pasting from clipboard, pp2003 vs pp2007

[cfortran]

I generate graphs on a remote computer using some thin client software
to display the results on my screen. Using powerpoint 2003, it was
easy to create multiple slides with different graph data. The process
went like this:

1) open powerpoint
2) give graph window focus
3) <ctrl>-<alt>-<printscrn>
4) <alt>-<tab> to powerpoint
5) right-click and paste image from clipboard
6) crop to taste
7) if done, goto 11
8) copy / paste slide
9) switch to graph window, get next graph
10) goto 3
11) done

The graph windows always open in the same screen area, so after the
initial crop / resize I could copy that slide and paste additional
graphs that were already cropped to the same image data and
dimensions. In other words, step 6 only had to be done once...

Powerpoint 2007 changes all that. Now, the images need to be cropped
and resized everytime I paste a new graph. Is there a way to get back
to the old behaviour?

Thanks,

cfortran

 

[Echo S]

Please explain "give graph window focus." Where are the graphs coming from?
What exactly are you switching to when you do the screen grab?

 

[cfortran]

Please explain "give graph window focus." Where are the graphs coming from?
What exactly are you switching to when you do the screen grab?

Thanks for the reply...

The graphs are running on the remote system, they are displayed on my
system. By "give graph window focus" I'm just saying switch to it, so
that it is "on top."

Where the application in the screen capture is coming from is kind of
a red herring. It behaves the same way with 100% local screencaps as
well.

Regards,

--cfortran

 

[Echo S]

Please explain "give graph window focus." Where are the graphs coming
from?
What exactly are you switching to when you do the screen grab?

<quote>
Thanks for the reply...

The graphs are running on the remote system, they are displayed on my
system. By "give graph window focus" I'm just saying switch to it, so
that it is "on top."

Where the application in the screen capture is coming from is kind of
a red herring. It behaves the same way with 100% local screencaps as
well.
</quote>

I can't repro it in 2003, though. Ctrl+Alt+PrintScreen gives me the whole
(active) window both times. It seems you're saying that the screen grab
responded to the cropped area.

The graph windows always open in the same screen area, so after the
initial crop / resize I could copy that slide and paste additional
graphs that were already cropped to the same image data and
dimensions. In other words, step 6 only had to be done once...

But that's not the case here. I followed your steps using an IE window for
step 2 and always got the whole window when I pasted.

Are you using a screengrab program on the 2003 machine that's not been
installed on the 2007 system, maybe? Something like SnagIt or something?

 

[cfortran]

from?
What exactly are you switching to when you do the screen grab?

<quote>
Thanks for the reply...

The graphs are running on the remote system, they are displayed on my
system. By "give graph window focus" I'm just saying switch to it, so
that it is "on top."

Where the application in the screen capture is coming from is kind of
a red herring. It behaves the same way with 100% local screencaps as
well.
</quote>

I can't repro it in 2003, though. Ctrl+Alt+PrintScreen gives me the whole
(active) window both times. It seems you're saying that the screen grab
responded to the cropped area.

The graph windows always open in the same screen area, so after the
initial crop / resize I could copy that slide and paste additional
graphs that were already cropped to the same image data and
dimensions. In other words, step 6 only had to be done once...

But that's not the case here. I followed your steps using an IE window for
step 2 and always got the whole window when I pasted.

Are you using a screengrab program on the 2003 machine that's not been
installed on the 2007 system, maybe? Something like SnagIt or something?

--
Echo [MS PPT MVP]http://www.echosvoice.com
What's new in PPT 2007?http://www.echosvoice.com/2007.htm
Fixing PowerPoint Annoyanceshttp://tinyurl.com/36grcd
PowerPoint 2007 Complete Makeover Kithttp://tinyurl.com/32a7nx

I'm not using any third party software to make the capture...

You are correct in that ctrl-alt-printscrn will copy the whole active
window. When I paste it the first time into powerpoint (either
version) it clobbers the slide. I have to use the crop tool to only
select the portions I want to show and then move it to where I want it
on the slide (scaling up or down as needed. Note that I will want to
show the same selection for every graph, ie, the same cropped area.)
Then I can copy the slide, switch back to the graph window, hit 'next'
on it to display the next graph, ctrl-alt-printscrn again. When I
switch to powerpoint2003 I then right-click the duplicate slide in the
image field (that contains the previous slides graph) and select
paste.

