PC Buying help needed

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I'm in need of a new PC and am unsure what to buy. Have just cancelled an order for a TIME Powerstation as they neglected to tell me about the £1 per min tech support. I've now seen this Compaq one at PC World:

Product Specification
Processor Type AMD Athlon XP+
Processor speed 2080 mhz
RAM Memory 512 mb
Hard Disk Capacity 80 Gb
Drives Fitted DVD/DVD-W+R,+RW, Floppy
Graphics card memory 128 mb
Viewable Screen Size 15'' TFT inches
Operating system XP Home
Software included Yes
Graphics Description GeForce MX 440
CD Speed (CDR, CDRW, CDROM) Not Specified
DVD Speed (DVDR,DVDRW,DVDROM) Not Specified
Modem Yes
No of USB connections 6
No of PCI Slots 3
No of Firewire Sockets 2
Sound Card Int
Speakers Included Yes
TV Tuner Not Specified
Graphics port Not Specified
3D accelerator graphics Yes
Keyboard Yes
Mouse Yes
Weight 11.6 kg
Height 368 mm
Width 173 mm
Depth 419 mm
Onboard LAN No

its £1000 less the 1p! What do you think?
 
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Buying an off the shelf PC is a very confusing business as there are so many things to consder...usually there's always a catch if the price seems particularly low, as you found out with the high tech support costs. Regarding PC World...I personally would never consider buying from them - they're into superstore sales and, as such, their technical knowledge is pretty poor...I have had more than one personal experience of this and know many people who struggled to get technical problems sorted after buying from them.

They advertise as 'stamping down on prices', but this is because they don't put top quality stuff in their systems. All suppliers will say they have things like a GeForce4 video card, for example, but these can either be very good or very cheap (their prices range from £50-£200)...the one they have included in the spec is a GeForce 4 MX...one of the really cheap ones. If you want to play many of the very latest games, this may struggle, and certainly won't handle some of those coming out in the next few months. If you are not interested in games, then the graphics card won't be as important, but therefore you should be able to get a PC that will run everything you need for far less than £1,000.

You need to get the detailed spec on all of the components...If you are not familiar with the general range of components, then I strongly suggest you find someone who is, who can go with you when you buy.

Another thing to be careful of, is the addition of extras like digital cameras, scanners, etc...You can often find these cheaper if bought as seperates...and you'll have a wider choice.

Also, make sure that your supplier allows you to upgrade your machine, e.g. putting in a newer video card or more RAM, without voiding the warranty...the new bits won't be covered by the warranty, but you might want the freedom to upgrade rather than have to buy a whole new machine in another year or two.

I know a few people who have found good quality systems and good technical support from Evesham (Try Evesham.com to look over the specs and play around with prices)...I think these are pretty realistic on prices. There's also a 'Retailer Ratings' link on the right hand side of this page that you could take a look at.

Tell us what you want to be able to use the PC for, and how long you want it to last, and how much your total budget is, then feel free to come back and ask about specific systems and suppliers...I'm sure we'll be glad to give whatever advice we can.

In the spec you have put in your message, there are far too many missing things that are important to know, so it's impossible to tell if it's worth £1,000. e.g. what speed and make of DVD/CD/RW etc, what speed and make of hard drive? etc

One last thing for now...a few days ago, AMD announced big price cuts in all their processors. These won't feed into the market yet, but I would guess that there will be a good price drop on chips like the Athlon XP3000 'Barton' (possibly up to 40%)...might be worth holding fire for a while to see what happens.

Sorry to ramble on, but I have nothing better to do during my lunchbreak at work!
:D :D
 

muckshifter

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NO ... its not worth £1000 ... You could build that for less than £800

There are several things that let this system down ... the bigest being the Motherboard. Its a ComCrap spacific micro MB.

The other Item is the graphics card. :roll:

Good post 1nteger. :D
 
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Ta

Ta for the heads up folks. :bow: I have a budget of £1000 to include a TFT monitor. I want the PC to run Office so that I can use the S/Sheets, D/Bases etc for work. I need it to be compatible with my broadband access. I want to make DVDs and CDs. I also want to be able to play games.

