Personal security and Microsoft Security Essentials

[mm]

http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-10362227-12.html

"You can choose between two SpyNet memberships. Basic submits to
Microsoft the detected software's origins, your response to it, and
whether that action was successful, while the Advanced membership
submits all that plus the location on your hard drive of the software
in question, how it operates, and how it has impacted your computer."

ESPECIALLY:
"Both basic and advanced warn users that personal data might be
"accidentally" sent to Microsoft, although they promise to neither
identify nor contact you. Opting out of SpyNet, however, is not an
option in Security Essentials. "

What personal data might they be talking about?

I installed XP myself and I didn't name the computer after myself. I
didn't name the network anything meaningful.

I only save unimportant userid's and passwords, and I don't save my
bank or charge account numbers, but they wouldnt' fetch personal info
out of cookies anyhow, would they? Aren't bank and charge account
numbers in cookies encrypted anyhow?

What personal data are they going to accidentally retrieve?


Also, does MSE interfere with other AV programs? Spybot S&D, I think
it is, insists it doesn't interfere with other programs, nor them
with it? Are there any other anti-malware programs that claim that?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

You should have only ONE AV (Spybot is *not* AV!)

<snip>

Clarification - you should only have one real-time AV running at the
same time. Having more than one available to run on-demand is a good
idea, IMHO.

--
Zaphod

Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's
something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the
universe gets that.

 

[Paul]

http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-10362227-12.html

"You can choose between two SpyNet memberships. Basic submits to
Microsoft the detected software's origins, your response to it, and
whether that action was successful, while the Advanced membership
submits all that plus the location on your hard drive of the software
in question, how it operates, and how it has impacted your computer."

ESPECIALLY:
"Both basic and advanced warn users that personal data might be
"accidentally" sent to Microsoft, although they promise to neither
identify nor contact you. Opting out of SpyNet, however, is not an
option in Security Essentials. "

What personal data might they be talking about?

I installed XP myself and I didn't name the computer after myself. I
didn't name the network anything meaningful.

I only save unimportant userid's and passwords, and I don't save my
bank or charge account numbers, but they wouldnt' fetch personal info
out of cookies anyhow, would they? Aren't bank and charge account
numbers in cookies encrypted anyhow?

What personal data are they going to accidentally retrieve?


Also, does MSE interfere with other AV programs? Spybot S&D, I think
it is, insists it doesn't interfere with other programs, nor them
with it? Are there any other anti-malware programs that claim that?

Thanks a lot.

If you're really paranoid, you can run Wireshark packet sniffer, and
record all incoming and outgoing Ethernet packets. If some of your
software "talks" to an external agent, you can go back through the log
and figure out what's been compromised or sent without your approval.
It is certainly "closing the gate after the horse has bolted", but
will give you a means to answer the questions you have. If the
info is encrypted, then you're not going to be able to read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireshark

Obviously, really clever software, can defeat a tool like that.
So it isn't a given, that all packets are logged. But as long
as the software you're monitoring is "reasonably naive", you'll
log something worth reviewing.

Paul

 

[choro]

If you're really paranoid, you can run Wireshark packet sniffer, and
record all incoming and outgoing Ethernet packets. If some of your
software "talks" to an external agent, you can go back through the log
and figure out what's been compromised or sent without your approval.
It is certainly "closing the gate after the horse has bolted", but

Sir, we have a better saying that that and it goes...

The granny bolted the door only after she made sure she got laid!

Now, can you beat THAT?! (ROFL)

 

[Peter Foldes]

Clarification - you should only have one real-time AV running at the same time.
Having more than one available to run on-demand is a good idea, IMHO.

Zaphod

Thanks for correcting this Bozo. He thinks he knows his stuff but unfortunately he
does not. Besides he is a well known Troll

--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

 

[Cheng Heng]

He thinks he knows his stuff but unfortunately he
does not. Besides he is a well known Troll

You mean like you! It takes one to know another!!!

 

[Cheng Heng]

@ Peter Foldes

It was Robear Dyer himself who told me that one should *not* have more
than one AV installed on a PC, active or not!

