Question on Processor Specs

[David]

Hello Folks, my first post here...

I just had a new machine built, and thought you home-builders might be the
most knowledgeable to answer this question.

On the purchase order for my build, I was quoted an "Intel Pentium D 940
3.2 GHz (800 MHz) Dual-Core - LGA775 Socket - L2 4 MB (2 x 2 MB) - Box"

However, when I run Belarc Advisor, it states, "3.00 GHz Intel Pentium D,
16 KB primary memory cache, and 2048 KB secondary memory cache"

And when I run MSINFO32, it shows, "Processor x86 Family 15 Model 6
Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~ 3000 Mhz", although this description is printed
twice.

My question is this, have I really gotten the processor that was quoted? I
am hoping that the answer is simply that Belarc and MSINFO32 haven't kept
up with dual-core processors yet, but would really like to know for
certain. Can anyone please help me?

Thank you very much,
David

 

[Dave]

Hello Folks, my first post here...

I just had a new machine built, and thought you home-builders might be the
most knowledgeable to answer this question.

On the purchase order for my build, I was quoted an "Intel Pentium D 940
3.2 GHz (800 MHz) Dual-Core - LGA775 Socket - L2 4 MB (2 x 2 MB) - Box"

However, when I run Belarc Advisor, it states, "3.00 GHz Intel Pentium D,
16 KB primary memory cache, and 2048 KB secondary memory cache"

And when I run MSINFO32, it shows, "Processor x86 Family 15 Model 6
Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~ 3000 Mhz", although this description is printed
twice.

My question is this, have I really gotten the processor that was quoted?
I
am hoping that the answer is simply that Belarc and MSINFO32 haven't kept
up with dual-core processors yet, but would really like to know for
certain. Can anyone please help me?

Thank you very much,
David

What does your mainboard BIOS identify this processor as? -Dave

 

[David]

What does your mainboard BIOS identify this processor as? -Dave

Thank you for your response, Dave

From the Bios:
Processor Type: Intel (R) Pentium (R) D {I assume R means "trademark
registered"?}
Intel (R) EM64T Capable
Software Single Processor Mode <Disable>
Processor Speed 3.00 GHz
System Bus Speed 800 MHz
System Memory Speed 667 MHz
L2 Cache RAM 2048 KB
Total Memory 2048 MB
Memory Mode Dual Channel
Memory Channel A 1024 MB
Memory Channel B 1024 MB

I probably didn't need to note the main memory, but just in case...

My interpretation is that I got a slower processor, and half the L2 cache
-- is that your interpretation?

Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, is there any way, or
misinterpretation, that you can see, which might indicate that they thought
they were installing the processor that they quoted on the P.O.? i.e., for
example, could there have been a typo in the above quote?

Thank you again,
David

 

[Paul]

Hello Folks, my first post here...

I just had a new machine built, and thought you home-builders might be the
most knowledgeable to answer this question.

On the purchase order for my build, I was quoted an "Intel Pentium D 940
3.2 GHz (800 MHz) Dual-Core - LGA775 Socket - L2 4 MB (2 x 2 MB) - Box"

However, when I run Belarc Advisor, it states, "3.00 GHz Intel Pentium D,
16 KB primary memory cache, and 2048 KB secondary memory cache"

And when I run MSINFO32, it shows, "Processor x86 Family 15 Model 6
Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~ 3000 Mhz", although this description is printed
twice.

My question is this, have I really gotten the processor that was quoted? I
am hoping that the answer is simply that Belarc and MSINFO32 haven't kept
up with dual-core processors yet, but would really like to know for
certain. Can anyone please help me?

