POP3 / Exchange Server conflict

[kristjan.otsmann]

I have Windows XP Pro SP2 and Outlook 2003 SP2. I send/receive mail via
Exchange Server and Gmail POP3 when I'm at work. The problem occurs
when I use my computer at home and I don't have a connection with the
Exchange Server. In this case Outlook receives one message via POP3 and
hangs.

Any solutions?

 

[CMM]

1) Make sure cached exchange mode is on. Control Panel -> Mail -> E-mail
Accounts -> (several dumb steps later (could they make this any more
unintuitive?)...Exchange... Advanced.

2) (If it has one) Log on to your POP server's web interface and see if you
can clear out some messages. Outlook's POP engine is the WORST I have seen
since the freeware/shareware POP e-mail clients circa 1993! It's extremely
fragile and faints at the slightest thing.

3) Disable some of your rules and see if they're causing the problem.

4) Many say "disable AntiVirus or AntiSpam" programs you may have running to
see if they're the culprit.

Anyway, for the most part, Outlook 2003 is completely worthless in scenerios
like this. It's especially infuriating since Cached Exchange Mode was
supposed to make this sort of stuff easy and was highly "marketed." We spent
$$$ upgrading many of our mobile users at our company only to find Outlook
2003 jam-packed with really dumb head-smacking bugs... especially in "road
warrior" scenerios like this.

I don't think Office 2003 in general was very well QA'd.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

Solution to what? You have given us no information to troubleshoot your
issue.

Describe how your home mail is setup and someone can help you more than
likely.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, (e-mail address removed) asked:

| I have Windows XP Pro SP2 and Outlook 2003 SP2. I send/receive mail
| via Exchange Server and Gmail POP3 when I'm at work. The problem
| occurs when I use my computer at home and I don't have a connection
| with the Exchange Server. In this case Outlook receives one message
| via POP3 and hangs.
|
| Any solutions?

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

In

I have Windows XP Pro SP2 and Outlook 2003 SP2. I send/receive mail
via Exchange Server and Gmail POP3 when I'm at work. The problem
occurs when I use my computer at home and I don't have a connection
with the Exchange Server. In this case Outlook receives one message
via POP3 and hangs.

Any solutions?

1. I wouldn't mix and match account types if possible - just use Exchange in
this mail profile. [OT, but if you're using Gmail for your personal use, do
you really want all your personal mail to become company property? I
wouldn't.] I suggest you use OE for your personal mail if you don't want to
use the web interface, or a separate profile that delivers mail to a PST and
checks Gmail only

2. Have you talked to your network admins/IT staff at work to see what kind
of remote access they may offer to the server? For example, if they run
E2003, you can use RPC over HTTP to connect to your mailbox over the
Internet.

3. If #2 isn't possible, #1 makes even more sense - use another mail profile
or OE for your Gmail.

 

[CMM]

Contrary to your advice, I think lots of users would love to use Outlook to
its fullest potential. In fact this was once the whole purpose of Outlook
("The Universal Inbox"). And Cached Exchange Mode was suppose to render your
advice obsolete.

As for personal e-mail becoming company property, many of us use rules to
move messages to a local PST rather than reside in the Offline Exchange OST.

If I'm not to use Outlook in "that way" personally I'd rather DITCH Outlook
altogether, use OWA for Exchange and whatever "real" E-mail client for my
POP e-mail.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

In

I have Windows XP Pro SP2 and Outlook 2003 SP2. I send/receive mail
via Exchange Server and Gmail POP3 when I'm at work. The problem
occurs when I use my computer at home and I don't have a connection
with the Exchange Server. In this case Outlook receives one message
via POP3 and hangs.

Any solutions?

1. I wouldn't mix and match account types if possible - just use Exchange
in this mail profile. [OT, but if you're using Gmail for your personal
use, do you really want all your personal mail to become company property?
I wouldn't.] I suggest you use OE for your personal mail if you don't want
to use the web interface, or a separate profile that delivers mail to a
PST and checks Gmail only

2. Have you talked to your network admins/IT staff at work to see what
kind of remote access they may offer to the server? For example, if they
run E2003, you can use RPC over HTTP to connect to your mailbox over the
Internet.

3. If #2 isn't possible, #1 makes even more sense - use another mail
profile or OE for your Gmail.

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

In

Contrary to your advice, I think lots of users would love to use
Outlook to its fullest potential.

Hardly contrary to any advice I'd be likely to give!
I'm just not sure that accessing a Gmail account in Outlook falls into that
category for me, but YMMV.

In fact this was once the whole
purpose of Outlook ("The Universal Inbox").

