Problem "Un-cloning" HD

[Dave]

Wanted to replace my full primary HD with a larger one. Cloned a new drive
as an external, replaced original internal with the new drive. Had some
problems (more on this later), decided to go back and reclone newer drive.

Removed new cloned drive, replace with original.

Now when I boot with the original, I get, after a VERY long pause, "Primary
drive not found - Strike F1 to continue, F2 to run Setup Utility"

If I hit F1, the system continues to load just fine. Explorer shows
everything as it should be, Device Manager shows no problems, this device
working properly, etc., etc.

The original HD was jumpered as cable select. Also tried jumpering as
master (only). No joy.

FWIW - originally, I had a second internal HD which I have left out until
this present situation is straightened out.

Any suggestions as to what's going on would be appreciated.

Dave
WinXP SP2 Dell 3000 EIDE (internal HD currently on ribbon end connector
position)

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Wanted to replace my full primary HD with a larger one. Cloned a new
drive as an external, replaced original internal with the new drive. Had
some problems (more on this later), decided to go back and reclone newer
drive.

Removed new cloned drive, replace with original.

Now when I boot with the original, I get, after a VERY long pause,
"Primary drive not found - Strike F1 to continue, F2 to run Setup Utility"

If I hit F1, the system continues to load just fine. Explorer shows
everything as it should be, Device Manager shows no problems, this device
working properly, etc., etc.

The original HD was jumpered as cable select. Also tried jumpering as
master (only). No joy.

FWIW - originally, I had a second internal HD which I have left out until
this present situation is straightened out.

Any suggestions as to what's going on would be appreciated.

Dave
WinXP SP2 Dell 3000 EIDE (internal HD currently on ribbon end connector
position)

This is most likely a hardware question, not a Windows question: Does
the BIOS recognise the disk at boot time? If it does not, repost in a
hardware newsgroup.

 

[Dave]

This is most likely a hardware question, not a Windows question: Does
the BIOS recognise the disk at boot time? If it does not, repost in a
hardware newsgroup.

I don't think it does. I'll try a hardware group
Thanks much
Dave

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Wanted to replace my full primary HD with a larger one.
Cloned a new drive as an external, replaced original internal
with the new drive. Had some problems (more on this later),
decided to go back and reclone newer drive.

Removed new cloned drive, replace with original.

Now when I boot with the original, I get, after a VERY long
pause, "Primary drive not found - Strike F1 to continue,
F2 to run Setup Utility"

If I hit F1, the system continues to load just fine. Explorer
shows everything as it should be, Device Manager shows
no problems, this device working properly, etc., etc.

The original HD was jumpered as cable select. Also tried
jumpering as master (only). No joy.

FWIW - originally, I had a second internal HD which I
have left out until this present situation is straightened out.

Any suggestions as to what's going on would be appreciated.

Dave
WinXP SP2 Dell 3000 EIDE (internal HD currently on
ribbon end connector position)

When you cloned the internal HD to the external HD, did
you also clone the MBR, and did you clone the MBR back?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Mick Murphy]

Anything to do with hit F1 to continue is in the set up of the BIOS.
If you have altered anything in Bios, write them down.
You can set it back to defaults in bios.
Also, it has been recommended to pull coin battery, reseat battery, reset
Bios.

 

[Haz]

Tim -
Don't know what you mean by MBR?
Dave (on another comp)

 

[Haz]

OK - I've been doing my homework on MBR. My original HD crashed when new, I
cleaned it and reinstalled everything. That probably means there is no MBR
on my original drive, therefore there isn't one on the cloned drive.

