imply the problem wasn't of their product's doing, and it certainly
doesn't point the finger at Epson, at least not yet.

I know you don't want to irritate Jettec while they have your printer
and may replace it for you, but your posting is pretty biased,
especially considering the circumstantial evidence turns exactly 180
degrees to your own conclusions. I think you should have waited for
much more knowledge before making a public pronouncement, don't you think?

Art

 

[Michael Doherty]

Funny that. I have a 950 which always gave the appearance of being blocked
when using Jettec cartridges. What was actually happening was the cartridges
were draining so there was no ink in the cartridge even if they showed 70%
full.
This appears to be a fault caused by pulling the pin out of the cartridge
when removing the tab. The cartridges in which the tab snapped and left the
hole blocked by the pin gave me no trouble at all, other than needing the
occasional clean.
I did receive an email from Jettec stating that the hole should remain
blocked to stop the cartridge leaking and, that should a pin pull out when
removing the tab, the hole should be blocked with tape.

I have returned to using Genuine Epson cartridges and since then I have had
no trouble at all, perfect prints first time every time, without the need
for the occasional clean.

Costs more for Ink, but money saved on reprints of misprinted media.

 

[kstewart]

Have had a R800 for four months

Never had a clog

Only used Epson ink

keith

 

[The Computer Shop]

We run a computer shop and Epson Express centre up North and have had major
problems
with JetTec ink accross the WHOLE Epson range not just the R800.

It is in our opinion that the JetTec range cause blocking problems with
Epson products.

Arron.
www.peterlee.info

 

[Si]

As a pro photographer I wouldn't use any third party ink products....selling
my prints on Epson paper with Epson ink is the only way for me (and yes,
I've tried HP and Canon)...

However, back in the day I used to use a Stylus Photo 915 - very bad cloggs.
But since switching to an R200 (and perhaps soon an R800) I've had very few
problems.

Si.

 

[pete]

Have had a R800 for four months

Never had a clog

Only used Epson ink

Carry on, we need people like yourself to subsidise the cost of printers!

 

[Si]

Carry on, we need people like yourself to subsidise the cost of printers!

If you are happy with sub-standard then keep buying your third party inks.

As a pro, I sell reprints with Epson ink on Epson media to the general
public. I make a scandalous profit. Therefore, I buy the genuine inks and
paper.

Si.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

For a service facility to make a statement like this, give some pause
about the product line.

Now, it is possible this place sells a lot of Epson ink cartridges, but
more likely they make money on repairs, and if that is the case,
promoting inks that clog would be to their advantage... it seems like
there may be some validity to this report (unless it is a competitor
selling their own inks ;-))

Are most Jettec clients satisfied with the ink, or not?

Art

 

[kstewart]

Glad to help


keith

 

[Zero]

I find this posting suspect.

You admit the R800 clogged right after you replaced the Epson ink
cartridges with a third party product. You then blame Epson for not
taking responsibility for this clog which occurred right after you
changed the ink.

Hi Art,

Well, the failure didn't happen straight away - for a while the printer
ran perfectly with combined Epson and Jettec inks on board. As the
original Epson ones ran out so they were replaced by Jettec items. In
fact I changed the cyan and yellow twice with Jettec before needing a
magenta. It was when I replaced this cart for the first time that it
all started going wrong. To me it seemed to be a mechanical failure
with the printer - I even ditched the offending magenta cart for
another (Jettec) one but to no avail. Why should a printer that was
working fine with a third party product all of a sudden NOT work?

I have some evidence that early R800s had problems with cracked intake
ports (where the cart's ink outlet meets the printer). Bought last
July, I'd say my R800 was one of the first...

Or, maybe it is as you suggest; some sort of chemical reaction, in this
case with the magenta.

