"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"


C

carl feredeck

http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+...P/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version of
Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars
advertising since it came out six months ago.

He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for
balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that
connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't communicate
with the PC properly.

"Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with
market research firm IDC.

Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every
major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with
the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and retailers
to give the older operating system more room in their product lines.

Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web
sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.

Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it
compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported
quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing
help from strong Vista sales.

Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly
all software and hardware is compatible.

Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for
upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in
Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it
was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the
software.

"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it
with XP?'" he said.

Testing users' comfort level
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to
buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

"XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said Jon
Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon start
supporting Vista.

Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,
something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does not
carry XP machines.

The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its
employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on
Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be
uncomfortable.

"My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers running
XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to work," said WUG
vice president Joel Diamond.

Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other companies
to solve any problems.

"There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group
product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the
anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent
"unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners and
other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000 software
programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail titles, he
says.

But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional that
works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay $199 for
an upgrade.

Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista
compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for
linking to PCs is also incompatible.

Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

"We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.
"Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."
 
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M

Mike Hall - MVP

And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..

Your point is?


carl feredeck said:
http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+...P/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version
of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars
advertising since it came out six months ago.

He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for
balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that
connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't
communicate with the PC properly.

"Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with
market research firm IDC.

Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every
major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with
the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and
retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product
lines.

Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web
sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.

Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it
compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported
quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing
help from strong Vista sales.

Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly
all software and hardware is compatible.

Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for
upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in
Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it
was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the
software.

"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it
with XP?'" he said.

Testing users' comfort level
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to
buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

"XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said
Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon
start supporting Vista.

Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,
something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does
not carry XP machines.

The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its
employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on
Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be
uncomfortable.

"My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers
running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to
work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.

Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other
companies to solve any problems.

"There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group
product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the
anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent
"unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners
and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000
software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail
titles, he says.

But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional
that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay
$199 for an upgrade.

Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista
compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for
linking to PCs is also incompatible.

Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

"We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.
"Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
C

carl feredeck

No no no.. that is not a good analogy.

A good analogy is that windows Me users wanted win98 back because WinMe was
crap!
The same thing is happening with winXP and Vista now.

I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted 98
back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!
And if someone would ask for such a change then.. I would look them strangly
in the eye looking for signs of insanity!
 
B

babaloo

Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come
loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real
market penetration.
Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and
have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.
Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and
hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use
for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP infrastructure
and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.
No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,
including ME.
The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities
negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end
components. This is beta level performance.
Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and low
end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane price
of Vista.
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

The problem for you is that the analogy does not support what you want it to
support.. like it or not, there were more than a few who wanted 98 in place
of XP.. for the same reasons too.. don't like the look, can't find anything,
nothing works..


carl feredeck said:
No no no.. that is not a good analogy.

A good analogy is that windows Me users wanted win98 back because WinMe
was crap!
The same thing is happening with winXP and Vista now.

I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted
98 back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!
And if someone would ask for such a change then.. I would look them
strangly in the eye looking for signs of insanity!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
C

carl feredeck

Vista should be released only for Mac hardware

Haha now thats a first.. but what you say is logical..
also another thing you could say that you should use it only with microsoft
*updated* software.
 
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M

Mike Hall - MVP

Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition.. mission
critical operations require absolute stability and compatibility.. nothing
has changed over the years.. there is no argument here.. never has been..


babaloo said:
Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come
loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real
market penetration.
Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and
have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.
Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and
hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use
for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP
infrastructure and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.
No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,
including ME.
The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities
negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end
components. This is beta level performance.
Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and
low end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane
price of Vista.

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
C

carl feredeck

Just because vista has a flashy theme doesnt make it better technology. It
doesnt really have much more to offer. Sorry.

I like new software... there is only one acception from all the software I
have ever used in my life. Vista.
Vista is new but it is so bad that even though my habbits are to always have
the latest and greatest,
vistas poor quality made me change that. I mean I can put up with a lot of
crap.. but I also have to get things done!
 
F

Frank

babaloo said:
Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come
loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real
market penetration.

On, so you're in the market survey business?
Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and
have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.

Rollouts in large companies won't happen until most of the employees are
using Vista at home. This in effect, save the company from disarray and
saves the IT's ass. Vista is not XP + eye candy. It is a new learning
experience.
Vista remains slow,

Not if you have the proper hardware...

incompatible with a wide variety of software and
hardware configurations,

Hummmm...name the "wide variety" of software/hardware it's
incompatibility with, ok...


lousy for multimedia and games,

Games I don't know but we have no problem with multimedia...


impossible to use for high end graphics,

Ut oh...bullsh*t...just lost your credibility...not true and you have no
idea what you're talking about...

difficult to network with existing XP infrastructure
and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.

Now you've shoved your ignorant head way up your arse....
Nah...you're not even close to being right.
Obviously, you've never used Vista Ultimate on a correctly configured
machine.
Get lost fool.
Frank
 
M

Mike

Mike Hall - MVP said:
Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition..

I get the impression that some of these people here whining about Vista are
too young to remember that. They apparently grew up with XP and it's all
they know.

At least they certainly give that impression with their "It's too big, too
bloated, too much eye candy, too incompatible with existing apps/hardware,
no drivers" and on and on and on.

We heard ALL of this at XP's launch, and at 2000's launch, and at NT 4's
launch, and at NT 3.1's launch.

Mike
 
M

Mike

carl feredeck said:
Just because vista has a flashy theme doesnt make it better technology. It
doesnt really have much more to offer. Sorry.