My current PC is from Gateway and one good thing was their freephone tech support as I had a no of probs with my original which was exchanged after 3 engineer visits (over 20 hours of engineer time, 3 m/boards, 4 HDD, 3 CPUs) when they couldn't find the problem. My HDD also went just before the free 3 yr warranty was up so they just shipped me a new one.

I've looked at Evesham but they seem to come up pricier than the store bought computers and I have no idea whether the components are any better.
 

muckshifter

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Nope ... :confused:

Give me an hour ... I'll find something for you.

Where do you live?
 
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One problem here, Pandora, is that many (probably most) of us build our own systems, simply because we know how bad shop-bought PC's can be. They rely on the ignorance of the buyer, and add in some cases build hefty support costs in, knowing that things will fail etc. As an example, the spec you see on my signature below cost me no more than £1000 to put together, but to buy the equivalent from a shop would have cost anything from £1500-£2000 (when I built it...it's depreciated a lot now!). If the system in the shop is under £1000...it probably won't have all top-end components. Evesham might be a little more expensive but they do tend to put slightly better kit in the box, and they are a bit clearer about the detail of the components.

What i suggest is that I'll list here a series of the main components and things to ask for at the shop...basically how close are they to this spec. If you try out a couple of places and then come back to us with responses, perhaps we can guide you to the one that seems most 'honest'.:)

I'm not saying this is the best...someone like Muckshifter will probably suggest changes...but this is the basic spec to look for based on what you said you want to do...

Motherboard: Asus A7N8X (basic one - u don't need the deluxe version) - this includes 6.1 channel sound on board so u don't need a seperate soundcard.

Processor (CPU) AMD Athlon XP2200+ (Probably best bang for your bucks but prices will fall soon and u could get better for less in a couple of weeks or so)

Memory (RAM): 512Mb DDR PC2700 (RAM with a brand name like Samsung is usually more reliable than what's called 'generic'). You could easily do with less...a single 256Mb chip, for example, but the price of this good at the moment, and more never hurts.

Hard drive: A Western Digital 80Gb or 120GB - make sure its a 7200rpm speed. Also, ask if it has an 8Mb or 2Mb cache...8 is faster and preferred nowadays, but 2 is ok. (probably the other best brand to go for is Maxtor).

CD/DVD: Even bog-standard CD writers and re-writers are pretty reliable now...I wouldn't worry too much about brand, but make sure it's pretty fast...say, 48X CD writing and 16X DVD reading. Remember that if you get a single drive that does CD/RW and DVD ROM, if it goes wrong, you have no other way to put CD's in...some people (like me) swear by having seperate drives for CD and DVD...just in case. (If you don't want to play DVD's on ur PC then obviously you can forego that). Make sure your CD writer is 'burn-proof'...can save a heck of a lot of wasted money on blank CD's!!

Video card: This can be the single most expensive part of the whole system...or quite cheap. It really depends on the type of games you want to play. As a good fast but not too expensive card, look for a 128MB GeForce4 Ti4200 (Never accept GeForceMX!!!!!!!). Alternatively, ATI Radeon cards, like the 9000 Pro are very cheap but competent.

Soundcard: Not needed as the onboard sound with the motherboard is excellent now (it's what I use and it's improved on the newer boards). However, if they say the machine has a seperate soundcard, then look for a 'Creative Audigy'...accepted as the best.

Speakers: Creative Labs, Klipsch Promedia, Altec Lansing, Boston Acoustics are names to listen for. A 5.1 or 6.1 surround sound system if ur into hi-fi and DVD or extreme gaming and have room to position them around you; properly; a 2.1 (2 speakers and a sub-woofer) is better if u are limited on space. Reasonably good speakers are not expensive...

Floppy disk...er...any will do.

Mouse and keyboard: This can be very subjective, but many off-the-shelf PC's include crap ones that carry the shop's own logo. A keyboard should be reasonably heavy so it won't move while ur typing. A mouse shouls have at scroll wheel and optical is perhaps preferable to a ball. These are dirt cheap...don't get palmed of with a naff two-button ball mouse and a keyboard that floats or has to be blue-tacked to the desk!