As for blaming Epson for not taking responsibility - at the end of the
day, I bought an expensive printer to print photos. The printer
printed the most beautiful images I've ever seen, until it broke down -
therefore it is a warranty claim against Epson. Whether or not I chose
to use third party consumables in it makes no difference; despite
Epson's FUD in this respect they cannot force customers to buy their
(overpriced) inks by threatening not to honour the warranty, because
this is against the law. You have to bear in mind where the profit is
- you guessed it; in the inks and papers, not the printer itself.
Incidentally, I only use Epson's very best photo paper.

Somehow your case is coincidental, in spite that you
admit there have been no reports of clogged heads in the R800 (yet). It
is a very new printer, but I know of several cases of people who have

gone through over 4 sets of ink with no problem.

They are on Epson ink? OK, I have to admit, if faced with a free
choice of Epson or Jettec ink for my printer, I'd choose Epson. Faced
with the bill, I'd choose Jettec.

What I'd like to know is; who is using third party ink to print lots of
photos, trouble free, on an R800?

You state the R800 replaced the 875DC. I can't tell if that was a
replacement by Epson or what.

I still have the 875DC - now used for printing invoices.

I can state that there is a 98% chance
that the "permanently clogged yellow head" could have been cleared of

that clog and been made into a printer almost as new with a little home
maintenance.

Hmm - I've tried ALL this 'maintenance'on the 875DC; Windowlene, paper
towels, running cleaning cycles and leaving the thing overnight etc.
None of it worked. Then again, why should I have to mess about with my
printer like this? If I look at Canon for instance, I see non-chipped
cartridges and removable print heads. To top this the cost of the
proper Canon carts isn't extortionate, unlike Epson's prices.

So, why did I choose the R800? On the basis that it was the best photo
printer available that took my favourite paper and could also use a
ready supply of high quality, reasonably priced third party inks.

I also wonder how you know "Jettec guard their reputation for high
quality". It seems to me they are, at least for now, accepting some
responsibility for the clog,

Because they state this in their guarantee - if their product causes a
problem, they'll take the printer in and sort it out.

While Jettec may indeed "guard their reputation" they may still be at

fault. Maybe the inks react with each other, maybe they made a bad
batch, maybe its all a coincidences, but we don't know. What I do know
is "guarding one's reputation" doesn't prove the product is

appropriate.

Quite true, but I am assured that there are many satisfied Jettec users
out there. Maybe they're not all as fussy as me when it comes to photo
quality output. For me, an inkjet photo has to be indistinguishable
from a RA45 print. This *was* achieved to begin with using part
Jettec, part Epson ink.

I think that Jettec is being responsible in evaluating the printer to

determine if their inks were involved in the failure, but that doesn't
imply the problem wasn't of their product's doing, and it certainly
doesn't point the finger at Epson, at least not yet.

Quite honestly, I don't know which is to blame. However, Epson have
now replaced the printer and Jettec are sending me a complimentary set
of cartridges for my trouble.

Both companies are therefore rather brill. But, I haven't plucked up
the courage to even unpack the printer yet.

I know you don't want to irritate Jettec while they have your printer

and may replace it for you, but your posting is pretty biased,
especially considering the circumstantial evidence turns exactly 180
degrees to your own conclusions. I think you should have waited for
much more knowledge before making a public pronouncement, don't you think?

Nooo - that's what Usenet is for! Put it this way, there are other
Jettec / R800 users out there and they will find this thread most
helpful. I'm hoping that one or two will pipe up and declare the
Jettec cart to be absolutely fine for photo work, then again maybe the
opposite will happen. Then we'll all know for sure.

What I'm trying to achieve is a characterisation of the problem - from
there a solution will emerge.

R.

 

[Zero]

For a service facility to make a statement like this, give some pause

about the product line.

Now, it is possible this place sells a lot of Epson ink cartridges, but
more likely they make money on repairs, and if that is the case,
promoting inks that clog would be to their advantage... it seems like

there may be some validity to this report (unless it is a competitor
selling their own inks ;-))

Quite right - vested interests galore.

However, they may well be right!

Are most Jettec clients satisfied with the ink, or not?

We need to know!!!

