Punctuation marks and quotation marks

[29erKilo]

We are having a discussion here in the office about
punctuation marks and quotation marks. Some say that the
punctuation marks always belong on the outside of the
quotation marks and others say the punctuation marks are
susposed to go inside of the quotation marks. Such
as "No, I wouldn't." and "No, I wouldn't".
Can anyone tell us which way is proper?

Thanks in advance and I hope I'm in the right group.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

This group is actually not designed to handle such questions, which relate
to style/grammar rather than to using Word.

However, despite the fact that the punctuation is not actually part of the
quotation, punctuation goes *inside* the quotation marks. It is an illogical
but widely accepted rule, as you will see if you start checking newspapers
or books.

You can check also style guides such as Chicago Manual of Style, or
Turabian, which is a simplified version of Chicago. You might find style
guides based on those manuals online.

DM

 

[Guest]

Dayo, there are exceptions to the rule. You're right in recommending those
resources to find the answers.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Though this is totally off-topic, I'd be interested to know what the major
exceptions are. I couldn't think of any.

Dayo

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It depends on whether you're American (and I use the term loosely) or
British (again used loosely). In the United States, commas and periods
always go inside quotation marks regardless of logic. In the UK, they go
inside or outside depending on whether or not they belong to the quoted
material. In all countries, colons, semicolons, and especially exclamation
points and question marks are placed inside or outside depending on whether
they belong to the quoted material or the whole sentence.

Although, as a USian, I put my commas and periods inside quotation marks to
be "correct," I often envy the UKians since their logic, though it results
in a sometimes unattractive appearance, is much better suited to talking
about computer stuff, where users might interpret the punctuation (or even
the quotation marks) as part of what they are supposed to type. This is the
reason you so often see "(without the quotation marks)" following a
quotation; this not only clarifies the quotation but relieves writers of the
necessity to put an punctuation inside or outside the closing quotes! But
often the only way to avoid the problem is to display quoted material on a
separate line, with no quotation marks.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

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[Guest]

Um, let's see. Okay, here's one:
DM asked, "Didn't you see that 'p and q'?"

Well, that's kind of complicated. Okay, here's another one:

What did she mean when she said, “The foot now wears a different shoe�

If youhad put the question mark inside the quotation marks, it would mean
that the person was asking a question about the shoe. But the part about the
shoe is a statement, not a question. The question is “What did she mean?†so
the question mark must go outside the quotation marks.

Got that right from the Chicago Manual website! It's hard to think on short
notice, but anyway, there you have some situations.

Claire

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Many thanks, for some reason it never even crossed my mind to look for a
Chicago Manual website, though I found all sorts of school's versions. And
came up with dashes after I had already posted the question....I almost
always only run into this with regard to periods and commas.

Highly impressed by Suzanne's magisterial summing of the general rules in
one paragraph, by the way.

Dayo

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

<taking a small, embarrassed bow> If you're not familiar with "A Handbook
for Scholars" by Mary-Claire van Leunen, you might find it instructive. The
author gives the most exhaustive exposition of this topic (U.S. only) I've
ever seen.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

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all may benefit.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Thanks much for the recommendation, I generally just refer to Chicago when
at my desk, but I'm not overly fond of actually using it. I'll check out
this one.

Dayo