Is it? I'm not familiar with that term - frankly, it sounds like a marketing
department slogan to me. I support Exchange and Outlook daily and am merely
offering my advice as to how it will be happiest...including RPC over HTTP
if your company allows it, which would likely fix your problem even if you
continued to keep your Gmail account in there. I'm presuming this is a
laptop you take home, and that it works fine when you're on your corporate
network and have full connectivity to the Exchange server.

And Cached Exchange Mode
was suppose to render your advice obsolete.

Eh? I use cached mode happily and have not advised against it in my reply to
you. Cached mode isn't going to help Outlook find the server it's trying to
connect to in its primary account, though...perhaps you need to play with
your send/receive groups so it won't try to find the Exchange server when
its not at work.

As for personal e-mail becoming company property, many of us use
rules to move messages to a local PST rather than reside in the
Offline Exchange OST.

OK, and if that works for you, well and good. I personally don't like PSTs,
and a number companies I support don't allow POP/IMAP use by their
users....anything that goes into the Exchange mail stores comes in via SMTP
delivery and is scanned by antivirus software/content management/antispam
stuff. No back doors.

If I'm not to use Outlook in "that way" personally I'd rather DITCH
Outlook altogether, use OWA for Exchange and whatever "real" E-mail
client for my POP e-mail.

OWA won't give you the full functionality of Outlook, but of course you're
free to use it. You can keep doing what you're doing now, but it doesn't
sound to me like it's working well. When I advise against mixing account
types, it's mainly because there will invariably be issues with
delivery/account selection - and your primary account is Exchange (or should
be) so when you have no connection to the server, naturally it's getting a
bit confused. All I've done is offer my advice - you're under no obligation
to follow it.

In

I have Windows XP Pro SP2 and Outlook 2003 SP2. I send/receive mail
via Exchange Server and Gmail POP3 when I'm at work. The problem
occurs when I use my computer at home and I don't have a connection
with the Exchange Server. In this case Outlook receives one message
via POP3 and hangs.

Any solutions?

1. I wouldn't mix and match account types if possible - just use
Exchange in this mail profile. [OT, but if you're using Gmail for
your personal use, do you really want all your personal mail to
become company property? I wouldn't.] I suggest you use OE for your
personal mail if you don't want to use the web interface, or a
separate profile that delivers mail to a PST and checks Gmail only

2. Have you talked to your network admins/IT staff at work to see
what kind of remote access they may offer to the server? For
example, if they run E2003, you can use RPC over HTTP to connect to
your mailbox over the Internet.

3. If #2 isn't possible, #1 makes even more sense - use another mail
profile or OE for your Gmail.

 

[CMM]

I understand what you're saying. But...

Eh? I use cached mode happily and have not advised against it in my reply
to you. Cached mode isn't going to help Outlook find the server it's
trying to connect to in its primary account, though...

No, but it also shouldn't blow up your other accounts. You can't tell me
that's a *feature.* Come on now. Furthermore, the whole point of cached
exchange mode was for mobile situations like this... direct from their big
marketing HYPE campaign
(http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/assistance/HA011402591033.aspx).

When I advise against mixing account types, it's mainly because there will
invariably be issues with delivery/account selection - and your primary
account is Exchange (or should be) so when you have no connection to the
server, naturally it's getting a bit confused.

"Naturally?" ..... Are you kidding me? "Invariably?"..... Why?
This should work. It's not like this is 1.0 software... and especially when
this version 11.0(?!) touted these very features.

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

In

I understand what you're saying. But...


No, but it also shouldn't blow up your other accounts. You can't tell
me that's a *feature.* Come on now. Furthermore, the whole point of
cached exchange mode was for mobile situations like this... direct
from their big marketing HYPE campaign
(http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/assistance/HA011402591033.aspx).

I don't see anything in there that talks about "....ease of use if you have
multiple account types in your mail profile" - it's about Exchange. Offline
use of Exchange. You're using that successfully already.

The problem isn't cached mode. Cached mode is working fine, if you can open
your mail profile when you have no live connection to your Exchange server.
I think your issue is, you're trying to use *one* of your email accounts,
and Outlook is trying to find the Exchange server. Did you try playing with
send/receive group settings as I suggested? What's your default mail account
set up as in Outlook? I would want it to be Exchange, but you may need to
change it. I don't know for sure, as I do not use the configuration you are
trying to use. I prefer to have all mail handled by Exchange, for the myriad
reasons I've already enumerated.

"Naturally?" ..... Are you kidding me? "Invariably?"..... Why?
This should work. It's not like this is 1.0 software... and
especially when this version 11.0(?!) touted these very features.

It sometimes does work. And sometimes you end up with a reply trying to go
out using an account you can't actually connect using, etc. I just find it
troublesome.

