Problem with new P4 3.06 & win98se installation

[David Maynard]

Topical discussions, including topicallity, are one thing. Note
the word "personal" in the above. You started by implying that my
theories as to the OPs reasons were unwelcome because your message
was directed at one particular party. It was and is not; anything
posted to a newsgroup is for public consumption.

I was quite clear in what I said: that your personal dislike for Microsoft
wasn't relevant, nor on topic, just because you're looking for an
opportunity to rant and figured my post was a chance to get another stab in.

If you weren't so obsessed you'd have noticed he already HAS a WinXP system.

 

[127.0.0.1]

X-No-Archive: yes

Change it to the generic VGA driver in safe mode and then see if it will
boot into normal mode with that one.

Although, as I think back over the thread, you said windows98 WAS working
on it with the old processor and that the only thing different is the 3 gig
P4? I'd put that ndis fix in that kony found straight off. Just copy it
into \windows\system\, overwriting the one that's there, in safe mode.

Its not an NDIS problem - I copied it a couple of times and it still did the
same thing.

What happens on a fresh install is -

When everything is setup its going to boot into windows for the first time
it will start detecting
plug and play hardware. That is the point it will freeze.

It doesn't crash on the screen where it asks you to login.

As soon as I login it does its detection and crashes. Firstly it looks for a
plug and play monitor and asks for the drivers but
im fairly sure thats not whats crashing it - its something else as its
crashed during various stages of the PnP detection.

Ah. OK.

Now THAT might be an inducement to get a new motherboard, to use the
hyperthreading, but then you'd need to run XP for that too.

Anyone else running WIN98SE on a processor with Hyper Threading (3.06Ghz
+ ) - and does
it work (with HT disabled - I know the OS doesnt support it) ?

 

[Ralph Wade Phillips]

Howdy!

X-No-Archive: yes

Just upgraded my processor from a P4 1.7 -> P4 3.06ghz.

The problem is Windows 98 SE always locks up at the same point at the

start.

Due to your processor being > approximately 2.4GHz ... past that,
the timing loops in Win98 get to where they "divide by zero" causing it to
lock up.

I established that the system is stable by putting windows XP on an external
hard drive and running PRIME95 & MEMTEST. Both ran fine for hours with 0
errors.

My board is ABIT TH7IIRAID and although it doesnt offically support the 533
FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

The windows98 SE can boot fine into safe mode but when ever I go into normal
mode
the lock up always happens at start up.

There are no conflicts in the device manager.. and I even went so far as to
put a fresh install
of 98se on another hard disk and it does it on that as well. Ive removed all
PCI cards and it
still locked up... the only thing that works is putting the P4 1.7 back in.

May be win98se doesnt like P4 3.06ghz or it sees the HT feature and crashes
???

Doesn't like the 3.06GHz.

Its driving me nuts Ive been at this for 3 days now.

BTW: I looked into something regarding an "ndis.vxd" bug but I think this
bug is only on
win98 and not win98se - can anyone confirm its fixed on 98SE.

Anyway shed any light onto what I can do ??

Put the 1.7 back in.

Or dump 98SE.

RwP

 

[Baad Boy]

There's a lot of activity here and I'm not sure if someone else has already
posted your solution but here it is...sorry if I'm duplicating someone
else's post:

Here's some cut and paste from Microsoft's site:
SYMPTOMS
When you are installing Windows 95 or Windows 98 on a computer that has a
CPU that runs at 2.2 gigahertz (GHz) or faster, you may receive the
following error message:

While initializing device NDIS: Windows protection error
CAUSE
The timing calibration code in the Network Driver Interface Specification
(NDIS) driver causes a divide by zero if the CPU runs at 2.2 GHz or faster.
This problem does not occur with CPUs that run at 2.1 GHz or slower.


Go to this link on Microsoft's tech site:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108

Download the updated NDIS driver here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;243199

or here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;CNTACTMS

The update is only 217kb and I have it so let me know if you have problems
downloading and I can send it to ya. After loading the update you should be
good to load Win98.

Baad Boy

 

[Baad Boy]

....I meant, you can load (Win98 SE) after the update. (Win98) has a fix but
I could never find it--just a lot of sites claiming to have it for a sum of
money.

 

[Trent©]

Its not an NDIS problem - I copied it a couple of times and it still did the
same thing.

Exactly how...and where...did you put that file? Maybe yer not doing
it properly...or maybe you have the wrong version...or maybe you have
more than one.

Boot into a system disk...then do a search for all the files with that
name.


Have a nice week...

Trent

What do you call a smart blonde?
A golden retriever.

 

[David Maynard]

X-No-Archive: yes




Its not an NDIS problem - I copied it a couple of times and it still did the
same thing.

What happens on a fresh install is -

When everything is setup its going to boot into windows for the first time
it will start detecting
plug and play hardware. That is the point it will freeze.

It doesn't crash on the screen where it asks you to login.

As soon as I login it does its detection and crashes. Firstly it looks for a
plug and play monitor and asks for the drivers but
im fairly sure thats not whats crashing it - its something else as its
crashed during various stages of the PnP detection.




Anyone else running WIN98SE on a processor with Hyper Threading (3.06Ghz
+ ) - and does
it work (with HT disabled - I know the OS doesnt support it) ?

Ok. I did some looking around, and it ain't easy to find folks trying to
run Win98se on P4s that fast, but I did find a thread.

http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48476

Ok, so it isn't your board and it isn't even your chipset, but the dern
thing works at 3.06 gig in windows98se.