 

[Al Dykes]

Hi Art,

Well, the failure didn't happen straight away - for a while the printer
ran perfectly with combined Epson and Jettec inks on board. As the
original Epson ones ran out so they were replaced by Jettec items. In
fact I changed the cyan and yellow twice with Jettec before needing a
magenta. It was when I replaced this cart for the first time that it
all started going wrong. To me it seemed to be a mechanical failure
with the printer - I even ditched the offending magenta cart for
another (Jettec) one but to no avail. Why should a printer that was
working fine with a third party product all of a sudden NOT work?

I have some evidence that early R800s had problems with cracked intake
ports (where the cart's ink outlet meets the printer). Bought last
July, I'd say my R800 was one of the first...

Or, maybe it is as you suggest; some sort of chemical reaction, in this
case with the magenta.

As for blaming Epson for not taking responsibility - at the end of the
day, I bought an expensive printer to print photos. The printer
printed the most beautiful images I've ever seen, until it broke down -
therefore it is a warranty claim against Epson. Whether or not I chose
to use third party consumables in it makes no difference; despite
Epson's FUD in this respect they cannot force customers to buy their
(overpriced) inks by threatening not to honour the warranty, because
this is against the law. You have to bear in mind where the profit is
- you guessed it; in the inks and papers, not the printer itself.
Incidentally, I only use Epson's very best photo paper.



They are on Epson ink? OK, I have to admit, if faced with a free
choice of Epson or Jettec ink for my printer, I'd choose Epson. Faced
with the bill, I'd choose Jettec.

What I'd like to know is; who is using third party ink to print lots of
photos, trouble free, on an R800?



I still have the 875DC - now used for printing invoices.



Hmm - I've tried ALL this 'maintenance'on the 875DC; Windowlene, paper
towels, running cleaning cycles and leaving the thing overnight etc.
None of it worked. Then again, why should I have to mess about with my
printer like this? If I look at Canon for instance, I see non-chipped
cartridges and removable print heads. To top this the cost of the
proper Canon carts isn't extortionate, unlike Epson's prices.

So, why did I choose the R800? On the basis that it was the best photo
printer available that took my favourite paper and could also use a
ready supply of high quality, reasonably priced third party inks.


Because they state this in their guarantee - if their product causes a
problem, they'll take the printer in and sort it out.


appropriate.

Quite true, but I am assured that there are many satisfied Jettec users
out there. Maybe they're not all as fussy as me when it comes to photo
quality output. For me, an inkjet photo has to be indistinguishable
from a RA45 print. This *was* achieved to begin with using part
Jettec, part Epson ink.



Quite honestly, I don't know which is to blame. However, Epson have
now replaced the printer and Jettec are sending me a complimentary set
of cartridges for my trouble.

Both companies are therefore rather brill. But, I haven't plucked up
the courage to even unpack the printer yet.



Nooo - that's what Usenet is for! Put it this way, there are other
Jettec / R800 users out there and they will find this thread most
helpful. I'm hoping that one or two will pipe up and declare the
Jettec cart to be absolutely fine for photo work, then again maybe the
opposite will happen. Then we'll all know for sure.

What I'm trying to achieve is a characterisation of the problem - from
there a solution will emerge.

R.

A search of google groups for "jettec ink" gets about 2400 hits. A
click scan shown that some of them are not very happy.

 

[Harvey]

[...]

A search of google groups for "jettec ink" gets about 2400 hits. A
click scan shown that some of them are not very happy.

--

Doing a search for "Epson Ink Clog" returns just about as many hits of
people who have used JUST Epson inks and still have head clog problems.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I find myself in an odd situation here. I certainly have a number of
issues with how Epson approaches their ink sales, and cartridge design,
and I am not pleased with their business model, or the waste they create
in the cartridges being non-reusable.

However, although I'm happy on your account that Epson chose to replace
your printer, I am less happy on my account, (because there is a good
likelihood they should not have) and because you are not correct about
where the laws stand on their warranty.