The theme is the least of Vista's improvements. One of the machines I'm
running it on is a ThinkPad T41 laptop. I can't even GET Aero because of
the video card (32 meg Mobility Radeon 9000), but I'd still rather use Vista
than XP on this machine. Better all-around performance due to MUCH better
memory management (I have 1 GB) and MUCH better included apps. Windows Mail
is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

Mike
 
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G

Gary S. Terhune

ROFL!! You've obviously never spent much time in the Win98 groups. there are
*still* folks dropping in there who want to revert from XP to 98. When XP
was new, the issue was quite prevalent.
 
A

Adam Albright

Then you don't know many people.

Most people are naturally resistant to change. They don't like "new" when
they are comfortable with "old and familiar". In a few years time people
will look back at XP and think "I used to actually *use* this?" I thought
that about Windows 2000 a few years ago, and am quickly starting to feel
that way about XP.

Mike

You're missing the point. XP was a major leap compared to prior
versions of Windows. Vista is mostly added eye candy and clunky,
poorly implemented "features" like UAC and slower file transfers for
many users. A safe bet Vista will get better over time, nobody is
arguing that it won't, but as it is now, it needs work.
 
M

Mike

Gary S. Terhune said:
ROFL!! You've obviously never spent much time in the Win98 groups. there
are *still* folks dropping in there who want to revert from XP to 98. When
XP was new, the issue was quite prevalent.

"Quite Prevalent" is the understatement of the year! People were claiming
that XP was "the chink in the MS armor that (Linux and/or OS X) needed to
get real market share gains".

Sound familiar? Same old, same old.

Mike
 
C

carl feredeck

Windows Mail
is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

win mail IS outlook express with small changes and a new name!
the most significant change is that it doesn't use DBX anymore.. but even
THAT creates problems....
Better all-around performance due to MUCH better
memory management (I have 1 GB) and MUCH

Vista performance improvement? You are delusional man.... sheeshhhh
Vista is slower than XP. Its all around the internet.. but it seems you dont
surf that much.
What are you doing? Sitting in front of vista playing with flip 3d and
sidebar all day?

The real world shows that vista is FAR behind in performance compared to XP.
When cornered the vista users throw this excuse:

"No new version of windows was ever faster than its predecessor"
and MUCH better included apps

Dont make me laugh! What better apps? The games? Or the snippet tool? lol
La-dee-daaa!

The only thing that you could say is a plus is media center for home
users... since it is vista home premium is the equivilent of
XP home....

But I personally dont like media center...
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

Too young maybe, convenient memories maybe.. a desire to bash MS most
definitely..


Mike said:
I get the impression that some of these people here whining about Vista
are too young to remember that. They apparently grew up with XP and it's
all they know.

At least they certainly give that impression with their "It's too big, too
bloated, too much eye candy, too incompatible with existing apps/hardware,
no drivers" and on and on and on.

We heard ALL of this at XP's launch, and at 2000's launch, and at NT 4's
launch, and at NT 3.1's launch.

Mike

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
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M

Mike

Adam Albright said:
You're missing the point. XP was a major leap compared to prior
versions of Windows.

No, *you* are missing the point. No one called XP "a major leap" in 2001.
It was called "2000 with eye candy".

You seem to have no memory of this. Amazing.

Mike
 
M

MICHAEL

* Mike:
The theme is the least of Vista's improvements. One of the machines I'm
running it on is a ThinkPad T41 laptop. I can't even GET Aero because of
the video card (32 meg Mobility Radeon 9000), but I'd still rather use Vista
than XP on this machine. Better all-around performance due to MUCH better
memory management (I have 1 GB) and MUCH better included apps.
Windows Mail
is certainly a better newsreader than Outlook Express!

With that statement, you have lost all credibility.

FYI, Windows Mail will be phased out and replaced
by Windows Live Mail. Windows Mail is not being
developed anymore, except for security updates.
To Microsoft's credit they realized how bad Windows Mail
was and have moved forward with Windows Live Mail.

Do keep up, please.


-Michael
 
J

John John

Adam Albright wrote:

You're missing the point. XP was a major leap compared to prior
versions of Windows...

BullHonk!!! It was Windows 2000 with a face full of makeup and fishnet
stockings!

John
 
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L

Lil' Dave

carl feredeck said:
http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+...P/2100-1016_3-6197757.html?tag=html.alert.hed

David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version
of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars
advertising since it came out six months ago.

He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for
balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that
connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't
communicate with the PC properly.

"Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with
market research firm IDC.

Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every
major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with
the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and
retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product
lines.

Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web
sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.

Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it
compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported
quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing
help from strong Vista sales.

Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly
all software and hardware is compatible.

Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for
upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in
Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it
was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the
software.

"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it
with XP?'" he said.

Testing users' comfort level
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to
buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

"XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said
Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon
start supporting Vista.

Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,
something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does
not carry XP machines.

The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its
employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on
Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be
uncomfortable.

"My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers
running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to
work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.

Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other
companies to solve any problems.

"There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group
product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the
anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent
"unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners
and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000
software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail
titles, he says.

But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional
that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay
$199 for an upgrade.

Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista
compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for
linking to PCs is also incompatible.

Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

"We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.
"Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."


If such problems exist, and MS is aware of it, why not a disclaimer on the
box or sheet inside the box indicating those 3rd party apps versions, and
hardware? Is the list that long? Or is MS in pseudo-denial again?

Dave
 

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