The things different from when your slower P4 worked are the speed of the
new one, hyperthreading, that you're overclocking the motherboard to run
it, and that you installed it (Don't laugh. What I mean is possible changes
to BIOS settings.).

Ok, that thread shows that the CPU speed alone shouldn't be a killer and it
suggests that neither is the hyperthreading, but I wonder just what state
it's in when the motherboard can neither enable nor disable it. Intel says
it 'must' be disabled in BIOS for win98se but that could simply mean 'not
enabled', if you see what I mean. I.E. If there is a setting it's either
one or the other so 'not one' is 'the other'. But you have 'nothing'. Let's
assume, for the moment, it defaults to the 'disabled' you need.

Next is the overclock. Put it at 100Mhz till the dern thing works, ok? Just
to get that possibility off the table. One it runs you can bump it back up
and worry about 'fixed', or not, PCI/AGP dividers.

Now to BIOS. I don't know what the settings used to be, or if they are the
same, but it seems suspicious that it hangs on installing things that
previously installed. What is "pnp O.S." set for? Reverse it (not pnp is
usually best). Do you have APIC enabled? DISABLE it. Frankly, I'm hoping
this is your problem because win9x (all of them) does NOT support APIC and
that will royally hose it up as windows will be unable to assign the IRQ.

Past that, do a general recheck of your BIOS settings to see if something
is different from when it worked but, as I mentioned, I'm betting on the APIC.

 

[kony]

...I meant, you can load (Win98 SE) after the update. (Win98) has a fix but
I could never find it--just a lot of sites claiming to have it for a sum of
money.

Not sure exactly what you're referring to but I may have it, if anyeone
wants it I'd need more info to ID it though, KB/Q # or filename, etc.

 

[Baad Boy]

I'm referring to the NDIS update. I have a 3.0C and had the same problems
when I tried to load Win98. I downloaded the update 2 months or so ago but
I use win2K now.

 

[kony]

I'm referring to the NDIS update. I have a 3.0C and had the same problems
when I tried to load Win98. I downloaded the update 2 months or so ago but
I use win2K now.

There's more than one NDIS update, basically with different version of
NDIS.VXD. Previously in this thread I linked to one of them,
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=243199 , which includes NDIS 4.10.2224.

Then there's the NDIS from WinME, 4.90.3000.

If you had some other version of NDIS.VXD in mind, I'd need to know the KB
or Q #, or filename, as I mentioned previously.

 

[Baad Boy]

Dude, don't make this complicated, just read what I typed about Windows 98.
Of course there's several versions of NDIS updates. ...But,
--The guy posted that he has a problem with Win98SE--
There's no need for an update to the WinME NDIS at all so why even mention
it. And let the guy browse over to Bill Gates' site and do his own
downloading, no need for anyone to be a middleman.
I don't need the file so you don't need anything from me.

 

[127.0.0.1]

X-No-Archive: yes

Ok. I did some looking around, and it ain't easy to find folks trying to
run Win98se on P4s that fast, but I did find a thread.

http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48476

Ok, so it isn't your board and it isn't even your chipset, but the dern
thing works at 3.06 gig in windows98se.

The things different from when your slower P4 worked are the speed of the
new one, hyperthreading, that you're overclocking the motherboard to run
it, and that you installed it (Don't laugh. What I mean is possible changes
to BIOS settings.).

Ok, that thread shows that the CPU speed alone shouldn't be a killer and it
suggests that neither is the hyperthreading, but I wonder just what state
it's in when the motherboard can neither enable nor disable it. Intel says
it 'must' be disabled in BIOS for win98se but that could simply mean 'not
enabled', if you see what I mean. I.E. If there is a setting it's either
one or the other so 'not one' is 'the other'. But you have 'nothing'. Let's
assume, for the moment, it defaults to the 'disabled' you need.

Next is the overclock. Put it at 100Mhz till the dern thing works, ok? Just
to get that possibility off the table. One it runs you can bump it back up
and worry about 'fixed', or not, PCI/AGP dividers.

Now to BIOS. I don't know what the settings used to be, or if they are the
same, but it seems suspicious that it hangs on installing things that
previously installed. What is "pnp O.S." set for? Reverse it (not pnp is
usually best). Do you have APIC enabled? DISABLE it. Frankly, I'm hoping
this is your problem because win9x (all of them) does NOT support APIC and
that will royally hose it up as windows will be unable to assign the IRQ.

Past that, do a general recheck of your BIOS settings to see if something
is different from when it worked but, as I mentioned, I'm betting on the

APIC.

Thanks for your help - I tried all the above serveral times and nothing
worked.

I can only assume its a BIOS bug now. Disabling ACPI IRQ steering works but
then I get a pseudo
safe mode windows which is no good.

I also though it might have been APIC but it didnt solve it.

Thanks anyway Ill just stick with XP for now.

 

[kony]

Dude, don't make this complicated, just read what I typed about Windows 98.
Of course there's several versions of NDIS updates. ...But,
--The guy posted that he has a problem with Win98SE--
There's no need for an update to the WinME NDIS at all so why even mention
it. And let the guy browse over to Bill Gates' site and do his own
downloading, no need for anyone to be a middleman.
I don't need the file so you don't need anything from me.

You were the one that mentioned another patch which was only available
from pay 'sites. I was trying to be helpful by determining if this was
really true and if so, I may be able to provide it.

The subtopic was NDIS, which isn't complicated at all, merely trying
different versions of it. If it worries you to try WinME files or you
don't see the significance of it simply being a more up to date version of
Win9x, then don't try them.