Again, I don't see why you aren't also pursuing RPC over HTTP if you want to
be able to use this computer in multiple locations. It's not like that would
take anything away from what you're trying to do now, is it?

 

[CMM]

Again, I understand what you're saying. And I know all about using multiple
accounts and (in reply to a point you make) "replying" to messages. I'm
actually an Outlook Developer... and have programmed many custom business
systems against Outlook for many years now.

I just do not see why having Exchange be your primary account should
interfere with *RECEIVING* POP mail. Why client-side rules don't run when
you're not connected to Exchange (but are receiving POP mail), but they do
run (against POP) if you're connected to Exchange at Outlook-startup and
then disconnect from Exchange (turn off VPN).

These are out-and-out bugs. Or bad, unintuitive design.

P.S. I understand what you're saying about http connection.... you're pretty
much suggesting an *always available* connection to Exchange to fix all our
woes.... but again, this is something Cached Exchange Mode was suppossed to
remedy (in a better way than classic offline OST)... if not, what's its
point? Apparently it does not.

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

In

Again, I understand what you're saying. And I know all about using
multiple accounts and (in reply to a point you make) "replying" to
messages. I'm actually an Outlook Developer... and have programmed
many custom business systems against Outlook for many years now.

I just do not see why having Exchange be your primary account should
interfere with *RECEIVING* POP mail. Why client-side rules don't run
when you're not connected to Exchange (but are receiving POP mail),
but they do run (against POP) if you're connected to Exchange at
Outlook-startup and then disconnect from Exchange (turn off VPN).

These are out-and-out bugs. Or bad, unintuitive design.

P.S. I understand what you're saying about http connection.... you're
pretty much suggesting an *always available* connection to Exchange
to fix all our woes.... but again, this is something Cached Exchange
Mode was suppossed to remedy (in a better way than classic offline
OST)... if not, what's its point? Apparently it does not.

RPC over HTTP != cached mode, of course; they aren't actually
interdependent. Cached mode works far better for me and my clients than the
old manual OST stuff did (and I've seen error, such as you're experiencing
with that, too). Truly sorry I can't help you with your issue, but it isn't
a configuration I would ever use for reasons I believe I have already
enumerated. You might try posting in microsoft.public.exchange.clients.

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

In

I don't see anything in there that talks about "....ease of use if
you have multiple account types in your mail profile" - it's about
Exchange. Offline use of Exchange. You're using that successfully
already. The problem isn't cached mode. Cached mode is working fine, if
you
can open your mail profile when you have no live connection to your
Exchange server. I think your issue is, you're trying to use *one*
of your email accounts, and Outlook is trying to find the Exchange
server. Did you try playing with send/receive group settings as I
suggested? What's your default mail account set up as in Outlook? I
would want it to be Exchange, but you may need to change it. I don't
know for sure, as I do not use the configuration you are trying to
use. I prefer to have all mail handled by Exchange, for the myriad
reasons I've already enumerated.

It sometimes does work. And sometimes you end up with a reply trying
to go out using an account you can't actually connect using, etc. I
just find it troublesome.

Again, I don't see why you aren't also pursuing RPC over HTTP if you
want to be able to use this computer in multiple locations. It's not
like that would take anything away from what you're trying to do
now, is it?

 

[CMM]

So long to the Universal Inbox.

P.S.
you say you've never heard that term? It was big in the Microsoft Hype
machine during Outlook's inception when it evolved from Microsoft Exchange
Client and Windows 95 Inbox/Messaging. Some of us use Outlook *PRECISELY*
for that reason.... because if not for that very *convenience*, there are a
myriad of better solutions for 1) e-mail (eh, countless fat clients and even
OWA for simple messaging) and 2) calendaring and PIM (i.e. easily shareable
and accessible online solutions).

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

In

Again, I understand what you're saying. And I know all about using
multiple accounts and (in reply to a point you make) "replying" to
messages. I'm actually an Outlook Developer... and have programmed
many custom business systems against Outlook for many years now.

I just do not see why having Exchange be your primary account should
interfere with *RECEIVING* POP mail. Why client-side rules don't run
when you're not connected to Exchange (but are receiving POP mail),
but they do run (against POP) if you're connected to Exchange at
Outlook-startup and then disconnect from Exchange (turn off VPN).

These are out-and-out bugs. Or bad, unintuitive design.

P.S. I understand what you're saying about http connection.... you're
pretty much suggesting an *always available* connection to Exchange
to fix all our woes.... but again, this is something Cached Exchange
Mode was suppossed to remedy (in a better way than classic offline
OST)... if not, what's its point? Apparently it does not.

