Possible 9200se problems


S

Sjoerd Bakker

My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard
input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon
9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive
gaming.

I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I
can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the
card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan.

I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an
ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not
used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with
Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable
solution for me.
 
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C

carl0s

Sjoerd Bakker said:
My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard
input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon
9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive
gaming.

I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I
can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the
card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan.

I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an
ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not
used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with
Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable
solution for me.

I had a quantity of 9200SE 'Celestica' cards, whose supplied drivers caused
insane shutdowns and reboots upon changing the resolution. Have you tried
the newest drivers from http://www.ati.com ?
 
S

Sjoerd Bakker

I had a quantity of 9200SE 'Celestica' cards, whose supplied drivers caused
insane shutdowns and reboots upon changing the resolution. Have you tried
the newest drivers from http://www.ati.com ?

Yes. Lowering the clock speed did not help; I had another freeze. What
is causing them is hard to determine because they usually only happen
every couple of hours. Then I reset the computer and I can work again
for some hours. I can't even be sure that the video card is causing
them, but I did not have them with my old card.

If they keep continuing, I'll buy another card; just to be able to
isolate the problem.
 
P

patrickp

Yes. Lowering the clock speed did not help; I had another freeze. What
is causing them is hard to determine because they usually only happen
every couple of hours. Then I reset the computer and I can work again
for some hours. I can't even be sure that the video card is causing
them, but I did not have them with my old card.

If they keep continuing, I'll buy another card; just to be able to
isolate the problem.


It does sound like a heat problem, Sjoerd. Whether your card can
"function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously
on" isn't just down to the amount of heat the card produces and how
well its cooling works. Even the best graphics cooling system is
useless if it's stuck in a case with poor air circulation and too much
heat.

It would definitely be a good idea to consider a) some form of active
cooling for your card and b) investigating how good airflow is through
your case and specifically what sort of airflow there is around your
card.

A couple of ways you could establish whether heat _is_ the problem are
to run the system with the side of the case off and an external fan
directed on to the card, or to spray the card with a freezing aerosol
- or even just blow cold air over it - when it locks up and see if
either of these help.

Patrick

<[email protected]> - take five to email me...
 
S

Sjoerd Bakker

It does sound like a heat problem, Sjoerd. Whether your card can
"function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously
on" isn't just down to the amount of heat the card produces and how
well its cooling works. Even the best graphics cooling system is
useless if it's stuck in a case with poor air circulation and too much
heat..

It would definitely be a good idea to consider a) some form of active
cooling for your card

Selling cards without fans that can't function well that way would
seem a questionable commercial practice. That's why I was curious if
anyone else has the 9200se on continuously without problems.

and b) investigating how good airflow is through
your case and specifically what sort of airflow there is around your
card.

Right now I have the case open because of the problem with the card. I
even bought the 9200se *because* it has no fan: I don't need another
source of noise. My previous card was an ancient Stealth Video 2500
that had no fan either, and it worked fine. But there is no XP driver
for it and it interferes with my sound card.
A couple of ways you could establish whether heat _is_ the problem are
to run the system with the side of the case off and an external fan
directed on to the card, or to spray the card with a freezing aerosol
- or even just blow cold air over it - when it locks up and see if
either of these help.

Good suggestions; I'll consider them. But I doubt if you can unlock
cards that way in all cases of overheating. I may do some research on
the Internet. And I really don't feel like using a fan on a graphics
card, so I'll consider buying a GeForce type of card without fan
anyway and see how it functions.
 
P

patrickp

Selling cards without fans that can't function well that way would
seem a questionable commercial practice. That's why I was curious if
anyone else has the 9200se on continuously without problems.
Cards without fans are sold for people who want quiet machines: but a
moment's thought makes it obvious that good airflow over a fanless
card is essential. They're sold because people want them: I don't see
any problem with that, but perhaps manufacturers should make it clear
that these cards must have good airflow.

While fanless cards are a nice idea to reduce noise, they go inside
the case where the sound a fan would make is largely muted.
Substituting cooling the case for cooling the card is to some extent
counterproductive, since you're now doing the cooling with fans that
intake/exhaust to the outside of the case, where they're more audible.
Right now I have the case open because of the problem with the card. I
even bought the 9200se *because* it has no fan: I don't need another
source of noise. My previous card was an ancient Stealth Video 2500
that had no fan either, and it worked fine. But there is no XP driver
for it and it interferes with my sound card.