You don't need to listen to anybody. Microsoft's recommends that you
should install only one security product at any one time. The authority
is here:

<http://www.microsoft.com/security_e...=4cae1455-6ead-493c-b5d8-7c88f39c0656#mainNav>

It says:

"If you use more than one antivirus or antispyware program at the same
time, your computer may experience decreased performance, become
unstable, or restart unexpectedly. Before you install Microsoft Security
Essentials, you should disable or uninstall other security-related
programs."

hth

 

[Peter Foldes]

Dave
You misread or you did not understand what Robear said. Only one to be installed
active and the others if you so desire should be ones that are online.

--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

 

[Peter Foldes]

Cheng Heng

Go over and show Dave how it is done. At least you are close to him in the UK.
Another Brooks sidekick and one and the same as it looks like

--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

 

[mm]

If you're really paranoid, you can run Wireshark packet sniffer, and
record all incoming and outgoing Ethernet packets. If some of your
software "talks" to an external agent, you can go back through the log
and figure out what's been compromised or sent without your approval.
It is certainly "closing the gate after the horse has bolted", but
will give you a means to answer the questions you have. If the
info is encrypted, then you're not going to be able to read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireshark

Obviously, really clever software, can defeat a tool like that.
So it isn't a given, that all packets are logged. But as long
as the software you're monitoring is "reasonably naive", you'll
log something worth reviewing.

Thanks. I may install it and use it for a while.

And thanks Cheng. I've read that MSE is not that great, so if I have
to *disable* other AV programs to use it, I don't see how that could
be worth it.

 

[Peter Foldes]

LOL. You are an idiot. So does that mean if I change my email setup to read
(e-mail address removed) that I also work for Microsoft?

You are a fool and a Troll and a sorry ass ignorant idiot.

If you were able to read the posting headers properly which you are not able to you
would have seen that he is posting from Exeter,Devon, UK. Go ahead and scratch head
on how to see and read that header,


--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

 

[glee]

<snip>

Clarification - you should only have one real-time AV running at the
same time. Having more than one available to run on-demand is a good
idea, IMHO.

....but you must choose two that will install and run without
interference. There are plenty of posts through the years documenting
Norton AV refusing to install while another AV is installed.....active
or not. Ditto McAfee. There are also numerous cases of Norton and
McAfee leaving behind components when uninstalled, either preventing
another AV from installing, or interfering with its proper operation.
In these cases not only is the AV not active, it's been uninstalled.
That's why the Symantec and the McAfee Removal tools are so often
recommended. Symantec (Norton) has in the past been particularly bad
about this, though the newest versions seem to have improved some as far
as uninstalling cleanly.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

...but you must choose two that will install and run without
interference. There are plenty of posts through the years
documenting Norton AV refusing to install while another AV is
installed.....active or not. Ditto McAfee. There are also numerous
cases of Norton and McAfee leaving behind components when
uninstalled, either preventing another AV from installing, or
interfering with its proper operation. In these cases not only is
the AV not active, it's been uninstalled. That's why the Symantec
and the McAfee Removal tools are so often recommended. Symantec
(Norton) has in the past been particularly bad about this, though
the newest versions seem to have improved some as far as
uninstalling cleanly.

Having abandoned those many, many years ago I wasn't aware that some
refuse to install if another is already installed, but have often run
into the difficulty in removing the remains of a supposedly
uninstalled AV. Thanks for the info.

--
Zaphod

Arthur Dent, speaking to Trillian about Zaphod:
"So, two heads is what does it for a girl?"
"...Anything else he's got two of?"

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

You don't need to listen to anybody. Microsoft's recommends that
you should install only one security product at any one time. The
authority is here:

<http://www.microsoft.com/security_e...=4cae1455-6ead-493c-b5d8-7c88f39c0656#mainNav>

It says:

"If you use more than one antivirus or antispyware program at the
same time, your computer may experience decreased performance,
become unstable, or restart unexpectedly. Before you install
Microsoft Security Essentials, you should disable or uninstall other
security-related programs."

Which is incomplete information, designed to be the easiest and
clearest recommendation they can make that is understandable by the
largest number of users. If you install more than one, you just have
to make sure that the real-time components of one of them are disabled
or you will likely have conflicts and slowdowns as they indicate. But
if only one is ever running at any given point in time, there are no
problems, at least in my experience.