Thank you very much,
David

Other utilities:

*******
Intel Processor Identification Utility
http://www.intel.com/support/processors/tools/piu/sb/CS-014921.htm

CPUZ
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Everest (formerly AIDA32) - last free version
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
*******

Also, if I look here, note the 0F62h on this page. 0F62
is the same as saying "Family 15 Model 6 Stepping 2", only in
hexidecimal. However, finding 0F62 hex, is not a sufficient
identifier, so use some utilities to be sure.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL94Q

Paul

 

[Dave]

From the Bios:
Processor Type: Intel (R) Pentium (R) D {I assume R means "trademark
registered"?}
Intel (R) EM64T Capable
Software Single Processor Mode <Disable>
Processor Speed 3.00 GHz
System Bus Speed 800 MHz
System Memory Speed 667 MHz
L2 Cache RAM 2048 KB
Total Memory 2048 MB
Memory Mode Dual Channel
Memory Channel A 1024 MB
Memory Channel B 1024 MB

It looks like your mainboard BIOS might have misidentified the processor.
Have you double-checked that your mainboard fully supports the processor,
with the specific BIOS revision that you are running? -Dave

 

[Michael Hawes]

Thank you for your response, Dave

From the Bios:
Processor Type: Intel (R) Pentium (R) D {I assume R means "trademark
registered"?}
Intel (R) EM64T Capable
Software Single Processor Mode <Disable>
Processor Speed 3.00 GHz
System Bus Speed 800 MHz
System Memory Speed 667 MHz
L2 Cache RAM 2048 KB
Total Memory 2048 MB
Memory Mode Dual Channel
Memory Channel A 1024 MB
Memory Channel B 1024 MB

I probably didn't need to note the main memory, but just in case...

My interpretation is that I got a slower processor, and half the L2 cache
-- is that your interpretation?

Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, is there any way, or
misinterpretation, that you can see, which might indicate that they
thought
they were installing the processor that they quoted on the P.O.? i.e.,
for
example, could there have been a typo in the above quote?

Thank you again,
David

Download and run CPU-Z. If shows wrong CPU, take it back to the supplier
and insist that they fix it. If it does need a BIOS update, they should do
it!
Mike.

 

[David]

It looks like your mainboard BIOS might have misidentified the processor.
Have you double-checked that your mainboard fully supports the processor,
with the specific BIOS revision that you are running? -Dave

Dave, that is getting way over my head -- I wouldn't know how to do it.

However, I have just finished installing and running the "Intel Processor
Identification Utility" that Paul (below) recommended. It in fact says
that my CPU is a Pent D 930, @ 3.00 GHz. Whereas Intel says the Pent D 940
runs @ 3.20 GHz. See:
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/pentium_d.htm
But further, the above table indicates L2 = 2 x 2 = 4 MB for *both*,
whereas the Utility indicates only 2 MB total L2 for my system! (Which
agrees with the Bios!). So I'm now really confused.

As I said, this is over my head. Are this many contradictions normal? (Or
maybe I'm just not getting it...)

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Dave]

Dave, that is getting way over my head -- I wouldn't know how to do it.

However, I have just finished installing and running the "Intel Processor
Identification Utility" that Paul (below) recommended. It in fact says
that my CPU is a Pent D 930, @ 3.00 GHz. Whereas Intel says the Pent D
940
runs @ 3.20 GHz. See:
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/pentium_d.htm
But further, the above table indicates L2 = 2 x 2 = 4 MB for *both*,
whereas the Utility indicates only 2 MB total L2 for my system! (Which
agrees with the Bios!). So I'm now really confused.

As I said, this is over my head. Are this many contradictions normal?
(Or
maybe I'm just not getting it...)

Thanks,
Dave

OK, I'll slow down a bit. Your processor should be (in theory at least)
what you paid for. However, the CPU won't perform as designed unless it is
FULLY supported by your mainboard BIOS. For example, if your FSB should be
133MHz but is actually 100MHz, then you might see a processor identified by
model but not by design speed. (the speed shown by BIOS might be 33% too
slow). Also, if the BIOS doesn't know that a 2nd L2 cache should be
present, it might not report that the cache exists. Oh, and if the BIOS
doesn't know what a Pent D 940 is, then it might represent such a beast as a
Pent D 930.

It is somewhat common for a mainboard to mis-identify a newish processor as
some other processor that the BIOS has stored in it's firmware database.
Let's say that your mainboard was manufactured before the mainboard maker
had the specs. for a Pent D 940. In some cases, that means a Pent D 940
won't work at all. In other cases, the BIOS might mis-identify the
processor, taking kind of an electronic 'educated guess' as to what
processor is installed.

If your BIOS has guessed wrong, it might be reporting the processor as a
Pent D 930 and running it accordingly.