I don't know your Stealth Video 2500, but I would suspect that, like
most older cards, it didn't generate much heat. All modern cards do,
to some extent.
Good suggestions; I'll consider them. But I doubt if you can unlock
cards that way in all cases of overheating.

Depends whether permanent damage has been done by the heat build-up.
If not, and if lock-ups _are_ due to heat, this should work - but it's
meant more to establish for sure that overheating _is_ the problem,
rather than as a fix.
I may do some research on
the Internet. And I really don't feel like using a fan on a graphics
card, so I'll consider buying a GeForce type of card without fan
anyway and see how it functions.

If the problem is due to the heat, that may not make any difference: a
GeForce is likely to run just as hot as an ATI card. If the model you
go for has a better passive heatsink, that may help, but some ATI
models may have better heatsinks, too. I don't think you'll find
solutions by blaming the card, only by improving your overall cooling
strategies.

Patrick

<[email protected]> - take five to email me...
 
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S

Sjoerd Bakker

Cards without fans are sold for people who want quiet machines: but a
moment's thought makes it obvious that good airflow over a fanless
card is essential. They're sold because people want them: I don't see
any problem with that, but perhaps manufacturers should make it clear
that these cards must have good airflow.

Yes. As an avarage consumer, I don't expect that I should take special
mesures to cool the case when I buy a video card that is sold as such
without fan.
While fanless cards are a nice idea to reduce noise, they go inside
the case where the sound a fan would make is largely muted.
Substituting cooling the case for cooling the card is to some extent
counterproductive, since you're now doing the cooling with fans that
intake/exhaust to the outside of the case, where they're more audible.

Maybe you are right.

I don't know your Stealth Video 2500, but I would suspect that, like
most older cards, it didn't generate much heat. All modern cards do,
to some extent.

The thing is that I don't need a very fast card for gaming; it only
needs to be a little faster than a card from 1997 and have an XP
driver. So from my point of view, such a card could technically be
fanless without problems. I've looked around, and there are many
fanless video cards; maybe I just had bad luck with the 9200se. But
after this trouble, I'll consider buying one with a fan anyway; it
seems the safest thing to do.
Depends whether permanent damage has been done by the heat build-up.
If not, and if lock-ups _are_ due to heat, this should work - but it's
meant more to establish for sure that overheating _is_ the problem,
rather than as a fix.

Yes. But I was thinking that the software of the driver could lock up
as well when you have a hardware error. It would be interesting to
unfreeze a card that way though, but I could not find any reports on
the Internet of people who have done so.
If the problem is due to the heat, that may not make any difference: a
GeForce is likely to run just as hot as an ATI card. If the model you
go for has a better passive heatsink, that may help, but some ATI
models may have better heatsinks, too. I don't think you'll find
solutions by blaming the card, only by improving your overall cooling
strategies.

In this case, I partly blame the card as well, but your point is
taken.
 
C

carl0s

<snip>

To be honest, I think you either have a faulty card, motherboard, or PSU. I
would first try another similar card, then another PSU, then..
 
S

Sjoerd Bakker

<snip>

To be honest, I think you either have a faulty card, motherboard, or PSU. I
would first try another similar card, then another PSU, then..

I think it's the card, or a combination of the card and another
component. The motherboard is good (P4P800SE). The PSU is not very
good (300W Maxpower) but I don't expect that it is problematic. I did
not really trust the video card when I bought it, and will probably
buy another one to isolate the problem.

Thanks for the advice everyone.
 
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S

Sjoerd Bakker

My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard
input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon
9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive
gaming.

I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I
can't be sure of that.

An update: it appears that the 9200SE has not been the cause of the
freezes after all; a GeForce card that I bought and underclocked gave
exactly the same problems. The real cause of the problems has probably
been a buggy Marvell Yukon LAN driver. Many other people who use the
same device and driver (8.35.2.3) have reported lockups as well. I
updated the driver today and have had no freezes so far.
 

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