This is where the discrepancies occur: in pp2003 the entire screencap
is pasted, but only the previously cropped parts will show. In other
words, I can use the crop tool again and widen the field of view on
the pasted image to see the whole captured window. But by default, it
shows just what I have already selected in the previous slide. In
pp2007, the whole window is pasted without the constraints on the
field of view that I selected by cropping the previous slide.

I hope I am being clear.

Thank you once again,

--cfortran

 

[Echo S]

--
Echo [MS PPT MVP] http://www.echosvoice.com
What's new in PPT 2007? http://www.echosvoice.com/2007.htm
Fixing PowerPoint Annoyances http://tinyurl.com/36grcd
PowerPoint 2007 Complete Makeover Kit http://tinyurl.com/32a7nx

On Mar 18, 10:37 am, "Echo S" <[email protected]>
wrote:> Please explain "give graph window focus." Where are the graphs
coming

from?
What exactly are you switching to when you do the screen grab?

<quote>
Thanks for the reply...

The graphs are running on the remote system, they are displayed on my
system. By "give graph window focus" I'm just saying switch to it, so
that it is "on top."

Where the application in the screen capture is coming from is kind of
a red herring. It behaves the same way with 100% local screencaps as
well.
</quote>

I can't repro it in 2003, though. Ctrl+Alt+PrintScreen gives me the whole
(active) window both times. It seems you're saying that the screen grab
responded to the cropped area.

The graph windows always open in the same screen area, so after the
initial crop / resize I could copy that slide and paste additional
graphs that were already cropped to the same image data and
dimensions. In other words, step 6 only had to be done once...

But that's not the case here. I followed your steps using an IE window for
step 2 and always got the whole window when I pasted.

Are you using a screengrab program on the 2003 machine that's not been
installed on the 2007 system, maybe? Something like SnagIt or something?

--
Echo [MS PPT MVP]http://www.echosvoice.com
What's new in PPT 2007?http://www.echosvoice.com/2007.htm
Fixing PowerPoint Annoyanceshttp://tinyurl.com/36grcd
PowerPoint 2007 Complete Makeover Kithttp://tinyurl.com/32a7nx

<quote>
I'm not using any third party software to make the capture...

You are correct in that ctrl-alt-printscrn will copy the whole active
window. When I paste it the first time into powerpoint (either
version) it clobbers the slide. I have to use the crop tool to only
select the portions I want to show and then move it to where I want it
on the slide (scaling up or down as needed. Note that I will want to
show the same selection for every graph, ie, the same cropped area.)
Then I can copy the slide, switch back to the graph window, hit 'next'
on it to display the next graph, ctrl-alt-printscrn again. When I
switch to powerpoint2003 I then right-click the duplicate slide in the
image field (that contains the previous slides graph) and select
paste.

This is where the discrepancies occur: in pp2003 the entire screencap
is pasted, but only the previously cropped parts will show. In other
words, I can use the crop tool again and widen the field of view on
the pasted image to see the whole captured window. But by default, it
shows just what I have already selected in the previous slide. In
pp2007, the whole window is pasted without the constraints on the
field of view that I selected by cropping the previous slide.

I hope I am being clear.

Thank you once again,

--cfortran

Then I can copy the slide, switch back to the graph window, hit 'next' on
it to display the next graph

See, this is what I don't understand. I'm not sure what you're grabbing. I'm
not sure it matters, but, well...read further....

And I still can't reproduce it, although now I'm right-clicking into the
existing cropped image area and not just randomly on the slide.

Honestly, it seems odd to me that pasting a screengrab of an active window
will let you paste a subsection of that window into the "cropped area" of
the image on a copy of the slide. I mean, I think I understand what you're
doing. But I don't understand what the graph window is, and I keep thinking
it matters somehow.

See, when you paste various objects into PPT, you get various objects back.
I know that doesn't make sense. For example, if you select an Excel
chart and paste it into PPT, you get the whole Excel workbook by default. If
you copy an image in Photoshop and paste into PPT, you get an embedded OLE
object -- a picture you can double-click and edit in Photoshop (from within
PPT).

That's the way it is with PPT 2003, anyway. The default paste behavior for
various items in 2007 has changed somewhat. I keep thinking this is probably
what's causing the difference you're seeing, but I still can't figure out
why you'd be able to paste into the cropped area of a screenshot,
regardless. That's why I'm wondering if some kind of screengrab or paste
utility is involved.

