peak polygon performance: PS2 vs X360


G

Guest

reading the internet can be very informative - from scrolling through
several message boards found out that ATI has said that if the Xbox 360
graphics processor (Xenos) was doing nothing but working on geometry, it
could calculate in theory, a maximum of just over 6 and a half billion
polygons per second. how does this compare to the old PS2? the PS2 can
calculate a maximum of 66 million polygons per second with its Emotion
Engine CPU (since the PS2 graphics chip is not a GPU and therefore cannot
calculate/transform its own polygons.) In the area of simply transforming
/ calculating polygons, the Xenos GPU in Xbox 360 is 100 times more powerful
than PS2's Emotion Engine. notice the wording there, I did not say Xbox
360 is 100 times more powerful than PS2. I gave specific comparisons.

now we all know that PS2 cannot display 66 million polygons on the screen in
games. likewise, the Xbox 360 cannot display 6.5 billion polygons on the
screen in actual games.


now is where the comparison gets slightly closer - triangle setup. that
is, the setting up of polygons that are getting ready to be rendered on
screen. the PS2 is the more interesting of the two consoles in this
regard. unlike most systems (console, arcade, PC, etc) the PS2 can actually
setup and draw more polygons than it can calculate. because the Graphics
Synthesizer can setup and draw, in theory, a peak of 75 million polygons per
second. because of this, the Emotion Engine which can only calculate /
transform 66M polygons/sec, can never overwhelm the GS chip. the triangle
setup rate being 75 million polygons is very impressive since it exceeds the
amount of polygons that can be calculated. of course, the GS will never
actually setup 75 million because it can only be feed a max of 66M from the
EE.

okay so how many polygons can the Xbox 360 setup? well the triangle setup
rate of the Xenos GPU is 500 million per second. in this regard, Xbox 360
is only 6 or 7 times more powerful than PS2. this is a more realistic
comparison but still not the definitive comparison.

the Xbox 360, according to the old Xenon hardware overview document and
system block diagram should be able to achieve 500 million polygons per
second with hardware effects on, plus some level of pixel shaders. this is
an awesome thing, if it turns out to be true. it has been said that this is
not just some peak theoretical figure, but what the Xbox 360 can actually
achieve in realworld conditions, and in games! the 500 million polygon
performance level for Xbox 360 therefore, should be a more realistic goal
than Xbox1's 300 million / 150 million / 125 million / 116 million polygon
performance that MS and Nvidia claimed throughout 2000 and 2001 (as the Xbox
GPU spec decreased and decreased closer to launch if you recall)

whereas, the PS2 would never achieve 75 or even 66 million polygons per
second. the realistic performance that PS2 *has* achieved (in games) is
5, 10, 15 and maybe 20 million polygons per second. imagine that Xbox 360
games start out at 100 million polygons /sec much like PS2 games started out
at 5 million, and that Xbox 360 only reaches 4/5ths of its max, 400 million
polygons /sec. that is just awesome compared to PS2. the realistic
comparison is therefore, Xbox 360 is probably roughly 20 times more powerful
than PS2.

there is not yet enough information to make a comparison with the new
STI-Cell and Nvidia-RSX powered Playstation3, yet. early information
suggests that the Nvidia RSX (PS3 GPU) can calculate a peak of 1.1 billion
polygons per second which is less than what Xenos can calculate (6.5 billion
polygons). but what matters more is the setup rate. it is likely that
PS3's RSX will be able to setup more polygons per second than Xenos can.
that is, more than 500 million. I'm waiting for complete information on
RSX to become available. since the RSX is still under construction, a few
more months will have to pass, but not too long since PS3 is due for release
in spring 2006.

at the end of the day, Xbox 360 and PS3 will be very close in actual game
graphics. but I wanted this post to be mainly a comparison of Xbox 360 to
our current Playstation2.
 
