Problem with new P4 3.06 & win98se installation

1

127.0.0.1

X-No-Archive: yes

Just upgraded my processor from a P4 1.7 -> P4 3.06ghz.

The problem is Windows 98 SE always locks up at the same point at the start.

I established that the system is stable by putting windows XP on an external
hard drive and running PRIME95 & MEMTEST. Both ran fine for hours with 0
errors.

My board is ABIT TH7IIRAID and although it doesnt offically support the 533
FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

The windows98 SE can boot fine into safe mode but when ever I go into normal
mode
the lock up always happens at start up.

There are no conflicts in the device manager.. and I even went so far as to
put a fresh install
of 98se on another hard disk and it does it on that as well. Ive removed all
PCI cards and it
still locked up... the only thing that works is putting the P4 1.7 back in.

May be win98se doesnt like P4 3.06ghz or it sees the HT feature and crashes
???

Its driving me nuts Ive been at this for 3 days now.

BTW: I looked into something regarding an "ndis.vxd" bug but I think this
bug is only on
win98 and not win98se - can anyone confirm its fixed on 98SE.

Anyway shed any light onto what I can do ??
 
M

~misfit~

127.0.0.1 said:
X-No-Archive: yes

Just upgraded my processor from a P4 1.7 -> P4 3.06ghz.

The problem is Windows 98 SE always locks up at the same point at the
start.

I established that the system is stable by putting windows XP on an
external hard drive and running PRIME95 & MEMTEST. Both ran fine for
hours with 0 errors.

My board is ABIT TH7IIRAID and although it doesnt offically support
the 533 FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

The windows98 SE can boot fine into safe mode but when ever I go into
normal mode
the lock up always happens at start up.

There are no conflicts in the device manager.. and I even went so far
as to put a fresh install
of 98se on another hard disk and it does it on that as well. Ive
removed all PCI cards and it
still locked up... the only thing that works is putting the P4 1.7
back in.

May be win98se doesnt like P4 3.06ghz or it sees the HT feature and
crashes ???

Its driving me nuts Ive been at this for 3 days now.

BTW: I looked into something regarding an "ndis.vxd" bug but I think
this bug is only on
win98 and not win98se - can anyone confirm its fixed on 98SE.

Anyway shed any light onto what I can do ??
Click to expand...

Two things I can think of:

1, Turn off HT in BIOS, 98 isn't HT-capable. If it isn't turned on in BIOS
(or doesn't have the option) then I don't know if HT can be 'seen' by the
OS.

2, Is your PCI bus running out-of-spec? It could be causing problems with
your PCI/IDE bus and causing crashes. If the board is only specced for
100Mhz and there is no divider for 1/4 for the PCI bus then at 133 it's
running at 44Mhz instead of 33Mhz. A lot of HDDs (particularly Seagates IME)
don't like the PCI bus that far out of spec.
 
1

127.0.0.1

X-No-Archive: yes

~misfit~ said:
Two things I can think of:

1, Turn off HT in BIOS, 98 isn't HT-capable. If it isn't turned on in BIOS
(or doesn't have the option) then I don't know if HT can be 'seen' by the
OS.

2, Is your PCI bus running out-of-spec? It could be causing problems with
your PCI/IDE bus and causing crashes. If the board is only specced for
100Mhz and there is no divider for 1/4 for the PCI bus then at 133 it's
running at 44Mhz instead of 33Mhz. A lot of HDDs (particularly Seagates IME)
don't like the PCI bus that far out of spec.
--
Click to expand...


Hi,

I dont have any HT options in the BIOS - the motherboard is too old.
So I dont think the OS can see it.. although programs do know the processors
has HT enabled.

My motherboard has 2/4, 1/3 and FIX dividers for PCI and AGP. Its selected
correctly... if it was
wrong I think XP would have problems also - but it doesnt.

I didnt notice that XP refuses to shut down properly but otherwise
everything operating normally in XP.
It strange how Win98 works in safe mode....

Anyone else have any ideas ?
 
D

daytripper

X-No-Archive: yes

Just upgraded my processor from a P4 1.7 -> P4 3.06ghz.

The problem is Windows 98 SE always locks up at the same point at the start.

I established that the system is stable by putting windows XP on an external
hard drive and running PRIME95 & MEMTEST. Both ran fine for hours with 0
errors.

My board is ABIT TH7IIRAID and although it doesnt offically support the 533
FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

The windows98 SE can boot fine into safe mode but when ever I go into normal
mode
the lock up always happens at start up.

