Programs not working right after cloning

[Dennis Wilson]

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new Windows
XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and they're the only
two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me a backup of my
system which I can use to copy back over the original if the original
(the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted. I keep Partition 2 marked
"hidden" and therefore inacessible most of the time, though I will
occasionally use BootMagic to boot into Partition 2 to copy a deleted
file or something.

This backup method worked perfectly for me for all the years I've used
it. Until now. I recently built a new computer, and as usual I
installed Windows and then all my apps and then cloned the entire
"install" onto a new partition.

But after the cloning, many of my apps needed to have their
configurations redone, and those that require "activation" need to be
RE-activated. It's as if my apps can't find the registry. Yet the
drive letter assignments all seem right, and I believe the boot.ini
files are written correctly as well. The one on partition 1 reads:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 1"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 2"

The one on Partition 2 is the same, except the [boot loader] line reads:

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS

The problem was the same on both partitions, and the result was the same
when I wiped the drive and reinstalled everything from scratch.

Needless to say, I can't figure out the reason for this behavior. The
only difference between this machine and all the other PCs I've built is
that this is the first one that has SATA hard drives instead of IDE; the
only IDE device on this system is an HP DVD+/-R recorder. Can anyone
suggest what I might have overlooked, or what I can do to get my apps
able to read their config info again?

Thanks.

 

[Don Phillipson]

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new Windows
XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and they're the only
two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me a backup of my
system which I can use to copy back over the original if the original
(the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted.

The clone may indeed be helpful if a system file gets corrupted.
But all hard drives fail sooner or later, so if you lose this drive you
lose both sets of system files. It seems more prudent to store
your clone on a separate drive.

 

[Bill in Co.]

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new Windows
XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and they're the only
two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me a backup of my
system which I can use to copy back over the original if the original
(the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted. I keep Partition 2 marked
"hidden" and therefore inacessible most of the time, though I will
occasionally use BootMagic to boot into Partition 2 to copy a deleted
file or something.

This backup method worked perfectly for me for all the years I've used
it. Until now. I recently built a new computer, and as usual I
installed Windows and then all my apps and then cloned the entire
"install" onto a new partition.

But after the cloning, many of my apps needed to have their
configurations redone, and those that require "activation" need to be
RE-activated. It's as if my apps can't find the registry. Yet the
drive letter assignments all seem right, and I believe the boot.ini
files are written correctly as well. The one on partition 1 reads:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 1"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 2"

The one on Partition 2 is the same, except the [boot loader] line reads:

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS

The problem was the same on both partitions, and the result was the same
when I wiped the drive and reinstalled everything from scratch.

Needless to say, I can't figure out the reason for this behavior. The
only difference between this machine and all the other PCs I've built is
that this is the first one that has SATA hard drives instead of IDE; the
only IDE device on this system is an HP DVD+/-R recorder.

I expect that contributed to the problem, since the hardware IS indeed
different, and so will necessarily be some of the references to it in the
registry, for various programs.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new
Windows XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and
they're the only two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me
a backup of my system which I can use to copy back over the
original if the original (the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted. I
keep Partition 2 marked "hidden" and therefore inacessible most
of the time, though I will occasionally use BootMagic to boot into
Partition 2 to copy a deleted file or something.

This backup method worked perfectly for me for all the years
I've used it. Until now. I recently built a new computer, and as
usual I installed Windows and then all my apps and then cloned
the entire "install" onto a new partition.

But after the cloning, many of my apps needed to have their
configurations redone, and those that require "activation" need
to be RE-activated. It's as if my apps can't find the registry.
Yet the drive letter assignments all seem right, and I believe the
boot.ini files are written correctly as well. The one on partition
1 reads:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 1"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 2"

The one on Partition 2 is the same, except the [boot loader] line reads:

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS

The problem was the same on both partitions, and the result was the
same when I wiped the drive and reinstalled everything from scratch.

Needless to say, I can't figure out the reason for this behavior. The
only difference between this machine and all the other PCs I've built is
that this is the first one that has SATA hard drives instead of IDE; the
only IDE device on this system is an HP DVD+/-R recorder. Can
anyone suggest what I might have overlooked, or what I can do to get
my apps able to read their config info again?

Thanks.

I believe you ran into the problem that is caused by starting up the
clone for its first run with its "parent" OS still in view of the clone.
Usually, the clone resides on another HD, and before the clone is first run,
the "parent's" HD is disconnected to render it invisible (you could also
mark it "hidden", but you'd better "un-hide" it and mark it "active" before
trying to boot the "parent" again). The problem is that if the clone sees its
"parent" when it first runs, it gets confused about who it is, and it seems
to form random links with files in its "parent's" file structure rather than in
its own. It works fine until the day that you remove the "parent", and then
the clone seems to be missing files here and there. If the clone is instead
run for its first time in isolation, it forms its own "identity", and it can
there-
after run with its "parent" visible to it without a problem.