RPC over HTTP != cached mode, of course; they aren't actually
interdependent. Cached mode works far better for me and my clients than
the old manual OST stuff did (and I've seen error, such as you're
experiencing with that, too). Truly sorry I can't help you with your
issue, but it isn't a configuration I would ever use for reasons I believe
I have already enumerated. You might try posting in
microsoft.public.exchange.clients.

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
I understand what you're saying. But...

And Cached Exchange Mode
was suppose to render your advice obsolete.

Eh? I use cached mode happily and have not advised against it in my
reply to you. Cached mode isn't going to help Outlook find the
server it's trying to connect to in its primary account, though...

No, but it also shouldn't blow up your other accounts. You can't
tell me that's a *feature.* Come on now. Furthermore, the whole
point of cached exchange mode was for mobile situations like
this... direct from their big marketing HYPE campaign
(http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/assistance/HA011402591033.aspx).

I don't see anything in there that talks about "....ease of use if
you have multiple account types in your mail profile" - it's about
Exchange. Offline use of Exchange. You're using that successfully
already. The problem isn't cached mode. Cached mode is working fine, if
you
can open your mail profile when you have no live connection to your
Exchange server. I think your issue is, you're trying to use *one*
of your email accounts, and Outlook is trying to find the Exchange
server. Did you try playing with send/receive group settings as I
suggested? What's your default mail account set up as in Outlook? I
would want it to be Exchange, but you may need to change it. I don't
know for sure, as I do not use the configuration you are trying to
use. I prefer to have all mail handled by Exchange, for the myriad
reasons I've already enumerated.

When I advise against mixing account types, it's mainly because
there will invariably be issues with delivery/account selection -
and your primary account is Exchange (or should be) so when you
have no connection to the server, naturally it's getting a bit
confused.

"Naturally?" ..... Are you kidding me? "Invariably?"..... Why?
This should work. It's not like this is 1.0 software... and
especially when this version 11.0(?!) touted these very features.

It sometimes does work. And sometimes you end up with a reply trying
to go out using an account you can't actually connect using, etc. I
just find it troublesome.

Again, I don't see why you aren't also pursuing RPC over HTTP if you
want to be able to use this computer in multiple locations. It's not
like that would take anything away from what you're trying to do
now, is it?

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

In

So long to the Universal Inbox.

P.S.
you say you've never heard that term? It was big in the Microsoft Hype
machine during Outlook's inception when it evolved from Microsoft
Exchange Client and Windows 95 Inbox/Messaging. Some of us use
Outlook *PRECISELY* for that reason.... because if not for that very
*convenience*, there are a myriad of better solutions for 1) e-mail
(eh, countless fat clients and even OWA for simple messaging) and 2)
calendaring and PIM (i.e. easily shareable and accessible online
solutions).

No, I'm afraid I never saw it. Interestingly enough, prior to OL2002, using
Exchange and Internet mail in the same Outlook profile was not even
supported....

In

Again, I understand what you're saying. And I know all about using
multiple accounts and (in reply to a point you make) "replying" to
messages. I'm actually an Outlook Developer... and have programmed
many custom business systems against Outlook for many years now.

I just do not see why having Exchange be your primary account should
interfere with *RECEIVING* POP mail. Why client-side rules don't run
when you're not connected to Exchange (but are receiving POP mail),
but they do run (against POP) if you're connected to Exchange at
Outlook-startup and then disconnect from Exchange (turn off VPN).

These are out-and-out bugs. Or bad, unintuitive design.

P.S. I understand what you're saying about http connection....
you're pretty much suggesting an *always available* connection to
Exchange to fix all our woes.... but again, this is something
Cached Exchange Mode was suppossed to remedy (in a better way than
classic offline OST)... if not, what's its point? Apparently it
does not.

RPC over HTTP != cached mode, of course; they aren't actually
interdependent. Cached mode works far better for me and my clients
than the old manual OST stuff did (and I've seen error, such as
you're experiencing with that, too). Truly sorry I can't help you
with your issue, but it isn't a configuration I would ever use for
reasons I believe I have already enumerated. You might try posting in
microsoft.public.exchange.clients.

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
message

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
I understand what you're saying. But...

And Cached Exchange Mode
was suppose to render your advice obsolete.

Eh? I use cached mode happily and have not advised against it in
my reply to you. Cached mode isn't going to help Outlook find the
server it's trying to connect to in its primary account,
though...

No, but it also shouldn't blow up your other accounts. You can't
tell me that's a *feature.* Come on now. Furthermore, the whole
point of cached exchange mode was for mobile situations like
this... direct from their big marketing HYPE campaign
(http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/assistance/HA011402591033.aspx).