 

[Peter Foldes]

BD

Trolling again? Check my email address on this post. Am I posting from Microsoft ?
Get a life David

--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

Cheng Heng

Go over and show Dave how it is done. At least you are close to him in
the UK. Another Brooks sidekick and one and the same as it looks like

Cheng Heng works for Microsoft
******************************

..... and has *no* connection with BoaterDave. At least, that's what his email
address suggests! You can see that in his/her header information, viz:-

Path:
border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!not-for-mail
From: Cheng Heng <Cheng.Heng@d Microsoft Security Essentials
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 23:10:03 +0000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: (e-mail address removed)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ekzArPPmzw91lt8m6rUuFQ.user.speranza.aioe.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2
Bytes: 1209
Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:2122787

*********************************

Hmmm! As explained by Gino - do you remember?

Q: Is it possible to determine the source of a post from a header?
A: Possibly, but there are so many qualifiers as to make such an effort
pointless for all but a very few in the world. Even then there are scenarios where
such determination is impossible.

I'll even give you this:- Message-ID: <[email protected]>


I'm puzzled though. *Why* would you think Cheng Heng had anything at all to do
with me? <scratches head> <rubs chin too>

 

[mm]

mm wrote:



Did you read and understand what Cheng said? I repeat .....

"Microsoft's recommends that you should install only one security
product at any one time. The authority is here:

<http://www.microsoft.com/security_e...=4cae1455-6ead-493c-b5d8-7c88f39c0656#mainNav>

It says:

"If you use more than one antivirus or antispyware program at the same
time, your computer may experience decreased performance, become
unstable, or restart unexpectedly. Before you install Microsoft Security
Essentials, you should disable or uninstall other security-related
programs.""

Exactly, it says "disable or uninstall". I cited the weaker of the
two. It didn't just say "don't run scans when another scan is running,
or when the live function of another program is running. It didn't
say just disable or uninstall the live function of the the other
security-related programs. Are you saying that they mean and I'm
supposed to know they mean only part of the program? *If* that is
what they mean, I wish they had said it, instead of dismissing the
other programs totally; and I would rather disable the live part of
MSE and see how it does in scans.

**

Please cite a reference to exactly *where* you have read that "MSE is
not great".

I'm not here to cite references and I can't prove it to you, but I
read on objective-sounding pages that there were quite a few things it
didn't find that other AV programs did.

Please also advise what you are currently using for your AV and other
malware protection.

I don't want to open myself up for personal criticism, and that seems
to be the direction this is going.

 

[mm]

Which is incomplete information, designed to be the easiest and
clearest recommendation they can make that is understandable by the
largest number of users. If you install more than one, you just have
to make sure that the real-time components of one of them are disabled
or you will likely have conflicts and slowdowns as they indicate. But
if only one is ever running at any given point in time, there are no
problems, at least in my experience.

That's a better explanation than they gave. Thanks. FTR, I did for a
couple years in win98 have both Norton AV live and AVG live running at
the same time and never had a conflict and never noticed a slowdown.
This is when I was getting more viruses by email than now, and every
month or so I would get an alert, in almost all cases by only one of
the two programs, I forget which, but sometimes the other program
alerted.

I didn't make a thorough study of it, but my impression was that
happened when the malware file name had no extension. Can that be
done, and then a second malware program installed that will rename the
destructive file, yet the second program won't be found because it's
not listed, and the more destructive file won't be scanned by some AV
because it has no executable extension?

But I'm old now and don't want to go looking for conflicts, so I don't
want to run things known or even likely to conflict.

 

[mm]

mm wrote:
[....]

Exactly, it says "disable or uninstall". I cited the weaker of the
two. It didn't just say "don't run scans when another scan is running,
or when the live function of another program is running. It didn't
say just disable or uninstall the live function of the the other
security-related programs. Are you saying that they mean and I'm
supposed to know they mean only part of the program? *If* that is
what they mean, I wish they had said it, instead of dismissing the
other programs totally; and I would rather disable the live part of
MSE and see how it does in scans.

I'm not here to cite references and I can't prove it to you, but I
read on objective-sounding pages that there were quite a few things it
didn't find that other AV programs did.

I don't want to open myself up for personal criticism, and that seems
to be the direction this is going.

No one is trying to put any pressure upon you 'mm'.

Please feel free to do your own thing and simply ignore advice from others.

No worries! ;-)

Okay. Thanks.