Your next step is to visit the web site of whoever manufactured your
mainboard and look for the most recent BIOS version. See in the notes (for
the BIOS revisions) if support for later CPUs was added in one of them. If
so (and even if not) it might be a good idea to 'flash' the BIOS firmware to
the latest version that was released for your specific mainboard.

It's possible but somewhat unlikely that you have received the wrong CPU.
It is quite common for mainboards to mis-identify CPUs though. The problem
is, CPUs change a lot faster than mainboards do. If I built a mainboard
that would support every Intel socket 775 processor known today, it might be
outdated before it even hits the retail shelves. That's why you've always
got to check for BIOS revisions on your mainboard when you see a problem
like this.

If the latest BIOS identifies the processor as a Pentium D 930, THEN it's
time to call your computer vendor and ask them to send you a replacement or
a refund. If you don't know how to flash the BIOS, I'll include
instructions below. -Dave

Can someone walk me through how to upgrade my bios? It's for an asus
a8n-e.

Use really stupid text as I've been trying for a month now and I'm totally
confused.

Thanks, Bob

OK.

1) Create a MS-DOS bootable floppy diskette. See http://bootdisk.com/
"driver free disk for bios flashing"
2) You need a bios flashing program that you can download from Asus. Add
that to the boot disk created in step 1
3) You need the BIOS data file (sometimes called ROM or BIN file)
downloaded from asus for your SPECIFIC mainboard. This is the actual
firmware that will be used to upgrade your BIOS. The program in step 2 is a
helper program that will transfer this firmware from floppy to a chip on
your mainboard. Add this firmware / bios data file to the boot disk created
in step 1. The following appears to be correct, but double-check this!
4) Start or reboot the system with the floppy disk in the floppy disk
drive. If the floppy doesn't boot, you might have to hit DELETE as the
system is starting to enter BIOS menu and change boot sequence to include
the floppy disk drive.
5) You are now faced with a DOS prompt, something like:
A:\>
At the dos prompt, you will type a two-word command line. The first word
will be the title of the helper program, without the 3-letter extension.
(flashing program, from step 2). The second word will be the complete title
of the data file, including extension. If your flasher program is
"awdflash.exe" and your data file is "asus.rom", then the command you type
will look like:
A:\>awdflash asus.rom
Then hit enter key
The program will run and move the firmware from floppy disk to the chip on
your mainboard.


6) At this point, you are "done" already, but your system might not work
right until you clean up the old CMOS settings.
A) Restart your system and hit DELETE to enter BIOS setup screens. Find an
option called "load default settings" and select that, then exit bios setup,
saving changes. (system restarts again)
B) Test your system to make sure that everything appears to be working OK.
If not, unplug the computer, remove the CMOS battery from the mainboard and
short a jumper on the mainboard labelled "clear_CMOS" for about 15 seconds.
Then reinstall battery and put jumper back to where it was (run position or
normal position).


DONE! -Dave

 

[David]

Hello Folks, my first post here...

I just had a new machine built, and thought you home-builders might be the
most knowledgeable to answer this question.

On the purchase order for my build, I was quoted an "Intel Pentium D 940
3.2 GHz (800 MHz) Dual-Core - LGA775 Socket - L2 4 MB (2 x 2 MB) - Box"

However, when I run Belarc Advisor, it states, "3.00 GHz Intel Pentium D,
16 KB primary memory cache, and 2048 KB secondary memory cache"

And when I run MSINFO32, it shows, "Processor x86 Family 15 Model 6
Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~ 3000 Mhz", although this description is printed
twice.

My question is this, have I really gotten the processor that was quoted? I
am hoping that the answer is simply that Belarc and MSINFO32 haven't kept
up with dual-core processors yet, but would really like to know for
certain. Can anyone please help me?

Hi Paul and Mike,
I have run CPU-Z, per your rec. It indeed shows Pentium D 930, @ 3.00 GHz.
and ... confirms L2 @ (2 x 2048 KB). So that's 4/4 on Pent D 930; and 2/4
on L2 @ (2 x 2), or (1 x 2).

Dave,
Thank you so much for all of your detail and explanation! I need to study
it yet though. But gotta' wait until tomorrow -- time crunch going on here
right now...

