Privacy programs

J

Jim Scott

No recent mention of the Webwasher/Privoxy type of programs for a
while here!
Have they gone out of fashion?
--
Jim
-----------------------------------------------
Tyneside - Top right of England
To email me directly:
miss out the X from my reply address or
visit http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott
-----------------------------------------------
 
S

sen

i think webwasher is still around
Jim Scott said:
No recent mention of the Webwasher/Privoxy type of programs for a
while here!
Have they gone out of fashion?
--
Jim
-----------------------------------------------
Tyneside - Top right of England
To email me directly:
miss out the X from my reply address or
visit http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott
-----------------------------------------------
 
M

Michael Forsythe

Jim said:
No recent mention of the Webwasher/Privoxy type of programs for a
while here!
Have they gone out of fashion?

I suspect that the popularity of more sophisticated browsers like
Firefox and Mozilla has rendered them redundant to some extent.
 
P

*ProteanThread*

Michael Forsythe said:
I suspect that the popularity of more sophisticated browsers like
Firefox and Mozilla has rendered them redundant to some extent.

Probably for those who use IE still ;-)
 
G

George Richards

Jim said:
No recent mention of the Webwasher/Privoxy type of programs for a
while here!
Have they gone out of fashion?

I have been happy with Proxomitron's performance, so I have never tried
Privoxy. I tried Webwasher a while back, and didn't like it because it
interferes with the Windows Update Page.
 
A

Anti_Freak_Machine

George Richards said...
I have been happy with Proxomitron's performance, so I have never tried
Privoxy. I tried Webwasher a while back, and didn't like it because it
interferes with the Windows Update Page.

You bring up a good point- I am more than pleased with proxomitron's
performance on so many levels. Since it quietly does its job I rarely
notice it is there- until I try to open up a link that has been blocked
via my hosts file and proxomitron displays the "Error connecting to site
The Proxomitron couldn't connect to..." page. I like the way its set
up as well- you don't need program updates, you just need to figure out
the filter system and add them yourself :) Maybe because Proxomitron is
never updated you rarely hear about it here.
 
R

Roger Johansson

Anti_Freak_Machine said:
I like the way its set
up as well- you don't need program updates, you just need to figure out
the filter system and add them yourself :) Maybe because Proxomitron is
never updated you rarely hear about it here.

It has been years now since we heard anything from Scott Lemon who
created Proxomitron.

How long can he be upset because somebody discovered a potentially bad
flaw in his program?

The way Proxomitron, of a certain version and with a certain setting,
bypasses a proxy can be very bad for somebody who uses anonymity proxies
because it blows his cover, that is what the controversy was about.

When somebody criticized the program for that he got so upset that he
just disappeared, and have still not shown up again.
 
J

jason

Roger said:
How long can he be upset because somebody discovered a potentially bad
flaw in his program?

The way Proxomitron, of a certain version and with a certain setting,
bypasses a proxy can be very bad for somebody who uses anonymity
proxies because it blows his cover, that is what the controversy was
about.

When somebody criticized the program for that he got so upset that he
just disappeared, and have still not shown up again.

There's apparently more to the story than that. I caught a whiff of it on
the Proxo newsletter, but I didn't care enough to really read it. I'm
happy as a clam with an older version of Proxo, so it doesn't bother me
that he quit updating.
 
R

Roger Johansson

There's apparently more to the story than that. I caught a whiff of it on
the Proxo newsletter, but I didn't care enough to really read it. I'm
happy as a clam with an older version of Proxo, so it doesn't bother me
that he quit updating.

There is not much more to the story than that.
Others have exaggerated the conflict afterwards though.

Quote from Scott Lemmon, the Author as found at Prox-List:
....
This is the only post I will make regarding Proxomiton.

Yes, I pulled the site down.

No, It's not because of Arne so no one should blame him. I'm not happy
with all those on the Yahoo list doing so.

I make lots of changes to the program with being human I sometimes
forget to document. I added this one because of a few emails
requesting it since it was a minor alteration (1 line of code). I
fogot about it until it was mentioned on the list.

Yes, I was hurt that Arne attacked me personally for this rather than
just making a case for changing it back - which I probably would have
been willing to do if enough people wanted it. I think my post at
Yahoo confirm this: As I said on the list, people will of course only
request something the program doesn't already do. So I know having a
number of requests for an item doesn't necessairly mean that's what
most people want.