So, back to the Photoshop example. In 2003, if I open a JPG in Photoshop,
Ctrl+A to select all, Ctrl+C to copy, and then Edit | Paste Special in PPT,
I get "Adobe Photoshop Image Object" as the first thing in the list.
Generally, the default paste behavior for an object is whatever the first
thing in the Paste Special dialog is. Therefore, if I had just used Ctrl+V
or right-clicked to paste the copied image on the slide, I would have gotten
an Adobe Photoshop Image Object -- an OLE object -- by default.

In PPT 2007, this might be different. (I'd have to install Photoshop on this
system to tell for sure.)

In PPT 2003, if I copy an Excel chart and then check Paste Special in PPT, I
get Microsoft Office Excel Chart Object -- an OLE object (an embedded
workbook). In PPT 2007, I get Microsoft Office Graphic Object -- just a
chart, not the entire workbook. So the default paste behavior is different
in the two versions. And I can see this if I actually just perform the
paste. Each object pastes as I'd expect, based on the top option in Paste
Special.

The reason I keep going on about this is because your ability to paste into
the cropped area acts rather like an OLE object in 2003 as opposed to a
simple screenshot, and that has me thoroughly stumped. I know this doesn't
help you resolve the issue, but maybe it helps explain why I'm asking some
of the things I'm asking.

If you choose Paste Special in 2003 during this process, what shows up? What
about in 2007? (In 2003, it's Edit | Paste Special. In 2007, it's the arrow
on the bottom half of the Paste button on the Home tab.)

Hopefully others will have some ideas and chime in as well.

 

[cfortran]

Then I can copy the slide, switch back to the graph window, hit 'next' on
Think of the graph window like a web browser in which you can hit the
'back' button to get back to the page you were just at. Initially I
copy that window and then 'crop' it down to the data area. Then I hit
the next button and the data area changes inside the graph window.

What may be causing some confusion is what the 'crop' feature does. It
doesn't actually remove image data when you grab the border and yank
it around. It doesn't slice the undisplayed areas off the image until
you use something like 'compress pictures.' When I paste additional
images into pp2003, it doesn't pre-crop them in the sense that the
only image data available to me is what I had preselected. The entire
window that is captured is available to me, all I have to do to view
it is to use the 'crop' feature and drag the border of the image out.

However, it is pre-cropped in the sense that--for all subsequent
pastes into the copied slide--the viewable selection is already
narrowed down to the data area.

Example: open a web browser. go to google. take screen cap. paste into
pp2003. use crop tool to only make the page window viewable (not the
browser controls, address bar, etc). copy slide. do a google search.
take screen cap. right click into already cropped image field in slide
2. paste.

The result should be an image that has all the data of a ctrl-alt-
printscrn. But it will only 'show' the google search results page, not
the browser controls, etc. I can 'widen' the field of view by going to
the crop tool and pulling the borders of the image wider.

If you choose Paste Special in 2003 during this process, what shows up? What
about in 2007? (In 2003, it's Edit | Paste Special. In 2007, it's the arrow
on the bottom half of the Paste button on the Home tab.)

When I go to paste special I get options for 'device independent
bitmap' and 'bitmap'. Neither I'm afraid makes any difference in the
problem.

I've verified this behaviour on multiple systems here at the office.
They are fairly homogeneous but none have (so far as I can tell) any
software to ease the processing of screen captures.

Thank you for your time,

--cfortran

 

[Echo S]

However, it is pre-cropped in the sense that--for all subsequent
pastes into the copied slide--the viewable selection is already
narrowed down to the data area.

Example: open a web browser. go to google. take screen cap. paste into
pp2003. use crop tool to only make the page window viewable (not the
browser controls, address bar, etc). copy slide. do a google search.
take screen cap. right click into already cropped image field in slide
2. paste.

The result should be an image that has all the data of a ctrl-alt-
printscrn. But it will only 'show' the google search results page, not
the browser controls, etc. I can 'widen' the field of view by going to
the crop tool and pulling the borders of the image wider.

Thanks for the clear example. This is what I understood you to be
describing, but I simply cannot reproduce it here. My second screengrab
pastes the whole thing, and I see the whole thing and have to re-crop. It
doesn't limit what I see to just the cropped area.

I don't know why, though. Hopefully someone else will come in with some
ideas.

When I go to paste special I get options for 'device independent
bitmap' and 'bitmap'. Neither I'm afraid makes any difference in the
problem.