I don't see anything in there that talks about "....ease of use if
you have multiple account types in your mail profile" - it's about
Exchange. Offline use of Exchange. You're using that successfully
already. The problem isn't cached mode. Cached mode is working
fine, if you
can open your mail profile when you have no live connection to your
Exchange server. I think your issue is, you're trying to use *one*
of your email accounts, and Outlook is trying to find the Exchange
server. Did you try playing with send/receive group settings as I
suggested? What's your default mail account set up as in Outlook? I
would want it to be Exchange, but you may need to change it. I
don't know for sure, as I do not use the configuration you are
trying to use. I prefer to have all mail handled by Exchange, for
the myriad reasons I've already enumerated.

When I advise against mixing account types, it's mainly because
there will invariably be issues with delivery/account selection -
and your primary account is Exchange (or should be) so when you
have no connection to the server, naturally it's getting a bit
confused.

"Naturally?" ..... Are you kidding me? "Invariably?"..... Why?
This should work. It's not like this is 1.0 software... and
especially when this version 11.0(?!) touted these very features.

It sometimes does work. And sometimes you end up with a reply
trying to go out using an account you can't actually connect
using, etc. I just find it troublesome.

Again, I don't see why you aren't also pursuing RPC over HTTP if
you want to be able to use this computer in multiple locations.
It's not like that would take anything away from what you're
trying to do now, is it?

 

[CMM]

No, I'm afraid I never saw it. Interestingly enough, prior to OL2002,

using Exchange and Internet mail in the same Outlook profile was not even
supported....

That's absolutely not true!
Gosh, I'm truly astonished.
Man, how'd you become an MVP?

Outlook 2000/98/97 "Corporate/Workgroup Mode" (a.k.a. MAPI/Exchange mode)
absolutely supported POP in the same profile
(http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q195500/)!
"Internet Mail Only" mode was just a faster mode without the MAPI overhead
and with more Internet-specific features (and IMAP support which almost
nobody used anyway).

I gotta say My gosh, again.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

In

So long to the Universal Inbox.

P.S.
you say you've never heard that term? It was big in the Microsoft Hype
machine during Outlook's inception when it evolved from Microsoft
Exchange Client and Windows 95 Inbox/Messaging. Some of us use
Outlook *PRECISELY* for that reason.... because if not for that very
*convenience*, there are a myriad of better solutions for 1) e-mail
(eh, countless fat clients and even OWA for simple messaging) and 2)
calendaring and PIM (i.e. easily shareable and accessible online
solutions).

No, I'm afraid I never saw it. Interestingly enough, prior to OL2002,
using Exchange and Internet mail in the same Outlook profile was not even
supported....

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
Again, I understand what you're saying. And I know all about using
multiple accounts and (in reply to a point you make) "replying" to
messages. I'm actually an Outlook Developer... and have programmed
many custom business systems against Outlook for many years now.

I just do not see why having Exchange be your primary account should
interfere with *RECEIVING* POP mail. Why client-side rules don't run
when you're not connected to Exchange (but are receiving POP mail),
but they do run (against POP) if you're connected to Exchange at
Outlook-startup and then disconnect from Exchange (turn off VPN).

These are out-and-out bugs. Or bad, unintuitive design.

P.S. I understand what you're saying about http connection....
you're pretty much suggesting an *always available* connection to
Exchange to fix all our woes.... but again, this is something
Cached Exchange Mode was suppossed to remedy (in a better way than
classic offline OST)... if not, what's its point? Apparently it
does not.

RPC over HTTP != cached mode, of course; they aren't actually
interdependent. Cached mode works far better for me and my clients
than the old manual OST stuff did (and I've seen error, such as
you're experiencing with that, too). Truly sorry I can't help you
with your issue, but it isn't a configuration I would ever use for
reasons I believe I have already enumerated. You might try posting in
microsoft.public.exchange.clients.



"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
message

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
I understand what you're saying. But...

And Cached Exchange Mode
was suppose to render your advice obsolete.

Eh? I use cached mode happily and have not advised against it in
my reply to you. Cached mode isn't going to help Outlook find the
server it's trying to connect to in its primary account,
though...

No, but it also shouldn't blow up your other accounts. You can't
tell me that's a *feature.* Come on now. Furthermore, the whole
point of cached exchange mode was for mobile situations like
this... direct from their big marketing HYPE campaign
(http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/assistance/HA011402591033.aspx).

I don't see anything in there that talks about "....ease of use if
you have multiple account types in your mail profile" - it's about
Exchange. Offline use of Exchange. You're using that successfully
already. The problem isn't cached mode. Cached mode is working
fine, if you
can open your mail profile when you have no live connection to your
Exchange server. I think your issue is, you're trying to use *one*
of your email accounts, and Outlook is trying to find the Exchange
server. Did you try playing with send/receive group settings as I
suggested? What's your default mail account set up as in Outlook? I
would want it to be Exchange, but you may need to change it. I
don't know for sure, as I do not use the configuration you are
trying to use. I prefer to have all mail handled by Exchange, for
the myriad reasons I've already enumerated.