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D

drybones

WHY??
reading the internet can be very informative - from scrolling through
several message boards found out that ATI has said that if the Xbox 360
graphics processor (Xenos) was doing nothing but working on geometry, it
could calculate in theory, a maximum of just over 6 and a half billion
polygons per second. how does this compare to the old PS2? the PS2 can
calculate a maximum of 66 million polygons per second with its Emotion
Engine CPU (since the PS2 graphics chip is not a GPU and therefore cannot
calculate/transform its own polygons.) In the area of simply
transforming / calculating polygons, the Xenos GPU in Xbox 360 is 100
times more powerful than PS2's Emotion Engine. notice the wording there,
I did not say Xbox 360 is 100 times more powerful than PS2. I gave
specific comparisons.

now we all know that PS2 cannot display 66 million polygons on the screen
in games. likewise, the Xbox 360 cannot display 6.5 billion polygons on
the screen in actual games.


now is where the comparison gets slightly closer - triangle setup. that
is, the setting up of polygons that are getting ready to be rendered on
screen. the PS2 is the more interesting of the two consoles in this
regard. unlike most systems (console, arcade, PC, etc) the PS2 can
actually setup and draw more polygons than it can calculate. because the
Graphics Synthesizer can setup and draw, in theory, a peak of 75 million
polygons per second. because of this, the Emotion Engine which can only
calculate / transform 66M polygons/sec, can never overwhelm the GS chip.
the triangle setup rate being 75 million polygons is very impressive since
it exceeds the amount of polygons that can be calculated. of course, the
GS will never actually setup 75 million because it can only be feed a max
of 66M from the EE.

okay so how many polygons can the Xbox 360 setup? well the triangle setup
rate of the Xenos GPU is 500 million per second. in this regard, Xbox 360
is only 6 or 7 times more powerful than PS2. this is a more realistic
comparison but still not the definitive comparison.

the Xbox 360, according to the old Xenon hardware overview document and
system block diagram should be able to achieve 500 million polygons per
second with hardware effects on, plus some level of pixel shaders. this
is an awesome thing, if it turns out to be true. it has been said that
this is not just some peak theoretical figure, but what the Xbox 360 can
actually achieve in realworld conditions, and in games! the 500 million
polygon performance level for Xbox 360 therefore, should be a more
realistic goal than Xbox1's 300 million / 150 million / 125 million / 116
million polygon performance that MS and Nvidia claimed throughout 2000 and
2001 (as the Xbox GPU spec decreased and decreased closer to launch if you
recall)

whereas, the PS2 would never achieve 75 or even 66 million polygons per
second. the realistic performance that PS2 *has* achieved (in games) is
5, 10, 15 and maybe 20 million polygons per second. imagine that Xbox
360 games start out at 100 million polygons /sec much like PS2 games
started out at 5 million, and that Xbox 360 only reaches 4/5ths of its
max, 400 million polygons /sec. that is just awesome compared to PS2. the
realistic comparison is therefore, Xbox 360 is probably roughly 20 times
more powerful than PS2.

there is not yet enough information to make a comparison with the new
STI-Cell and Nvidia-RSX powered Playstation3, yet. early information
suggests that the Nvidia RSX (PS3 GPU) can calculate a peak of 1.1
billion polygons per second which is less than what Xenos can calculate
(6.5 billion polygons). but what matters more is the setup rate. it is
likely that PS3's RSX will be able to setup more polygons per second than
Xenos can. that is, more than 500 million. I'm waiting for complete
information on RSX to become available. since the RSX is still under
construction, a few more months will have to pass, but not too long since
PS3 is due for release in spring 2006.

at the end of the day, Xbox 360 and PS3 will be very close in actual game
graphics. but I wanted this post to be mainly a comparison of Xbox 360
to our current Playstation2.
 
D

drybones

PS2 FAN BOY!\\


reading the internet can be very informative - from scrolling through
several message boards found out that ATI has said that if the Xbox 360
graphics processor (Xenos) was doing nothing but working on geometry, it
could calculate in theory, a maximum of just over 6 and a half billion
polygons per second. how does this compare to the old PS2? the PS2 can
calculate a maximum of 66 million polygons per second with its Emotion
Engine CPU (since the PS2 graphics chip is not a GPU and therefore cannot
calculate/transform its own polygons.) In the area of simply
transforming / calculating polygons, the Xenos GPU in Xbox 360 is 100
times more powerful than PS2's Emotion Engine. notice the wording there,
I did not say Xbox 360 is 100 times more powerful than PS2. I gave
specific comparisons.

now we all know that PS2 cannot display 66 million polygons on the screen
in games. likewise, the Xbox 360 cannot display 6.5 billion polygons on
the screen in actual games.