There are no conflicts in the device manager.. and I even went so far as to
put a fresh install
of 98se on another hard disk and it does it on that as well. Ive removed all
PCI cards and it
still locked up... the only thing that works is putting the P4 1.7 back in.

May be win98se doesnt like P4 3.06ghz or it sees the HT feature and crashes
???

Its driving me nuts Ive been at this for 3 days now.

BTW: I looked into something regarding an "ndis.vxd" bug but I think this
bug is only on
win98 and not win98se - can anyone confirm its fixed on 98SE.

Anyway shed any light onto what I can do ??
Click to expand...


How much main memory do you have installed on this system?
More than 512MB, perhaps?

/daytripper (wait for it ;-)
 
O

Onideus Mad Hatter

X-No-Archive: yes




Hi,

I dont have any HT options in the BIOS - the motherboard is too old.
So I dont think the OS can see it.. although programs do know the processors
has HT enabled.

My motherboard has 2/4, 1/3 and FIX dividers for PCI and AGP. Its selected
correctly... if it was
wrong I think XP would have problems also - but it doesnt.

I didnt notice that XP refuses to shut down properly but otherwise
everything operating normally in XP.
It strange how Win98 works in safe mode....

Anyone else have any ideas ?
Click to expand...

If it works in safe mode then it most likely some sort of resource conflict. You should try and see
if you can't find out what's conflicting or just reinstall Win98 on top of itself. 8shrugs*
 
K

kony

X-No-Archive: yes

Just upgraded my processor from a P4 1.7 -> P4 3.06ghz.

The problem is Windows 98 SE always locks up at the same point at the start.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY when does it lock up? Precision here might be critical.
Does it make it to the desktop?
Have you tried creating a bootlog (F8 menu selection after the POST
screen).

I established that the system is stable by putting windows XP on an external
hard drive and running PRIME95 & MEMTEST. Both ran fine for hours with 0
errors.

My board is ABIT TH7IIRAID and although it doesnt offically support the 533
FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.
Click to expand...

.... so it's overclocked. First thing to do is obvious enough,
UN-overclock it. Reduce the FSB speed to spec for the motherboard, that
is, 100MHz, and see if it still crashes. Nevermind that the CPU will be
underclocked for the moment, we need to establish whether the FSB o'c is
an issue. Performance may be relatively poor with the underclocked memory
bus anyway, you might consider a newer motherboard & memory.
The windows98 SE can boot fine into safe mode but when ever I go into normal
mode
the lock up always happens at start up.
Click to expand...

You can also use the Win98SE boot menu to selectively load certain
drivers, or Device Manager to temporarily disable some devices, and/or
pull cards out temporarily.

There are no conflicts in the device manager.. and I even went so far as to
put a fresh install
of 98se on another hard disk and it does it on that as well. Ive removed all
PCI cards and it
still locked up... the only thing that works is putting the P4 1.7 back in.
Click to expand...
May be win98se doesnt like P4 3.06ghz or it sees the HT feature and crashes
???
Click to expand...

Never heard of that happening before, seems unlikely.
Its driving me nuts Ive been at this for 3 days now.

BTW: I looked into something regarding an "ndis.vxd" bug but I think this
bug is only on
win98 and not win98se - can anyone confirm its fixed on 98SE.
Click to expand...

Well there's a KB article and patch for SE but in my experience that
doesn't generally lock a system on boot, but if it did that (as well as
many problems) should show up in the bootlog.
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=243199
 
D

DaveW

You know, of course, that Win 98SE, cannot use more than 512MB of RAM or the
systems freezes/crashes.
 
P

Pen

That is incorrect. 9X only requires an entry in the vcache section of
system.ini to limit vcache to no more than 512.
 
M

Michael Brown

127.0.0.1 said:
Just upgraded my processor from a P4 1.7 -> P4 3.06ghz.

The problem is Windows 98 SE always locks up at the same point at the
start.

I established that the system is stable by putting windows XP on an
external hard drive and running PRIME95 & MEMTEST. Both ran fine for
hours with 0 errors.

My board is ABIT TH7IIRAID and although it doesnt offically support
the 533 FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

The windows98 SE can boot fine into safe mode but when ever I go into
normal mode
the lock up always happens at start up.
Click to expand...

98SE and earlier have issues with CPUs over ~2.1GHz due to overflow
problems. See
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108
I've had a friend who tried to get the patch out of MS without paying for
support, but it seems to be impossible to do. Fortunately, someone who HAS
got it out of them has been kind enough to post it on the web:
http://www.sjordan.com/ndis_fix.html

[...]
 