I can't even get my original HD to boot now, so I'm going to install a new
WinXP on an extra drive so I can work on the MBR thing.
Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

 

[Twayne]

OK - I've been doing my homework on MBR. My original HD crashed when

new, I cleaned it and reinstalled everything. That probably means
there is no MBR on my original drive, therefore there isn't one on
the cloned drive.
I can't even get my original HD to boot now, so I'm going to install
a new WinXP on an extra drive so I can work on the MBR thing.
Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

I can't make out exactly what you mean there. MBR = Master Boot Record.
A computer can not boot without the MBR on the disk or if it's corrupted
or not right for the OS being used.
If you had a working, bootable disk, it has an MBR.
If you did an actual "clone" and not something else, the MBR went
with it.

One drive: usually use CS. Check mfg to see what jumper should be set
to.
If 2, one usually (not always) has to be set to Master, the other to
Slave. Hitachi for one is different; you have to check the drive mfg
for the jumper settings if it's not working and you don't know them.
Often the jumper settings are also on the back of the drive on the
label.
Then of course the BIOS must be set to recognize them as drive 0, or
0 and 1, etc., and on the correct IDE connector/cable.

Not sure what else to tell you right now.

HTH

 

[Haz]

Thanks -
Original HD was a 40G Hitachi, booted just fine as a primary, jumpers set to
CS. Had a second HD for backup. (Currently I'm leaving the second one out
just because of all this fooling around.) Put new WD320G as USB external
and cloned. If the Hitachi had an OK MBR, then I guess the WD320 does.

I put the Hitachi back internal (set as CS) as the only HD (on new IDE
cable, end connector). System won't boot. Pretty sure BIOS is right,
especially as to boot sequence and only one drive.

That's where I am now. Stumped !!!

Dave

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Wanted to replace my full primary HD with a larger one.
Cloned a new drive as an external...

OK, back to basics.

1) What utility did you use to make the "clone".

2) Some utilities give you the option of copying the
MBR or not. Which kind do you have?

3) Did you tell it to copy a partition or all partitions,
i.e. the entire disk? (Some people, knowing that they
have just one partition, just copy the partition.)

4) Did it make an actual clone (a byte-for-byte copy),
or did it make an image file? (If it offered you the
option of compressing the result, it was an image file.)

5) Was the "external drive" a USB/Firewire drive or an
eSATA drive?

In short, you haven't told us enough to be able to really
help with a diagnosis.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Dave]

Thank you Tim - I'll do my best
I'm back on my own comp again - I'll tell you how in a minute (not good)-

1) Data Lifeguard Tools CD which came with new Western Digital 320 G HD
2) I do not remember seeing that as an option
3) Copy the whole disk (which only shows 1 partition) Again, I don't recall
seeing that as a option
4) Good question - they never use the word 'clone' - just 'copy' (can't get
at the exact language right now) Don't recall seeing the word 'image'
either.
5) External drive was USB - this is an EIDE setup, all jumpers in Cable
Select

Now - the present status:

The system will come up one way, and one way only (and believe me I have
tried a lot of combinations):
1) Original HD (Hitachi 40G) as only internal - system recognizes it as
Local Disk (D 37.25 GB NTFS This is the disk which I originally cloned
FROM
2) Cloned HD (WD320G) as external, Computer Management recognizes it as
DRV4_VOL1 (C, 298.09 GB NTFS.

I hadn't noticed the "VOL 1" notation on the 320G drive. Is that a clue to
what you are asking?

Anyway, I don't know what else to add, but I would greatly appreciate your
comments.

Dave

 

[Dave]

Tim - this is a PS to my last message, I'm back into the WD Lifeguard
Tools -

1)They refer to this as a "Drive-to-Drive Data Copy Tool"
2) The options are a)Drive-to-Drive Data Copy, b) Reformat Partitions and
c)Partition Unallocated Space
3) Selecting a), the only options are Source Path and Destination Path

Forgot to mention, on boot, the system is clearly booting on the external
USB drive.

FWIW
Dave

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I took a look at the .pdf for the User Manual for Data Lifeguard Tools
on the Western Digital website, and it (the manual) is terrible. It refers
to copying a bootable hard drive, then it describes folder-to-folder
copying. Since the purpose of providing it is presumably to clone an
entire hard drive to another hard drive, it must be making a clone.
What does the new HD look like in the old HD's Disk Management
utility? Does the used space on the new HD equal the used space
on the old HD? That "DRV4_VOL1" is mysterious. If it refers to a
dynamic drive, I'm at a loss....