now is where the comparison gets slightly closer - triangle setup. that
is, the setting up of polygons that are getting ready to be rendered on
screen. the PS2 is the more interesting of the two consoles in this
regard. unlike most systems (console, arcade, PC, etc) the PS2 can
actually setup and draw more polygons than it can calculate. because the
Graphics Synthesizer can setup and draw, in theory, a peak of 75 million
polygons per second. because of this, the Emotion Engine which can only
calculate / transform 66M polygons/sec, can never overwhelm the GS chip.
the triangle setup rate being 75 million polygons is very impressive since
it exceeds the amount of polygons that can be calculated. of course, the
GS will never actually setup 75 million because it can only be feed a max
of 66M from the EE.

okay so how many polygons can the Xbox 360 setup? well the triangle setup
rate of the Xenos GPU is 500 million per second. in this regard, Xbox 360
is only 6 or 7 times more powerful than PS2. this is a more realistic
comparison but still not the definitive comparison.

the Xbox 360, according to the old Xenon hardware overview document and
system block diagram should be able to achieve 500 million polygons per
second with hardware effects on, plus some level of pixel shaders. this
is an awesome thing, if it turns out to be true. it has been said that
this is not just some peak theoretical figure, but what the Xbox 360 can
actually achieve in realworld conditions, and in games! the 500 million
polygon performance level for Xbox 360 therefore, should be a more
realistic goal than Xbox1's 300 million / 150 million / 125 million / 116
million polygon performance that MS and Nvidia claimed throughout 2000 and
2001 (as the Xbox GPU spec decreased and decreased closer to launch if you
recall)

whereas, the PS2 would never achieve 75 or even 66 million polygons per
second. the realistic performance that PS2 *has* achieved (in games) is
5, 10, 15 and maybe 20 million polygons per second. imagine that Xbox
360 games start out at 100 million polygons /sec much like PS2 games
started out at 5 million, and that Xbox 360 only reaches 4/5ths of its
max, 400 million polygons /sec. that is just awesome compared to PS2. the
realistic comparison is therefore, Xbox 360 is probably roughly 20 times
more powerful than PS2.

there is not yet enough information to make a comparison with the new
STI-Cell and Nvidia-RSX powered Playstation3, yet. early information
suggests that the Nvidia RSX (PS3 GPU) can calculate a peak of 1.1
billion polygons per second which is less than what Xenos can calculate
(6.5 billion polygons). but what matters more is the setup rate. it is
likely that PS3's RSX will be able to setup more polygons per second than
Xenos can. that is, more than 500 million. I'm waiting for complete
information on RSX to become available. since the RSX is still under
construction, a few more months will have to pass, but not too long since
PS3 is due for release in spring 2006.

at the end of the day, Xbox 360 and PS3 will be very close in actual game
graphics. but I wanted this post to be mainly a comparison of Xbox 360
to our current Playstation2.
 
N

Netcop Retard

That was all incorrect.
If you go to Gaming Age and Beyond 3D and actually talk to a few PS2
developers, they will tell you that the first Jak and Daxter pushed an
average of 7.5 million polygons and peaked around 10 million. Which
equals about 30 million triangles.

That was the FIRST Jak game, the seocond and third pushed nearly 20+
million polygons, or 60+ million triangles.

Who knows what some other games have managed. Grand Prix Challenge from
Melbourne House claims 24+ Million in game.

Before spouting nonsense do a search for the How Far Have We Got PDF
document from Sony. It verifies the 7.5M figure I noted, and that was
with only 8% usage of VU0.
 
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A

Andrew Ryan Chang

Netcop Retard said:
That was all incorrect.
If you go to Gaming Age and Beyond 3D and actually talk to a few PS2
developers, they will tell you that the first Jak and Daxter pushed an
average of 7.5 million polygons and peaked around 10 million. Which
equals about 30 million triangles.

No, a triangle /is/ a polygon. You might be thinking of vertices,
but due to extensive use of triangle strips, which reuse vertices from the
previous triangle for the next one, the vertex to triangle ratio in real
games is much lower than 3 to 1.


followups to rgv.sony
 
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K

Kent Rastin

Netcop said:
That was all incorrect.
If you go to Gaming Age and Beyond 3D and actually talk to a few PS2
developers, they will tell you that the first Jak and Daxter pushed an
average of 7.5 million polygons and peaked around 10 million. Which
equals about 30 million triangles.

That was the FIRST Jak game, the seocond and third pushed nearly 20+
million polygons, or 60+ million triangles.

The most triangles PS2 games are pushing are in the 20 million range.

It can do 65 million untextured, unlit triangles a sec due to the very
high fill rate of the graphics hardware.

If you are talking about console hardware, right now poly is the same as
triangle.
 

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