When I advise against mixing account types, it's mainly because
there will invariably be issues with delivery/account selection -
and your primary account is Exchange (or should be) so when you
have no connection to the server, naturally it's getting a bit
confused.

"Naturally?" ..... Are you kidding me? "Invariably?"..... Why?
This should work. It's not like this is 1.0 software... and
especially when this version 11.0(?!) touted these very features.

It sometimes does work. And sometimes you end up with a reply
trying to go out using an account you can't actually connect
using, etc. I just find it troublesome.

Again, I don't see why you aren't also pursuing RPC over HTTP if
you want to be able to use this computer in multiple locations.
It's not like that would take anything away from what you're
trying to do now, is it?

 

[Ken Slovak - [MVP - Outlook]]

Yeah, it supported it but you couldn't choose the delivery account and most
of the time everything went out from Exchange. MS might have officially
supported it but it just didn't work very well and most of us recommended
strongly against doing that.

I know of no Outlook MVP that ever used Exchange and POP in the same profile
before Outlook 2002. Lanwench isn't mistaken.

 

[CMM]

I used it. I can agree that it didn't work fantastically and 2002 was an
improvement.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

Yeah, it supported it but you couldn't choose the delivery account and
most of the time everything went out from Exchange. MS might have
officially supported it but it just didn't work very well and most of us
recommended strongly against doing that.

I know of no Outlook MVP that ever used Exchange and POP in the same
profile before Outlook 2002. Lanwench isn't mistaken.

 

[CMM]

I know of no Outlook MVP that ever used Exchange and POP in the same

profile before Outlook 2002. Lanwench isn't mistaken.

Also, to add to my other post, your statement above isn't the same as saying
"Interestingly enough, prior to OL2002, using Exchange and Internet mail in
the same Outlook profile was not even supported" which is blatantly wrong.
Also...

Yeah, it supported it but you couldn't choose the delivery account

Yes, you could. Either by changing the delivery order on-the-fly (a bit
cumbersome)... or even better creating an easily reusable custom Form with
an alternate "From."

The main glaring difficiency was with the Rules engine not having a
"Received through Account" option.


--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

Yeah, it supported it but you couldn't choose the delivery account and
most of the time everything went out from Exchange. MS might have
officially supported it but it just didn't work very well and most of us
recommended strongly against doing that.

I know of no Outlook MVP that ever used Exchange and POP in the same
profile before Outlook 2002. Lanwench isn't mistaken.

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

In

That's absolutely not true!

Really?

From KB 245446:
---------------------------------
.....
"Your profile contains both of the following services: . An internet e-mail
service such as Simple Mail Transport Protocol (SMTP) or Post Office
Protocol 3 (POP3)
-And-
. Microsoft Exchange Server service
This behavior is due to the way that MAPI handles SMTP address resolution.
While this configuration may appear to work, the resolution order, and
therefore the ability to resolve SMTP addresses correctly, may not work.
This behavior becomes more noticeable in complex organizations. This
configuration also causes issues when you connect to a computer that is
running Microsoft Exchange Server.

Microsoft does not support this configuration."
---------------------------------

Gosh, I'm truly astonished.
Man, how'd you become an MVP?

I collected a lot of box tops.

Outlook 2000/98/97 "Corporate/Workgroup Mode" (a.k.a. MAPI/Exchange
mode) absolutely supported POP in the same profile
(http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q195500/)!
"Internet Mail Only" mode was just a faster mode without the MAPI
overhead and with more Internet-specific features (and IMAP support
which almost nobody used anyway).

I gotta say My gosh, again.

In

So long to the Universal Inbox.

P.S.
you say you've never heard that term? It was big in the Microsoft
Hype machine during Outlook's inception when it evolved from
Microsoft Exchange Client and Windows 95 Inbox/Messaging. Some of us use
Outlook *PRECISELY* for that reason.... because if not for
that very *convenience*, there are a myriad of better solutions for
1) e-mail (eh, countless fat clients and even OWA for simple
messaging) and 2) calendaring and PIM (i.e. easily shareable and
accessible online solutions).

No, I'm afraid I never saw it. Interestingly enough, prior to OL2002,
using Exchange and Internet mail in the same Outlook profile was not
even supported....

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
Again, I understand what you're saying. And I know all about using
multiple accounts and (in reply to a point you make) "replying" to
messages. I'm actually an Outlook Developer... and have programmed
many custom business systems against Outlook for many years now.