D

David Maynard

D

David Maynard

DaveW said:
You know, of course, that Win 98SE, cannot use more than 512MB of RAM or the
systems freezes/crashes.
Click to expand...

Well, no. You limit the vcache size in system.ini and then it's fine.
 
M

Michael Brown

David said:
Michael Brown wrote:
[...]
98SE and earlier have issues with CPUs over ~2.1GHz due to overflow
problems. See
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108
I've had a friend who tried to get the patch out of MS without
paying for support, but it seems to be impossible to do.
Fortunately, someone who HAS got it out of them has been kind enough
to post it on the web: http://www.sjordan.com/ndis_fix.html
Click to expand...

I got "access forbidden" on that server.
Click to expand...

Wierd ... rechecked just now and it works fine. Another place to try is
http://home.planet.nl/~dorp0043/2002.htm#fix
 
D

David Maynard

Michael said:
David said:
Michael Brown wrote:

[...]
98SE and earlier have issues with CPUs over ~2.1GHz due to overflow
problems. See
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108
I've had a friend who tried to get the patch out of MS without
paying for support, but it seems to be impossible to do.
Fortunately, someone who HAS got it out of them has been kind enough
to post it on the web: http://www.sjordan.com/ndis_fix.html
Click to expand...

I got "access forbidden" on that server.
Click to expand...


Wierd ... rechecked just now and it works fine.
Click to expand...

Could be a domain restriction because it's definitely coming from his server.

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /ndis_fix.html on this server.

Apache/1.3.29 Server at www.sjordan.com Port 80

I also tried just http://www.sjordan.com/ and got the same thing.
Another place to try is
http://home.planet.nl/~dorp0043/2002.htm#fix
Click to expand...

Thanks. I was able to get it from there.

 
K

kony

Michael Brown wrote:
[...]
98SE and earlier have issues with CPUs over ~2.1GHz due to overflow
problems. See
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108
Click to expand...

Note: It doesn't mention 98SE on this page, but it appears that SE suffers
from the same problem:
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread/t-17663.html
Looks like pulling NDIS.VXD from a WinME install (or other sources ;) ) will
do the trick as well.

[...]
Click to expand...

The MS KB article specifically mentions the NDIS.VXD file for the patch is
to be v 4.10.2000 or later version.

Win98SE (at least this particular original Win98SE CD I have here) has
NDIS.VXD v4.10.2222, which setup extracts from "NET9.CAB". It is running
on a system with a > 2.1GHz CPU without this issue being apparent.
 
D

David Maynard

kony said:
Michael Brown wrote:
[...]
98SE and earlier have issues with CPUs over ~2.1GHz due to overflow
problems. See
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108
Click to expand...

Note: It doesn't mention 98SE on this page, but it appears that SE suffers
Click to expand...
from the same problem:
Click to expand...
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread/t-17663.html
Looks like pulling NDIS.VXD from a WinME install (or other sources ;) ) will
do the trick as well.

[...]
Click to expand...


The MS KB article specifically mentions the NDIS.VXD file for the patch is
to be v 4.10.2000 or later version.

Win98SE (at least this particular original Win98SE CD I have here) has
NDIS.VXD v4.10.2222, which setup extracts from "NET9.CAB". It is running
on a system with a > 2.1GHz CPU without this issue being apparent.
Click to expand...

Yes. My Win98SE installations have that version too, although none are on
machines that fast.
 
M

Michael Brown

kony said:
Michael Brown wrote:
[...]
98SE and earlier have issues with CPUs over ~2.1GHz due to overflow
problems. See
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108
Click to expand...

Note: It doesn't mention 98SE on this page, but it appears that SE
suffers from the same problem:
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread/t-17663.html
Looks like pulling NDIS.VXD from a WinME install (or other sources
;) ) will do the trick as well.

[...]
Click to expand...

The MS KB article specifically mentions the NDIS.VXD file for the
patch is to be v 4.10.2000 or later version.

Win98SE (at least this particular original Win98SE CD I have here) has
NDIS.VXD v4.10.2222, which setup extracts from "NET9.CAB". It is
running on a system with a > 2.1GHz CPU without this issue being
apparent.
Click to expand...

Hmm, should have checked my 98SE disks before posting :| My 98SE has the
same version (2222) and it gave the NDIS error on boot when I was running my
CPUs at 2.2GHz (though it's Prime95 stable at these speeds). Haven't tried
it since dropping dropping down to 2GHz (allowed me to run at much lower
voltages, and hence with less noise), though it might just be 98 not liking
the dual-Barton setup :)
 

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