I don't use "anon" proxies much myself anymore so I didn't think much
about it from that angle. To me having fail-over seem like a good idea
since it makes the connection itself more reliable. The basic argument
people requesting the feature made to me was "A proxy is to help your
connection - one that you can't connect to isn't helping". To be
bypassed the proxy actually has to fail to connect - usually after
several retries. The problem is many anon proxies are overloaded or
misconfigured so connection failures are not as uncommon as they are
with a normal proxy.

As Arne said, this isn't the first time I've considered giving it all
up. This is just the first time I've actually done it. I apologize,
I'm not perfect - all I was trying to do was the best I can. However,
if a change I considered so minor can get me labeled as a "betrayer of
trust" from someone I've long regarded with respect, then perhaps I
shouldn't be doing this at all.

In the end it's a matter of balance. There are many, many reasons for
me to give it up - not just this. In this day and age I even worry
someone might sue me because of it. I have to ask myself why devote so
much of my life to something when it can illicit this kind of reaction
from people. I've never asked that *anyone* use the program, and I'm
surely not offended if people wish to use something else.
.....


The reason why this became a problem was the difference in views between
the people who are very very serious about privacy issues, and Scott who
saw it from a practical side and did not think about anon proxies when
he made the program use a direct connection if the proxies failed.

Before he left he mended the relation to Arne and gave him a program fix
to distribute to the rest of the proxo users.

People who want to download Proxomitron will see that there are two
versions, one with the bypassing the proxy "feature/bug", and one
without it.

It's a pity he didn't make the program open source when he did not want
to develop it further himself.
 
J

jason

Roger Johansson wrote:

There is not much more to the story than that.

Nope, there apparently is more to the story...something about business.
But like I said, I didn't really read the posts, so I can't recap. All I
know is it came to light lately, well after the wars that you describe.
 
R

Roger Johansson

jason said:
Nope, there apparently is more to the story...something about business.
But like I said, I didn't really read the posts, so I can't recap. All I
know is it came to light lately, well after the wars that you describe.

You are making me so curious about this.
I have searched the web for any traces of what you are talking about and
I find nothing.

Only greatly exaggerated views on what really happened, like this piece:

" Although Proxomitron is available for download, unfortunately it has
been abandoned. The author was flamed and insulted endlessly by a
certain individual on the Proxomitron mailing list over a new function
he didn't like, and rather than put up with the abuse, the author
abandoned the program."

This is not how it happened. It was a very short and civilized
discussion. I was not present when it happened, although I had been a
member of the mailing list for years, but I read the messages which were
exchanged later.

Here is another rumor:
"There is another possibility; that the powers that be don't want
people being able to filter out their popup windows and scripts and
other snooping stuff, and so they set someone out to harass the author
into withdrawing the product from the market. It all just seems too
convenient to be a natural, unplanned action."

I know for sure that this is a groundless speculation.
Arne had been a supporter for years before this happened and he was not
sent out by anybody.

I think you may have heard these groundless speculations, and the long
discussions about conspiracy theories in general which followed.
 
J

Joe P

I see that Scott's last comment has been posted and I understand his
reasoning. The unfortunate fact is that proper firewall rules fix the
"problem" and attacks on Scott were not only unwarranted but
unnecessary.

People with an extreme need for privacy should have had rules
preventing any program from connecting to localhost on their
Proxomitron port except their browser and rules to prevent Proxomitron
from connecting to any but the remote anonymous proxy address.

I'm sure Scott felt attacked and don't blame him. After all, his
program was freeware. Maybe we should all be more appreciative of
freeware authors and let them know how much we appreciate their gifts.
A software author recognition page listing names of the programmers on
Pricelessware would be a great start.

Joe P
 
J

jason

Roger said:
You are making me so curious about this.
I have searched the web for any traces of what you are talking about

No, I subscribe to the Proxo mailing list. It was alluded to there.
 
J

jason

jason said:
No, I subscribe to the Proxo mailing list. It was alluded to there.

Okay, I found it. It was a message to the list:

Everyone:

I'd like to offer a conditional public apology to Arne Flaaten and
perhaps others for accusations I've made in the past. I say it's
conditional because some rumors have been floating lately, and if they're
true they might suggest another reason why Scott lost interest in
Proxomitron, a reason having little or nothing to do with unwarranted
complaints.