I just do not see why having Exchange be your primary account
should interfere with *RECEIVING* POP mail. Why client-side rules
don't run when you're not connected to Exchange (but are
receiving POP mail), but they do run (against POP) if you're
connected to Exchange at Outlook-startup and then disconnect from
Exchange (turn off VPN). These are out-and-out bugs. Or bad,
unintuitive design.

P.S. I understand what you're saying about http connection....
you're pretty much suggesting an *always available* connection to
Exchange to fix all our woes.... but again, this is something
Cached Exchange Mode was suppossed to remedy (in a better way than
classic offline OST)... if not, what's its point? Apparently it
does not.

RPC over HTTP != cached mode, of course; they aren't actually
interdependent. Cached mode works far better for me and my clients
than the old manual OST stuff did (and I've seen error, such as
you're experiencing with that, too). Truly sorry I can't help you
with your issue, but it isn't a configuration I would ever use for
reasons I believe I have already enumerated. You might try posting
in microsoft.public.exchange.clients.



"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
in message

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
I understand what you're saying. But...

And Cached Exchange Mode
was suppose to render your advice obsolete.

Eh? I use cached mode happily and have not advised against it
in my reply to you. Cached mode isn't going to help Outlook
find the server it's trying to connect to in its primary
account, though...

No, but it also shouldn't blow up your other accounts. You can't
tell me that's a *feature.* Come on now. Furthermore, the whole
point of cached exchange mode was for mobile situations like
this... direct from their big marketing HYPE campaign
(http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/assistance/HA011402591033.aspx).

I don't see anything in there that talks about "....ease of use
if you have multiple account types in your mail profile" - it's
about Exchange. Offline use of Exchange. You're using that
successfully already. The problem isn't cached mode. Cached mode
is working fine, if you
can open your mail profile when you have no live connection to
your Exchange server. I think your issue is, you're trying to
use *one* of your email accounts, and Outlook is trying to find
the Exchange server. Did you try playing with send/receive group
settings as I suggested? What's your default mail account set up
as in Outlook? I would want it to be Exchange, but you may need
to change it. I don't know for sure, as I do not use the
configuration you are trying to use. I prefer to have all mail
handled by Exchange, for the myriad reasons I've already
enumerated.

When I advise against mixing account types, it's mainly because
there will invariably be issues with delivery/account
selection - and your primary account is Exchange (or should
be) so when you have no connection to the server, naturally
it's getting a bit confused.

"Naturally?" ..... Are you kidding me? "Invariably?"..... Why?
This should work. It's not like this is 1.0 software... and
especially when this version 11.0(?!) touted these very
features.

It sometimes does work. And sometimes you end up with a reply
trying to go out using an account you can't actually connect
using, etc. I just find it troublesome.

Again, I don't see why you aren't also pursuing RPC over HTTP if
you want to be able to use this computer in multiple locations.
It's not like that would take anything away from what you're
trying to do now, is it?

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

In

Also, to add to my other post, your statement above isn't the same as
saying "Interestingly enough, prior to OL2002, using Exchange and
Internet mail in the same Outlook profile was not even supported"
which is blatantly wrong

Please see my reply to your previous--and rather impolite--reply to *me*.

. Also...


Yes, you could. Either by changing the delivery order on-the-fly (a
bit cumbersome)... or even better creating an easily reusable custom
Form with an alternate "From."

I'd call both of the above 'workarounds'.

 

[CMM]

Really?

From KB 245446:

Sigh. 1) This is in a SERVER scenerio where Exchange is not set properly to
handle SMTP requests from the client, and 2) is about, well, SMTP!... this
entire discussion has been about POP receiving.

Read the very last paragraph of that KB. If IMS was installed on the Server,
the problem goes away. Outlook (in CW mode) forwards SMTP communications to
Exchange Server. Again, Internet Mail and Exchange Accounts in the same
profile was fully supported by Microsoft. What you say notwithstanding.

I'm sorry that you think I'm impolite. And if I was incorrect in my
statements, I would admit that I was mistaken in the information I've
provided other users. I get annoyed when other people can't do the same.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

In

That's absolutely not true!

Really?

From KB 245446:
---------------------------------
....
"Your profile contains both of the following services: . An internet
e-mail service such as Simple Mail Transport Protocol (SMTP) or Post
Office Protocol 3 (POP3)
-And-
. Microsoft Exchange Server service
This behavior is due to the way that MAPI handles SMTP address resolution.
While this configuration may appear to work, the resolution order, and
therefore the ability to resolve SMTP addresses correctly, may not work.
This behavior becomes more noticeable in complex organizations. This
configuration also causes issues when you connect to a computer that is
running Microsoft Exchange Server.

Microsoft does not support this configuration."
---------------------------------

Gosh, I'm truly astonished.
Man, how'd you become an MVP?

I collected a lot of box tops.