The solution now is to make another clone, but to start it up
FOR THE FIRST TIME with its "PARENT" NOT VISIBLE to it.
Or... don't start it up at all, keeping it for the day when you use it to
replace the "parent". During that time, you can still access its files to
update them, just don't start it up as an OS if it can see its "parent".

*TimDaniels*

 

[Bill in Co.]

Sorry, I might have misread this. I thought you were using a partition
copy with a different hardware setup.

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new Windows
XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and they're the only
two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me a backup of my
system which I can use to copy back over the original if the original
(the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted. I keep Partition 2 marked
"hidden" and therefore inacessible most of the time, though I will
occasionally use BootMagic to boot into Partition 2 to copy a deleted
file or something.

This backup method worked perfectly for me for all the years I've used
it. Until now. I recently built a new computer, and as usual I
installed Windows and then all my apps and then cloned the entire
"install" onto a new partition.

But after the cloning, many of my apps needed to have their
configurations redone, and those that require "activation" need to be
RE-activated. It's as if my apps can't find the registry. Yet the
drive letter assignments all seem right, and I believe the boot.ini
files are written correctly as well. The one on partition 1 reads:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 1"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 2"

The one on Partition 2 is the same, except the [boot loader] line reads:

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS

The problem was the same on both partitions, and the result was the same
when I wiped the drive and reinstalled everything from scratch.

Needless to say, I can't figure out the reason for this behavior. The
only difference between this machine and all the other PCs I've built is
that this is the first one that has SATA hard drives instead of IDE; the
only IDE device on this system is an HP DVD+/-R recorder.

I expect that contributed to the problem, since the hardware IS indeed
different, and so will necessarily be some of the references to it in the
registry, for various programs.

Can anyone
suggest what I might have overlooked, or what I can do to get my apps
able to read their config info again?

Thanks.

 

[wmohat]

I agree with Don. The absolute safest approach is to have two hard drives
that are exactly the same. (Same model#). One you run regularly, the other
one you plug in only to do periodic backups. (Those "removeable drive
drawers" are built for this purpose.)

Almost all new disk drives come with a CD-ROM of disk utilites, to copy
your old hard drive to your new one. (Seagate's version is "Disc Wizard".)
Unlike DriveCopy and others (which copy by file, and physically re-arrange
the sectors), Seagate's copy program will do a literal sector-by-sector copy
if the drives are of the same size. This runs much, MUCH faster than other
"cloning" techniques.... and it copies everything except the "Volume ID".
There are freeware utilities that will move the Volume ID over for you also.
If you do this, the two disks are literally IDENTICAL as far as any
application software can tell. I haven't seen ANY license manager or any
application program fail to run, when the backup drive is put in place of the
main disk.

I agree with Don; all hard disks fail sooner or later. Having a
separate drive that you physically remove is absolutely the safest way to go.
Your PC could get hit by lightning, and your (removed) backkup drive will
be completely safe.

---

 

[DennisQWilson]

   I agree with Don.  The absolute safest approach is to have two hard drives
that are exactly the same.  (Same model#).   One you run regularly, the other
one you plug in only to do periodic backups.   (Those "removeable drive
drawers" are built for this purpose.)

   Almost all new disk drives come with a CD-ROM of disk utilites, tocopy
your old hard drive to your new one.  (Seagate's version is "Disc Wizard".)  
Unlike DriveCopy and others (which copy by file, and physically re-arrange
the sectors), Seagate's copy program will do a literal sector-by-sector copy
if the drives are of the same size.  This runs much, MUCH faster than other
"cloning" techniques.... and it copies everything except the "Volume ID". 
There are freeware utilities that will move the Volume ID over for you also.  
 If you do this, the two disks are literally IDENTICAL as far as any
application software can tell.   I haven't seen ANY license manager or any
application program fail to run, when the backup drive is put in place ofthe
main disk.

    I agree with Don;  all hard disks fail sooner or later.  Having a
separate drive that you physically remove is absolutely the safest way togo.
  Your PC could get hit by lightning, and your (removed) backkup drive will
be completely safe.

Thanks, guys, but I *do* keep a backup on another, removable disk.
It's just that I also like keeping a clone on the same HDD
for the reasons stated above:l when Windows goes wonkly,
I can revert back to a clean-install state by copying the clone back
over the "main" partition. (Obviously my documents and settings
are in another place altogether.)