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Tim - this is a PS to my last message, I'm back into the
WD Lifeguard Tools -

1)They refer to this as a "Drive-to-Drive Data Copy Tool"
2) The options are
a)Drive-to-Drive Data Copy,
b) Reformat Partitions and c)Partition Unallocated Space
3) Selecting
a), the only options are Source Path and Destination Path

Forgot to mention, on boot, the system is clearly booting on the
external USB drive.

FWIW
Dave

It sounds like you're letting the new clone "see" its "parent" OS
when it boots for the first time, i.e. they're both connected
during that initial boot of the clone. That may not be the cause
of your current problem, but that is a no-no. Only after the
clone has booted up successfully for its first run should the
clone be allowed to see its "parent".

As for ntldr, is it indeed there? It should be at X:\, where
"X" is the letter name of the clone's partition, i.e. just below
the root of the file system. Beside it should be boot.ini and
ntdetect.com. When you look at the clone with the old OS,
are those files there?

Is there indeed only one Primary partition on the clone's HD?
Is it marked "active" if there are other partitions? (You can
see this stuff using Disk Management. Get to Disk Management
by rt-clicking My Computer/select Manage/click Disk Management
in the Storage folder.)

*TimDaniels*

 

[Dave]

Tim -

What does the new HD look like in the old HD's Disk Management utility?

As I noted before, Disk Management shows the Cloned HD (WD320G) as DRV4_VOL1
(C, 298.09 GB NTFS.
Notice it did come out as drive C: - I thought that was progress

Does the used space on the new HD equal the used space on the old HD?

Using Computer Management routine, new HD is ~298.09G capacity, ~275.45GB
Free Space = 22.64G used
Old HD capacity 37.25GB, Free Space 16.17 GB = 21.08GB
That's pretty close, especially for WD

That "DRV4_VOL1" is mysterious

I have no idea where that came from - was hoping you might tell me. FWIW, I
did quite a bit of inquiring about cloning on MS Newsgroups, and was told by
several that the WD routine was what I wanted and worked well for several
commenter's. Go figure!

I'm wondering if I should find some more specific cloning software and start
over. The only problem with that is that my comp will not boot on my old
drive for some reason. Assuming that means it is corrupt somehow, I don't
want to clone a corrupt drive.

I don't think my BIOS is helping. The only drive option I have for HD's is
the C: drive, and that's exactly what it's doing - booting on the C:, which
just happens to be the external cloned drive. I don't have any way to
change the BIOS to look directly for the D: drive. Also, there is no
default option on the BIOS. I have checked and found an update on the BIOS,
but Dell refers to it as 'optional' I believe the word was. I hate to start
that, since it just another change which I shouldn't need at least to get
back to where I was.

What to do?
Dave

 

[Dave]

It sounds like you're letting the new clone "see" its "parent" OS
when it boots for the first time, i.e. they're both connected
during that initial boot of the clone. That may not be the cause
of your current problem, but that is a no-no. Only after the
clone has booted up successfully for its first run should the
clone be allowed to see its "parent".

After I finished cloning originally, I moved the new drive to internal, and
disconnected the external. It booted up OK, but I got error messages that
the System Restore feature was corrupt. It was all down hill after that.

As for ntldr, is it indeed there? It should be at X:\, where
"X" is the letter name of the clone's partition, i.e. just below
the root of the file system. Beside it should be boot.ini and
ntdetect.com. When you look at the clone with the old OS,
are those files there?

There is a boot.ini in the cloned drive, and a ntdetect.com
There is also an ntldr (I have no idea what that is)
The X and partition discussion I don't understand. I'm not sure yet if I
have more than one partition, everything I click on shows only one.