All,
I'm wondering -- there are enough contradictions now that maybe I should
just tell the vendor to "fix it". I have to take the box back to him
anyway, for an unrelated issue. But need to tend to an impending emergency
right now.

Thanks much everyone,
David

 

[JamesG]

All,
I'm wondering -- there are enough contradictions now that maybe I should
just tell the vendor to "fix it". I have to take the box back to him
anyway, for an unrelated issue. But need to tend to an impending emergency
right now.

Thanks much everyone,
David

Since you just bought the computer I would suggest that you document
the steps you took in looking at this and take it back to your vendor
and have them fix it. I feel that you have went above and beyond what
should be expected of a consumer in this instance. Especially since
you are taking the computer back anyway for something else.
While it is helpful that someone here posted information on updating
your BIOS, I would suggest that you get your vendor to do it in this
case since the computer that you were sold did not present itself as
what you were quoted. Flashing a BIOS is not hard, but you might as
well let them deal with this and there is a slight possibility of
problems that would best be dealt with by your vendor.

Good Luck,
James

 

[David]

Since you just bought the computer I would suggest that you document
the steps you took in looking at this and take it back to your vendor
and have them fix it. I feel that you have went above and beyond what
should be expected of a consumer in this instance. Especially since
you are taking the computer back anyway for something else.
While it is helpful that someone here posted information on updating
your BIOS, I would suggest that you get your vendor to do it in this
case since the computer that you were sold did not present itself as
what you were quoted. Flashing a BIOS is not hard, but you might as
well let them deal with this and there is a slight possibility of
problems that would best be dealt with by your vendor.

Good Luck,
James

Thanks James,
I appreciate your support. I have indeed printed out the analyses of the
several utilities/tools, and will take these to the vendor. And, after
thinking about it, and since I am taking the machine back anyway, I might
get myself into trouble if I make a mistake while updating the BIOS. Then
they could be inclined to "disown" the problem...
David

 

[David]

Hi Paul and Mike,
I have run CPU-Z, per your rec. It indeed shows Pentium D 930, @ 3.00 GHz.
and ... confirms L2 @ (2 x 2048 KB). So that's 4/4 on Pent D 930; and 2/4
on L2 @ (2 x 2), or (1 x 2).

Dave,
Thank you so much for all of your detail and explanation! I need to study
it yet though. But gotta' wait until tomorrow -- time crunch going on here
right now...

All,
I'm wondering -- there are enough contradictions now that maybe I should
just tell the vendor to "fix it". I have to take the box back to him
anyway, for an unrelated issue. But need to tend to an impending emergency
right now.

After a rather harrowing night, I'm back. Thank you for your patience.
I still have a couple of questions from yesterday:

1) Do all of these tools/utilities simply obtain their information from
the BIOS, (combined, of course,with data from their own databases); or do
they somehow run independent real-time analysis of the processor's activity
to determine the results that they provide? IOW, if there is indeed a
support issue related to the BIOS, as Dave discussed, does that mean that
all/any of the tools/utilities could get the "wrong answer", (based upon
the BIOS's view of the world)?

2) And a related question: I have gotten the impression, from both Mike
and that program's documentation, that CPU-Z should be pretty up-to-date;
and if it says the processor is a D 930, then it *IS* a D 930. (OR, back
to the previous question, does it all come back to the BIOS's view of the
world?)

Thanks again,
David

 

[hdrdtd]

Simply go to this link and download straight from Intel, their Intel
Processor ID Utility and run it.

http://www.intel.com/support/processors/tools/piu/sb/CS-014921.htm

You can't get any more accurate than using the utility that the manufacturer
of your CPU provides.

This is, other than physically removing the heat sink from the CPU and
reading the numbers printed right on the chip.

 

[Michael Hawes]

After a rather harrowing night, I'm back. Thank you for your patience.
I still have a couple of questions from yesterday:

1) Do all of these tools/utilities simply obtain their information from
the BIOS, (combined, of course,with data from their own databases); or do
they somehow run independent real-time analysis of the processor's
activity
to determine the results that they provide? IOW, if there is indeed a
support issue related to the BIOS, as Dave discussed, does that mean that
all/any of the tools/utilities could get the "wrong answer", (based upon
the BIOS's view of the world)?