So my question remains: what is it about *this* install that is
causing this behavior, where in the past there was never any
problem whatsoever?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

So my question remains: what is it about *this* install that is
causing this behavior, where in the past there was never any
problem whatsoever?

You started up the clone with the "parent" visible to it.
It seemed to work fine, so you shut it down, assuming that
it was a good clone, not knowing that random file addresses
had actually become pointers to the original files in the "parent" .
Then, when you later removed it and installed it in its new
location, the "missing" files became apparent. Try making
another clone the correct way, and then try moving it as you
have this one.

*TimDaniels*

 

[DennisQWilson]

    You started up the clone with the "parent" visible to it.
It seemed to work fine, so you shut it down, assuming that
it was a good clone, not knowing that random file addresses
had actually become pointers to the original files in the "parent" .
Then, when you later removed it and installed it in its new
location, the "missing" files became apparent.  Try making
another clone the correct way, and then try moving it as you
have this one.

I'm always cautious never to let the two partitions be visible at the
same time, but I bet you're right -- your explanation absolutely nails
it. I think I slipped up this once, and that's what happened.

Many thanks.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

:


I'm always cautious never to let the two partitions be visible at the
same time, but I bet you're right -- your explanation absolutely nails
it. I think I slipped up this once, and that's what happened.

Many thanks.

Just to make clear for the other readers: It's OK for the "parent"
to be running and to see its clone at *any* time (such as just after
cloning). And it's *usually* OK for the clone to be running and to
see its "parent". The only time that the clone should NOT be able
to see its "parent" is during its very first startup after it has been made.
And even then, the files that become cross-pointed may be trivial and
important, and you may not notice the error later when the "parent"
is removed. It is this randomness which makes the problem so
unrecognized.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Anteaus]

Your problem arises because you are trying to multiboot two partitions using
the (same) boot.ini file on the (one) active partition. This is not a good
approach, as it leaves you with the second OS running from a non-active
partition. This gives rise to drive-letter issues, which is almost certainly
why some programs won't start.

Instead, install the bootloader from Ranish Partition Manager. This will
allow you to switch ACTIVE partition at bootup, hence the boot drive will
always be C: -and thus will always work properly.

You still need to modify the boot.ini file in partition 2 to reflect the
true partition-number of its bootloader. This way, each boot.ini needs only
ONE partition-entry though.


--------------------------
"This is a wonderful computer. It''s 20yrs old and absolutely reliable.
And, in all that time it''s only had four mobos, six processors, two cases,
seven OS''s ...."

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new Windows
XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and they're the only
two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me a backup of my
system which I can use to copy back over the original if the original
(the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted. I keep Partition 2 marked
"hidden" and therefore inacessible most of the time, though I will
occasionally use BootMagic to boot into Partition 2 to copy a deleted
file or something.

This backup method worked perfectly for me for all the years I've used
it. Until now. I recently built a new computer, and as usual I
installed Windows and then all my apps and then cloned the entire
"install" onto a new partition.

But after the cloning, many of my apps needed to have their
configurations redone, and those that require "activation" need to be
RE-activated. It's as if my apps can't find the registry. Yet the
drive letter assignments all seem right, and I believe the boot.ini
files are written correctly as well. The one on partition 1 reads:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 1"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 2"

The one on Partition 2 is the same, except the [boot loader] line reads:

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS

The problem was the same on both partitions, and the result was the same
when I wiped the drive and reinstalled everything from scratch.

Needless to say, I can't figure out the reason for this behavior. The
only difference between this machine and all the other PCs I've built is
that this is the first one that has SATA hard drives instead of IDE; the
only IDE device on this system is an HP DVD+/-R recorder. Can anyone
suggest what I might have overlooked, or what I can do to get my apps
able to read their config info again?

Thanks.

 

[John John (MVP)]

That is not really how it works, at all. There are no requirements at
all that Windows be run on an active partition, Windows will be happy
booting on a logical drive inside an extended partition if it has to, a
clone can do so and still retain its C: drive letter designation, the
primary active partition will simply be assigned another drive letter.
Drive letters assigned by the operating system (Mount Manager) are
stored in the registry at the MountedDevices key and are persistently
reassigned when Windows is booted. During the early stages of the boot
process there are no drive letters, the letters are only assigned after
the registry is read.

John

Your problem arises because you are trying to multiboot two partitions using
the (same) boot.ini file on the (one) active partition. This is not a good
approach, as it leaves you with the second OS running from a non-active
partition. This gives rise to drive-letter issues, which is almost certainly
why some programs won't start.