Monitor: Some here will realise I'm not a TFT/LCD fan...they are still too expensive and nowhere near the quality of CRT monitors...especially for games. If, tho', you have limited space, then a TFT is perhaps best...others will have to advise you on the best buy.

Case/Power: External USB/firewire is a thing to look for...don't get taken in by glass panels etc...expensive, pointless unless ur into showing off at LAN parties, and they can remove the EMI shielding. Make sure the pwer supply (PSU) is at least 350W. You could get by with less, but you might want to add some things at a later date.


I may have missed loads of stuff...anyone got anything to add??



:spin:
 

muckshifter

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Cool

8) Baby 8)

... hell what can I add. :bow:

Ah, yes ... the price. Self build for under £800 ... of the shelf, £1000+ However I have seen 'em for £800.

Another good post 1nt' :bow:
 

Quadophile

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Integer,

Your yard long posts have really impressed me! Very good coverage on all things that go into the computer.

I just need to add one thing. You mentioned about the sound card Audigy and I cannot resist the temptation of giving my opinion on that.

As you know I have recently acquired the Intel board D845PEBT2 which has a built-in sound card. I also happen to own the Audigy you mentioned. As you know I am very keen on anything to do with audio I had a comparision of the two spending the entire afternoon.

The result? Audigy was much better than the built in card. The differences were as follows:

Better Dynamics
Good separation of instruments
Low noise
Better clarity

I did this test last week and just a couple of days back when I was downloading the updates for the board I noticed a link on the Intel site "Reviews". Going through one of them I came across the comparision of the boards built-in card with stand alone cards. The reviewer saying that there is no difference, whereas I found the difference to be very much noticeable, even my son noticed it so it cannot be just my ears. Anyway the point I am making is that the stand alone cards still beat the built-in cards (unless they are some cheap ones). Nonetheless the built-in sound cards are pretty good as long as you are using budget priced speakers. If you have Hifi connected to the computer (like my sons humble setup of Nad amplification and Mission speakers) the difference will surely be noticable.

I just thought I'd add this info in support of what you mentioned about the sound cards.
 
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I totally agree Quad, and i am aiming to buy an Audigy plat 2 as soon as i can, along with some nice Creative megaworks speakers8)

But, I still find that my current onboard sound is good enough for general purposes...it's one of those things that when you experience the really good stuff, you never want to go back...I'm just holding off for the really good stuff for a while longer:D ...and I'm not sure how important exceptional quality sound is to Pandora who may just want 'good' sound...saving herself £70-£80 on an Audigy.;)
 

Quadophile

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No I did not mean to suggest that Pandora buy the Audigy but just giving my opinion. Infact to start with folks can use the built-in card and save money for more important things initially and if funds allow only then additions should be considered based on priorities.

Don't hold off too long, jump in and start to have fun with the Audigy Paltinum 2.
 
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Hmmm

1nteger - I really appreciate the time you have taken to post that marathon info-fest for me. I understand some of it but have no idea how I would find out what the PCs I'm looking at contain manufacturer wise nor would I know how to see is a mobo was an Asus A7N8X or a KT400 (nicked name from Dabs!!!)

I know what I want RAM, HDD, Processor and optical storage wise. It's the mobo and graphics cards that get me. To be honest I could probably recommend you (hoping you are a guy here!) a lipstickto buy and it would be as much to you - a name you have heard but no more than that.
 

Quadophile

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Re: Hmmm

Originally posted by Pandora
To be honest I could probably recommend you (hoping you are a guy here!) a lipstickto buy and it would be as much to you - a name you have heard but no more than that.