Is there indeed only one Primary partition on the clone's HD?
Is it marked "active" if there are other partitions? (You can
see this stuff using Disk Management. Get to Disk Management
by rt-clicking My Computer/select Manage/click Disk Management
in the Storage folder.)

The only partition that shows there is marked ' healthy (active)'
The original HD is marked 'healthy (system)'
[/QUOTE]

 

[Timothy Daniels]

After I finished cloning originally, I moved the new drive to internal,
and disconnected the external. It booted up OK, but I got error
messages that the System Restore feature was corrupt. It was all
down hill after that.

It sounds like you're saying that you disconnected the old internal
HD, put the new HD in its place, then disconnected the USB cable
that went to the new HD's external housing, then booted. If that is
true, the procedure is OK.

There is a boot.ini in the cloned drive, and a ntdetect.com
There is also an ntldr (I have no idea what that is)

The name of the loader is "ntldr", the file that couldn't be found
originally. Since it where it should be in the partition, something
is saying that the directions to it were wrong. The "something"
could be the partition's partition's boot record. Try running
the XP CD with the new HD connected, and using the command
prompt in the Recovery Console, run "fixboot". Run "fixmbr"
while you're at it just in case. Then see if it boots up as the sole
HD.

The X and partition discussion I don't understand. I'm not sure
yet if I have more than one partition, everything I click on shows
only one.

The "X" is whatever letter name that the running OS assigns to
the clone's partition. Apparently, both the old and the new HDs
each have only one partition.

The only partition that shows there is marked ' healthy (active)'
The original HD is marked 'healthy (system)'

That is all normal. You booted this time from the old HD, so
the boot files are there - that what "system" refers to. The
cloned partition on the new HD is marked "active" so that
control would be passed to it by the BIOS if that HD had
boot priority.

If "fixboot" and "fixmbr" don't solve the problem, Dave, I'm
afraid that I'm all out of ideas. Let us know what happens.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I'm wondering if I should find some more specific cloning software
and start over.

I prefer Casper, and they make a free trial copy available for 30 days,
but the free version will not fill the entire space of the new HD - it will
make the new partition the same size as the old one. If that is OK,
here is the url: http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/ .
True Image also has a free trial version available for 15 days, and
True Image's one limitation - that it will only clone entire disks, not
single partitions - it not a limitation for you. You can download the
free trial copies from here:
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/download/trueimage/

The only problem with that is that my comp will not boot on my old drive for
some reason. Assuming that means it is corrupt somehow,
I don't want to clone a corrupt drive.

What were you using, then, to look at the contents of the new HD?

I don't think my BIOS is helping. The only drive option I have for
HD's is the C: drive, and that's exactly what it's doing - booting on
the C:, which just happens to be the external cloned drive. I don't
have any way to change the BIOS to look directly for the D: drive.
Also, there is no default option on the BIOS. I have checked and
found an update on the BIOS, but Dell refers to it as 'optional' I
believe the word was. I hate to start that, since it just another change
which I shouldn't need at least to get back to where I was.

It's time to describe your PC. How many internal HDs can the
motherboard support? Are they PATA or SATA? What is the
model of the PC?

*TimDaniels*

 

[David]

Tim -
Forgive the indiscretion, but I wanted to thank you specifically for hanging
with me on this cloning mess. The last couple of items did not work, so I
bit the bullet, cleaned the drive, and reinstalled the operating system.
Had 99% of my data backed up, so I'm getting things back in shape.
But once again, I thank you very much - your support meant a lot.

Dave Burkhardt

From the far north woods of Wisconsin

(It's lonely up here sometimes)

 

[Timothy Daniels]

...I wanted to thank you specifically for hanging
with me on this cloning mess. The last couple of items did not work,
so I bit the bullet, cleaned the drive, and reinstalled the operating system.
Had 99% of my data backed up, so I'm getting things back in shape.

I hope the new tack takes you where you want to go.
We're always here to laugh and cry.

*TimDaniels*