If InterMute was the sole licensee of Scott's code, and if InterMute
failed last summer to renew that license - given that they've now
released a version of AdSubtract which doesn't appear to use it - then
that was more likely the major event behind his much-lamented decision.
If in fact my accusations were wrong that Arne's and others' bad behavior
caused Scott's decision last summer, if I jumped to that conclusion
without having all the facts, then I'd like to apologize for doing so.
However, that still doesn't excuse the fact that Arne and a few others
were inconsolable loudmouth ingrates, and of that behavior I still stand
behind my criticism. This apology, such as it is, would have come a lot
sooner (or not been needed at all) if recent developments had been news
or rumor back then. If this amounts to reopening a healed wound just to
douse it in newly acquired antiseptic and stitch it back up, I'm sorry
for that, too.
 
N

NekoYasha

Roger Johansson said:
This is not how it happened. It was a very short and civilized
discussion. I was not present when it happened, although I had been a
member of the mailing list for years, but I read the messages which
were exchanged later.

Sorry to de-lurk here, but I was also on the prox-list at the time
witnessed the whole mess. You're a bit off in your history.

Keep in mind this wasn't really a bug, but a feature requested by several
people (I know I'd seen it requested on the list before). Scott's mistake
was he forgot to document the change. Still, I notice IE responds to dead
proxies in the same way now, so it's not like it's unusual behavior.
Sometimes I wonder if anon proxy users realize they're often using virus
backdoors created by spammers. It's very likely a trojaned computer who's
owner isn't even aware it's running a proxy.

Anyway, Arne was rather pissed about this change. Scott made several posts
trying to work it out and find some common ground, but Arne refused to be
at all reasonable and made several rather snide comments about how he could
no longer trust Scott.

Worse things had happened on the list before, but I think it was having a
long time supported like Arne go off on him that really pushed things over
the edge. Afterwards many people on the list then turned around and flamed
Arne which only made it worse. Read that reply of Scott's you posted again
- this is what it's referring to.

Also you're a bit off in your timeline. It hasn't "been years now" - all
this went down just under a year ago.

posted several very insulting posts
Here is another rumor:
"There is another possibility; that the powers that be don't want
people being able to filter out their popup windows and scripts and
other snooping stuff, and so they set someone out to harass the author
into withdrawing the product from the market. It all just seems too
convenient to be a natural, unplanned action."

There's lots of wild conspiracy theories, but I think the simple truth is
just that too many bad apples spoiled the lot. the "Arne thing" was
probably just the tipping point.

Really, I don't think freeware authors want constant praise, but often we
forget they're doing us a favor. Authors are pulled in lots of different
directions as people want conflicting features. People should at least be
polite and not expect or demand that they do something for you - they
already have by making it free in the first place.

=^_^=
 
N

NekoYasha

jason said:
If InterMute was the sole licensee of Scott's code, and if InterMute
failed last summer to renew that license - given that they've now
released a version of AdSubtract which doesn't appear to use it - then
that was more likely the major event behind his much-lamented
decision.

I saw that too, but it's wild speculation at best. Somewhere long ago
(maybe Arne's board) I remember Scott said that AdSubtract bought the
rights to use the old version 3 code, but it was a one time deal and he had
no idea what, if anything, they did with it. They also bought InterMute
outright (it existed before AdSubtract), and I think that's what they used
for their blocker.

=^_^=
 
J

jason

NekoYasha said:
I saw that too, but it's wild speculation at best.

And that's all I said...that Scott's decision to abandon Proxo might have
been more than just the wars with Arne.

But it was no secret that Scott had little time for Proxo -- he was holding
down another full-time job and did Proxo in his free time. And over the
years, there were various "pests" who demanded too much of him. Arne was
just the latest one. So, there may be many reasons why Scott decided to
throw in the towel. He had a HUGE fan base, but that might not have been
enough.
 
R

Roger Johansson

NekoYasha said:
Also you're a bit off in your timeline. It hasn't "been years now" - all
this went down just under a year ago.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

It feels like years ago, though.
 
P

point blank

In Scott's own words:

"I regret to say the Proxomitron web filter is well and truly dead.
Unfortunately, while attending a "save the hedgehog" rally, it was
fatally mauled by a jealous flock of rampaging echidnas. "



What a great program it is!!
 

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