Okay, thanks for checking.

I've verified this behaviour on multiple systems here at the office.
They are fairly homogeneous but none have (so far as I can tell) any
software to ease the processing of screen captures.

Really hoping someone else has thoughts here, because I'm stumped. I just
can't get the same behavior here.

Oh, wait. You're not pasting into a placeholder and cropping it, are you?

 

[cfortran]

Thanks for the clear example. This is what I understood you to be
describing, but I simply cannot reproduce it here. My second screengrab
pastes the whole thing, and I see the whole thing and have to re-crop. It
doesn't limit what I see to just the cropped area.

That's not very encouraging...

I don't know why, though. Hopefully someone else will come in with some
ideas.


Okay, thanks for checking.


Really hoping someone else has thoughts here, because I'm stumped. I just
can't get the same behavior here.

Oh, wait. You're not pasting into a placeholder and cropping it, are you?

I don't know what you mean by placeholder... I'm pasting directly into
a slide.

I guess that I'm going to see if my company can load office 2003 for
me. Hopefully the expected behaviour will return.

It's kind of a shame. I can see where the new layout has promise,
although it sure is frustrating in the short term.

Regards,

--cfortran

 

[Echo S]

Oh, wait. You're not pasting into a placeholder and cropping it, are you?

<quote>
I don't know what you mean by placeholder... I'm pasting directly into
a slide.

I guess that I'm going to see if my company can load office 2003 for
me. Hopefully the expected behaviour will return.

It's kind of a shame. I can see where the new layout has promise,
although it sure is frustrating in the short term.
</quote>

A placeholder is where it says "click to add." After I posted, I tried it
here. Yes, that's the piece I was missing in your steps.

So, when I pasted onto the slide, I made sure to right-click the slide
placeholder and paste the screengrab into it. Then once I crop, it holds its
"cropped area" as you described -- so when I past another full-screen image
into it, only the cropped area shows.

This may also happen if you have the automatic layout for inserted objects
selected in Tools | Options. You do need to be using a slide layout that
has a content/text/whatever placeholder of some sort.

Anyway, now I can repro the behavior in 2003. And you are right (you knew
that!) that it works differently in 2007, even if you paste directly into
the placeholder. I thought maybe it would work there if you used a picture
placeholder instead of a text or content placeholder, but it doesn't. I
don't know if the difference is how the placeholders work or how the crop
tool works, though. (I suspect it's the placeholders -- they're much
different in 2007 than 2003.)

I think you will need to keep 2003 around for your workflow.

 

[cfortran]

Oh, wait. You're not pasting into a placeholder and cropping it, are you?

<quote>
I don't know what you mean by placeholder... I'm pasting directly into
a slide.

I guess that I'm going to see if my company can load office 2003 for
me. Hopefully the expected behaviour will return.

It's kind of a shame. I can see where the new layout has promise,
although it sure is frustrating in the short term.
</quote>

A placeholder is where it says "click to add." After I posted, I tried it
here. Yes, that's the piece I was missing in your steps.

So, when I pasted onto the slide, I made sure to right-click the slide
placeholder and paste the screengrab into it. Then once I crop, it holds its
"cropped area" as you described -- so when I past another full-screen image
into it, only the cropped area shows.

This may also happen if you have the automatic layout for inserted objects
selected in Tools | Options.  You do need to be using a slide layout that
has a content/text/whatever placeholder of some sort.

Anyway, now I can repro the behavior in 2003. And you are right (you knew
that!) that it works differently in 2007, even if you paste directly into
the placeholder. I thought maybe it would work there if you used a picture
placeholder instead of a text or content placeholder, but it doesn't. I
don't know if the difference is how the placeholders work or how the crop
tool works, though. (I suspect it's the placeholders -- they're much
different in 2007 than 2003.)

I think you will need to keep 2003 around for your workflow.

--
Echo [MS PPT MVP]http://www.echosvoice.com
What's new in PPT 2007?http://www.echosvoice.com/2007.htm
Fixing PowerPoint Annoyanceshttp://tinyurl.com/36grcd
PowerPoint 2007 Complete Makeover Kithttp://tinyurl.com/32a7nx

At least I know I'm not crazy!

It really is unfortunate that the behaviour has changed. All of the
power users at my company use that particular feature of pp2003 very
heavily. I am the first to be issued a machine with Office 2007
installed. IT may have to rethink their plans.

Thank you for your help.

--cfortran