2) And a related question: I have gotten the impression, from both Mike
and that program's documentation, that CPU-Z should be pretty up-to-date;
and if it says the processor is a D 930, then it *IS* a D 930. (OR, back
to the previous question, does it all come back to the BIOS's view of the
world?)

Thanks again,
David

I have just run CPU-Z on my system, which is overclocked and running at
slow settings under Speedstep. It is still (correctly) identified as AMD64
3700, so it looks like the info is taken from the CPU itself. As long as you
have the latest version of CPU-Z (v1.37), then you have a 930!

 

[Paul]

After a rather harrowing night, I'm back. Thank you for your patience.
I still have a couple of questions from yesterday:

1) Do all of these tools/utilities simply obtain their information from
the BIOS, (combined, of course,with data from their own databases); or do
they somehow run independent real-time analysis of the processor's activity
to determine the results that they provide? IOW, if there is indeed a
support issue related to the BIOS, as Dave discussed, does that mean that
all/any of the tools/utilities could get the "wrong answer", (based upon
the BIOS's view of the world)?

2) And a related question: I have gotten the impression, from both Mike
and that program's documentation, that CPU-Z should be pretty up-to-date;
and if it says the processor is a D 930, then it *IS* a D 930. (OR, back
to the previous question, does it all come back to the BIOS's view of the
world?)

Thanks again,
David

The Intel recommended method for identifying processors, is shown here.

http://developer.intel.com/design/xeon/applnots/241618.htm

It seems core frequency is measured by TSC (time stamp counter). The
TSC should be calibrated against the Real Time Clock (the digital watch
in the CMOS, in the Southbridge, that uses a little 32768Hz oscillator
just like a digital watch does). You can use TSC and RTC to determine
the frequency.

The Intel methods described in the above document, are intended for
software developers who know nothing about hardware, and still need
to know something about the processor.

The processor does have a register that reports "Maximum Frequency",
but that is the maximum for the whole processor family, and not your
particular processor. Sort of like your speedometer having 200MPH
at the end of the scale

The Intel utility can screw up, when the BIOS changes what the processor
returns. The default in most BIOS, is to Disable the following feature.
But you can check it anyway, by entering the BIOS and having a look.
Not that I think this is happening to you. The BIOS has this feature,
to work around a bug in some older OSes.

(Set "Max CPUID Value Limit:" to "Disabled")
"Dual Core Expected, But Not Reported"
http://www.intel.com/support/processors/tools/piu/sb/CS-020996.htm

For future reference, if you want to know something about the
features inside the processor, the Intel Architecture manuals are
here. 253665 through 253669 would be the ones to download.
Volume 3B has info on MSR (model specific registers), and MSR
are responsible for some cool features, like throttling, or
telling you the nominal bus frequency of the processor (200MHz
clock for FSB800 for example). This is the kind of info that the
utility writers need access to.

http://www.intel.com/design/pentium4/manuals/index_new.htm

As for CPUZ, it has been rigorously tested by overclocking
enthusiasts, and they report every little glitch to Franck Delattre.
Franck introduces new CPU info into the program, as soon as
new processors "leak into the wild". For example, even though
you cannot buy a Kentsfield processor at retail yet, CPUZ is
ready to identify it, as Kentsfield samples have been available
to the overclocking community for a couple months. The overclockers
are the ones who provide feedback to Franck.

Paul

 

[David]

Thank you, hdrdtd,
I have run the Intel utility and it indeed indicates a Pent D 930 -- so
this will clearly require some kind of explanation from the vendor.
Thanks again,
David

 

[David]

Thank you, Mike and Paul,

You both endorse CPU-Z pretty strongly, and your evidence is strong as
well. It's good enough for me. I re-ran it again this morning, and again,
Pent D 930. So, at the minimum, there needs to be explanation; but with
all the tests that have now been run, probably there needs to be a
processor change as well.

Paul, thanks for all the additional info. I will get into that now, ASAP.

Thanks again to both of you, and to everyone else that has given me
assistance on this issue! You have helped a lot!

Best regards,
David