Although there are differences between the law used in different
countries, they are all pretty much based upon the concept of what is
referred to as Tie-In sales. The basis in law is that a company should
not be able to require a purchaser to have to buy certain goods to get
other goods, and that creating a warranty that forces a present to use
certain specific parts or consumables in order to maintain a warranty is
another way to coerce a purchaser into having to buy a tied-in product.

However, the law goes further in its interpretation, and I feel that
this is only fair. The warranty cannot be refused on account of use of
of a different brand of consumable IF:

1) The consumable was not in any way related to the nature of the
failure (as an example a company would have a hard time proving a power
supply failure was related to the brand of paper you used)

2) The consumable product was a reasonable equivalent and met the
manufacturer's or an independent bodies standards.

For instance, you use a standard brand of gasoline or oil in your car
that is equivalent or exceeds the manufacturer's stated standards to
protect the car, the manufacturer cannot deny the warranty claiming that
the engine failure was caused by the oil or gas not being their brand.

However, let's say the gasoline was too low an octane, causing pinking
or it contained dirt and water in it, or the oil did not have proper
anti-oxidation additives and became sludgy and clogged the oil ports, so
the engine died from friction. That would be a legitimate right for the
manufacture to bill for the engine failure.

Epson recently paid for an "independent" test on their inks compared to
several un-named brands. However, these unnamed inks were described by
origin. Several were made in the UK and sold in the UK and the US.
Some were made in China, one or two were US.

All were found to be inferior, either leading to lower yield per
cartridge, or more often leading to rather severe clogging. The tests
were done both with refill inks, and with "compatible" cartridges.

Now I know that Epson makes their profits on the ink, but then again, so
do the 3rd party vendors, and they don't have the cost of making the
printers which are often sold near cost.

In many cases, especially with Durabrite and Ultrachrome substitute inks
there are some major clogs that can occur. The people I know that are
using the R800 have used exclusively Eposninks, andEpson inks still
printing without difficulties.

So, yes, you got a new or refurb printer from Epson, and that's "nice"
but it is also what raises costs for everyone. Head clogs are always
the result of the ink, on some level. The risk of problems with newer
ink formulations made by 3rd party is yet a higher risk. Yes, it saves
money, but how can you expect Epson to be responsible? People could
feed anything into their printers.

Epson has taken a policy of not arguing too often about this issue,
because of the misperception about the law, and because it would become
a he said/she said situation. But there may come a time, especially as
OEM ink products lose market share to compatibles, that Epson may well
dig in their heels and say, we will test each printer for inks
installed, and if it's a head clog and a 3rd party ink, we will only
repair or replace by charging the customer. They would be in their
rights to do so, and it would lower costs for others. Warranty repair
and replacement is one of the most expensive cost in servicing a client.

I'm guessing, as profit margins shrink some companies may indeed begin
to get hard-nosed. Especially in the low end printers, where they give
you the printer for the "cost" of the ink, and then people use
non-branded ink, to save money, but expect the printer manufacturer to
pay cost to repair or replace when bad ink is used.


As far as usenet, I think perhaps couching the terms a bit more fairly
without jumping to conclusions as to cause, may have been more fair,
especially consdiering the company got you a new printer.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Then again, if you do a Google search on just about anything or any
product you will find some unhappy campers. It might be an indication,
however if the numbers start looking convincing.

Art



Al Dykes wrote:

 

[measekite]

Do you know if Canon has the same head clogging issue when using the
higher quality 3rd party inks?

 

[Hecate]

Do you know if Canon has the same head clogging issue when using the
higher quality 3rd party inks?

Canon's problem is usually head burn out.

 

[puss]

I find myself in an odd situation here. I certainly have a number of
issues with how Epson approaches their ink sales, and cartridge design,
and I am not pleased with their business model, or the waste they create
in the cartridges being non-reusable.

The EU has or is bringing out a law that will ban chipped Ink Tanks, and they
must be refillable..

Its to do with EU Pollution laws..