Outlook 2000/98/97 "Corporate/Workgroup Mode" (a.k.a. MAPI/Exchange
mode) absolutely supported POP in the same profile
(http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q195500/)!
"Internet Mail Only" mode was just a faster mode without the MAPI
overhead and with more Internet-specific features (and IMAP support
which almost nobody used anyway).

I gotta say My gosh, again.

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
So long to the Universal Inbox.

P.S.
you say you've never heard that term? It was big in the Microsoft
Hype machine during Outlook's inception when it evolved from
Microsoft Exchange Client and Windows 95 Inbox/Messaging. Some of us
use Outlook *PRECISELY* for that reason.... because if not for
that very *convenience*, there are a myriad of better solutions for
1) e-mail (eh, countless fat clients and even OWA for simple
messaging) and 2) calendaring and PIM (i.e. easily shareable and
accessible online solutions).

No, I'm afraid I never saw it. Interestingly enough, prior to OL2002,
using Exchange and Internet mail in the same Outlook profile was not
even supported....



In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
Again, I understand what you're saying. And I know all about using
multiple accounts and (in reply to a point you make) "replying" to
messages. I'm actually an Outlook Developer... and have programmed
many custom business systems against Outlook for many years now.

I just do not see why having Exchange be your primary account
should interfere with *RECEIVING* POP mail. Why client-side rules
don't run when you're not connected to Exchange (but are
receiving POP mail), but they do run (against POP) if you're
connected to Exchange at Outlook-startup and then disconnect from
Exchange (turn off VPN). These are out-and-out bugs. Or bad,
unintuitive design.

P.S. I understand what you're saying about http connection....
you're pretty much suggesting an *always available* connection to
Exchange to fix all our woes.... but again, this is something
Cached Exchange Mode was suppossed to remedy (in a better way than
classic offline OST)... if not, what's its point? Apparently it
does not.

RPC over HTTP != cached mode, of course; they aren't actually
interdependent. Cached mode works far better for me and my clients
than the old manual OST stuff did (and I've seen error, such as
you're experiencing with that, too). Truly sorry I can't help you
with your issue, but it isn't a configuration I would ever use for
reasons I believe I have already enumerated. You might try posting
in microsoft.public.exchange.clients.



"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
in message

In CMM <[email protected]> typed:
I understand what you're saying. But...

And Cached Exchange Mode
was suppose to render your advice obsolete.

Eh? I use cached mode happily and have not advised against it
in my reply to you. Cached mode isn't going to help Outlook
find the server it's trying to connect to in its primary
account, though...

No, but it also shouldn't blow up your other accounts. You can't
tell me that's a *feature.* Come on now. Furthermore, the whole
point of cached exchange mode was for mobile situations like
this... direct from their big marketing HYPE campaign
(http://office.microsoft.com/en-ca/assistance/HA011402591033.aspx).

I don't see anything in there that talks about "....ease of use
if you have multiple account types in your mail profile" - it's
about Exchange. Offline use of Exchange. You're using that
successfully already. The problem isn't cached mode. Cached mode
is working fine, if you
can open your mail profile when you have no live connection to
your Exchange server. I think your issue is, you're trying to
use *one* of your email accounts, and Outlook is trying to find
the Exchange server. Did you try playing with send/receive group
settings as I suggested? What's your default mail account set up
as in Outlook? I would want it to be Exchange, but you may need
to change it. I don't know for sure, as I do not use the
configuration you are trying to use. I prefer to have all mail
handled by Exchange, for the myriad reasons I've already
enumerated.

When I advise against mixing account types, it's mainly because
there will invariably be issues with delivery/account
selection - and your primary account is Exchange (or should
be) so when you have no connection to the server, naturally
it's getting a bit confused.

"Naturally?" ..... Are you kidding me? "Invariably?"..... Why?
This should work. It's not like this is 1.0 software... and
especially when this version 11.0(?!) touted these very
features.

It sometimes does work. And sometimes you end up with a reply
trying to go out using an account you can't actually connect
using, etc. I just find it troublesome.

Again, I don't see why you aren't also pursuing RPC over HTTP if
you want to be able to use this computer in multiple locations.
It's not like that would take anything away from what you're
trying to do now, is it?

 

[CMM]

Yes, you could. Either by changing the delivery order on-the-fly (a

I'd call both of the above 'workarounds'.

Sure.... a workaround to not having an Accounts dropdown list in the Compose
Window. Not a workaround to not being able to SEND mail from another account
or at least having it appear to be from another account (which is common...
even today, ISP's force you to use their own SMTP servers even if you use
another POP server to receive mail... and in a corporate setting, Exchange
usually does the same).

So, in the end, it was indeed possible.
Heh, I used it all the time.