LOL, Pandora, I like your sense of humour :D
 
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Well, I was hoping to ask you your opinion of L'edjuste Bleu which I undertsand is a brand used by Apaches when going into battle...apparently they favour it because it has UV filters so it offers them some protection and it doesn't clash with their head dresses....waddya think...party-wear or for the office?:D :D

On a rather less serious note...I completely understand your point, Pandora...actually while writing that stuff, I was well aware that it could sound like technobabble and be of little use when buying from a shop. In fact, that's the point - most of the people who try to sell you a computer (especially at PC World) won't understand it either!:confused: I wrote it all so you wouldn't have to remember it.;):spin:

You could print my list of comments and take them with you and simply hand it to the salesperson and say: 'How close to this spec is that PC you're trying to sell me?' or: 'Can you describe this PC in this kind of detail?' If they can, then bring it back to us for comment...if they can't or aren't willing to, then avoid them like the plague they are

:)
 
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Just had a quote

Suntek Full Tower Case
LG 16x40 IDE DVD Rom
AMD Athlon XP 2600+ CPU
Heavy Duty Cooling Fan
Sony 3.5 1.44 Floppy Drive
Maxtor 80Gb 7200rpm IDE Hard Drive
Genius Twin Touch Cordless Keyboard & Mouse
Pioneer DVD-105 IDE DVD Re-writer
512MB PC2700 DDR
Gigabyte 7VAXP Ultra DDR Motherboard
On-Board Network
Geforce 4 TI 4200 128Mb AGP Video Card with TV Out
On board Sound
Microsoft Windows XP Professional OEM
Compact Flash Card Reader
12 Months On-site Warranty with 8 hour Call out.

Items Total £1143.12
VAT £200.05
Total £1343.17

Is it me or is this horribly pricey. It came froma local build to order company recommended to me by a colleague.
 

muckshifter

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To me yes, it is a bit OTT

... but then I'm "in the trade" ... I could do that for under £1000 inc VAT ... AND you'd be getting an 17" Iiyama Vision Master 1403 (LS704U G) 3 Year Warranty - FST - 0.28dp - 1024x768@85hz

However, the spec you've quoted there is what your after, you could drop the DVD-RW (could save £200) and opt for a Lite-On CDRW instead.

Keep that spec sheet and shop around a little more ... they are out there.

Good hunting.
Mucks
 
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I rather fancy a DVD-RW. I have a CD-RW already.

Thing about build to order I asked these for a quote as they have been recommended. I dunno who is decent and who is dodgy. I'm in wolverhampton - hardly a technical hotbed!!!
 
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SYSPRECFGA1 Choose your own system (AMD processor based)
£102.32
CPUAMDTHB24 AMD AthlonXP PR2400+ (OEM) Thoroughbred 1
£67.98
RAMDDRB512ORG 512Mb DDR (PC2700) 333 1
£44.22
HDDMXT060GB72 60Gb Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 7200rpm 1
£54.07
VGAATIRAD9KRTL 64Mb ATI Radeon 9000 Atlantis RTL (Sapphire) 1
£45.54
CDRTSBDVD1648 Toshiba x16 x48 DVD-ROM (OEM - No Software) 1
£26.68
CDRSNYCRX220A 52x24x52x Sony CDRW Retail CRX220A 1
£41.56
SOFTMSF1 Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition OEM 1
£59.31
ASSEMBLY1 System Assembly (build, O/S Install & test) 1
£35.00
Subtotal £476.68
VAT £83.43
Total

This is CCL. No idea of mobo. Just went for a mid price graphics card as I have no clue. Have heard some dodgy reports about CCL esp not providing manuals, software and underclocking processors - and I would have no clue if anyone did that across me.
 

muckshifter

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Have heard some dodgy reports about CCL esp’ not providing manuals, software and under clocking processors - and I would have no clue if anyone did that across me.
I have dealt with CCL for 4 years now ... believe me, they ARE a very good reputable company. :bow:

Their main-stay motherboard is the Soltek SLKT400-A4 (DDR M/Board) 6 Chn Audio / DDR400 / USB 2.0 / 4X AGP / 333 FSB … they also do Asus & MSI both dam good boards.

I'll stick my neck out here ... Give 'em a ring 0845 3452511 tell 'em D-D (thats dee dee) sent you from Helpdesk and you would like some more details on your system. I'm sure they would be more than helpful ... if not, then they'll loose two "customers". ;)
 

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