Instead, install the bootloader from Ranish Partition Manager. This will
allow you to switch ACTIVE partition at bootup, hence the boot drive will
always be C: -and thus will always work properly.

You still need to modify the boot.ini file in partition 2 to reflect the
true partition-number of its bootloader. This way, each boot.ini needs only
ONE partition-entry though.


--------------------------
"This is a wonderful computer. It''s 20yrs old and absolutely reliable.
And, in all that time it''s only had four mobos, six processors, two cases,
seven OS''s ...."


:

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new Windows
XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and they're the only
two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me a backup of my
system which I can use to copy back over the original if the original
(the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted. I keep Partition 2 marked
"hidden" and therefore inacessible most of the time, though I will
occasionally use BootMagic to boot into Partition 2 to copy a deleted
file or something.

This backup method worked perfectly for me for all the years I've used
it. Until now. I recently built a new computer, and as usual I
installed Windows and then all my apps and then cloned the entire
"install" onto a new partition.

But after the cloning, many of my apps needed to have their
configurations redone, and those that require "activation" need to be
RE-activated. It's as if my apps can't find the registry. Yet the
drive letter assignments all seem right, and I believe the boot.ini
files are written correctly as well. The one on partition 1 reads:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 1"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 2"

The one on Partition 2 is the same, except the [boot loader] line reads:

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS

The problem was the same on both partitions, and the result was the same
when I wiped the drive and reinstalled everything from scratch.

Needless to say, I can't figure out the reason for this behavior. The
only difference between this machine and all the other PCs I've built is
that this is the first one that has SATA hard drives instead of IDE; the
only IDE device on this system is an HP DVD+/-R recorder. Can anyone
suggest what I might have overlooked, or what I can do to get my apps
able to read their config info again?

Thanks.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Your problem arises because you are trying to multiboot two partitions
using the (same) boot.ini file on the (one) active partition. This is not a
good approach, as it leaves you with the second OS running from a
non-active partition.

This is the standard dual-boot scenario as set up by any Windows
installer.

This gives rise to drive-letter issues, which is almost certainly
why some programs won't start.

The only drive letter issues in such a scenario is that one OS
will call its partition "C:" when it's running, and the other OS
will call its partition "D:".when it's running. What's the problem?

Instead, install the bootloader from Ranish Partition Manager. This will
allow you to switch ACTIVE partition at bootup, hence the boot drive
will always be C: -and thus will always work properly.

The boot drive (the partition containing the OS) can be any
partition in the system - on any hard drive, and it can be a
Primary partition or a Logical Drive, i.e. a logical partition
within and Extended partition. What you may mean is the
"system partition" - the partition that contains the boot files,
boot.ini, ntldr, and ntdetect.com. But it is the OS which
contains the name of its own partition and nothing else.
So saying "the boot drive will always be C:" makes no sense.

You still need to modify the boot.ini file in partition 2 to reflect
the true partition-number of its bootloader. This way, each
boot.ini needs only ONE partition-entry though.

The "partition()" parameter in the boot.ini file refers to the
partition that contains the OS, not the boot loader - which
is called "ntldr" and which resides on the System partition.

I used Partition Magic to clone the partition containing my new Windows
XP installation. Both are on the same hard drive, and they're the only
two partitions on it. Basically, this just gives me a backup of my
system which I can use to copy back over the original if the original
(the one on Partion 1) gets corrupted. I keep Partition 2 marked
"hidden" and therefore inacessible most of the time, though I will
occasionally use BootMagic to boot into Partition 2 to copy a deleted
file or something.

This backup method worked perfectly for me for all the years I've used
it. Until now. I recently built a new computer, and as usual I
installed Windows and then all my apps and then cloned the entire
"install" onto a new partition.

But after the cloning, many of my apps needed to have their
configurations redone, and those that require "activation" need to be
RE-activated. It's as if my apps can't find the registry. Yet the
drive letter assignments all seem right, and I believe the boot.ini
files are written correctly as well. The one on partition 1 reads:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 1"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP 2"

The one on Partition 2 is the same, except the [boot loader] line reads:

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS

The problem was the same on both partitions, and the result was the same
when I wiped the drive and reinstalled everything from scratch.

Needless to say, I can't figure out the reason for this behavior. The
only difference between this machine and all the other PCs I've built is
that this is the first one that has SATA hard drives instead of IDE; the
only IDE device on this system is an HP DVD+/-R recorder. Can anyone
suggest what I might have overlooked, or what I can do to get my apps
able to read their config info again?

Thanks.