Paging File on Second HDD

[ReadyFreddie]

Because of the economy, I'm forced to keep using a vintage PC - 1.8GHz P4,
512MB RAM, 40GB HDD, and Windows XP Home Edition. The HDD is only about half
full.

It is an old workhorse and I'd like to try improving its performance a bit
if possible. Would I gain anything at all by installing a second hard drive
(surplus from another PC) and moving the paging file from the C: drive to the
second one? If yes, would it be best to I let Windows continue to manage
virtual memory, or could I specify a paging file size myself and squeeze a
little more out of this poor old nag?

Is there anything else I could move to the second drive to get even a
smidgen improvement in performance? -Thanks!

 

[smlunatick]

Because of the economy, I'm forced to keep using a vintage PC - 1.8GHz P4,
512MB RAM, 40GB HDD, and Windows XP Home Edition. The HDD is only about half
full.

It is an old workhorse and I'd like to try improving its performance a bit
if possible. Would I gain anything at all by installing a second hard drive
(surplus from another PC) and moving the paging file from the C: drive tothe
second one? If yes, would it be best to I let Windows continue to manage
virtual memory, or could I specify a paging file size myself and squeeze a
little more out of this poor old nag?

Is there anything else I could move to the second drive to get even a
smidgen improvement in performance?  -Thanks!

You are better replacing the the 40GB hard drive with a larger one.
Most hard drive can be cloned to another larger one with little
effort. Most hard drive manufacturers provide a software tool to do
this.

It slows down too much a XP if the paging file is on a different
drive.

 

[Gerry]

ReadyFreddie

Are the read / write speeds for each drive the same?

It would best if you partitioned the second drive. Create two
partitions. The first say 1.5 gb to take your page file and the second
should take up the remainder of the drive. You should retain a fixed 50
mb min = max pagefile on the first hard drive. You should not put any
other files in the dedicated pagefile partition and I would make it a
1.4 gb min = max pagefile. Doing it the way I have suggested should
ensure both pagefiles are contiguous and they will be maintenance free.

Leave the Windows and programme files on the first drive. Apart from
these you can move as many of the other files as you want to the second
drive. Your objective you be to ensure that you have always a minimum of
20 / 25% free disk space on each drive.

There are many other options for increasing free disk space on a Windows
partition if you have another partition / drive.

The default allocation to System Restore is 12% on your C partition
which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right click your My
Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore. Place the cursor
on your C drive select Settings but this time find the slider and drag
it to the left until it reads 700 mb and
exit. When you get to the Settings screen click on Apply and OK and
exit.

Another default setting which could be wasteful is that for temporary
internet files, especially if you do not store offline copies on disk.
The default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to
offline copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer
select Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files,
Settings to make the change. At the same time look at the number of days
history is held.

The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. Change to
5%, which should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor
on your Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and
move the slider from 10% to 5%. However, try to avoid letting it get
too full as if it is full and you delete a file by mistake it will
bypass the Recycle Bin and be gone for ever.

Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp to
Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet Files. Also
select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
Restore point. Run Disk Defragmenter.

Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, System
Information, Tools, Dr Watson and verify that the box before "Append to
existing log" is NOT checked. This means the next time the log is
written it will overwrite rather than add to the existing file.

The default maximum size setting for Event Viewer logs is too large.
Reset the maximum for each log from 512 kb to 128 kb and set it to
overwrite.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308427/en-us

You can generate more space in the system partition by relocation of
folders.

For Temporary Internet Files select Start, Control Panel, Internet
Options, Temporary Internet Files. Settings, Move Folder.

To move the Outlook Express Store Folder select in Outlook Express
Tools, Options, Maintenance, Store Folder, Change.
http://www.tomsterdam.com/insideoe/files/store.htm

How to Change the Default Location of the My Documents Folder:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=310147

You may also need to change Default File locations in the Microsoft
Office programmes you choose to move the My Documents folder. For Word
go to Tools, Options, File Locations, highlight Documents, click on
Modify and change file path. For Excel go to Tools, Options, General
and change default file path.

My Documents is one of a number of system created Special Folders
including My Pictures and My Music. These can more easily be relocated
using Tweak Ui. Download TweakUI, one of the MS powertoys, from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp

In TweakUi select My Computer, Special Folders. You can scroll down to
see the full list of Special Folders to the left of the Change
Location button.

You can move programmes but to do this you have to uninstall and
reinstall.

--
Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Leonard Grey]

My 6.5 year old PC is not significantly more impressive than yours, and
it plays Windows XP like a fiddle. (It's quick.)

You /can/ install a second hard drive and move your page file there. If
the second drive is accessed less frequently than the main drive, you
will attain some improvement in performance. But you're likely to need
sophisticated electronic equipment to measure the improvement, because
you won't notice any difference. I did the very same thing when I bought
a second hard drive, and I didn't perceive a damn bit of difference.

I always let Windows manage virtual memory. It's the best way, unless
you have a particular need.

FWIW: Here's how I keep my baby running fast (and smooth):

First, I run a lean configuration. Most people would laugh if they saw
how little I have starting with Windows. Also, I eschew eye candy. (I
can't wait to turn off that glass-y interface in the next version of
Windows.)

Second, I keep my PC devoid of malware.

Third, I don't screw around. At least, not with my computer. I only run
my software in the manner it is supported. And I prepare carefully
before I make changes or add updates.

And that's it. I don't make extraordinary efforts to maintain my
computer, like daily defragging or surgical cache cleaning.

Naturally, my PC doesn't run like it has an i7 in it. But I can go from
pushing the power button to the Welcome Screen in less than 30 seconds,
and from there to a ready-to-work desktop is less than 30 seconds, and
with one exception, applications start inside of a second. The exception
is my video editing software (Pinnacle Studio 12 Plus), which takes a
few seconds to open. But then, my config just barely meets its
recommended requirements so I should consider myself lucky that it works
at all.

 

[Gerry]

smlunatick

"It slows down too much a XP if the paging file is on a different
drive."

I do no want to start a prolonged debate but this statement by you is
highly argumentative. Your point is more relevant if the pagefile is in
a second partition on the first drive.

--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[ReadyFreddie]

Wow, what a nice bunch of responses! Thanks, all of you. I'll read your
suggestions at greater length tomorrow. I had triple heart bypass surgery
about 5 weeks ago so I'm gaining strength back slowly. But I caught a cold
yesterday and feel terrible. What's next? But again, thank you all for your
help.

 

[Sprockets1440]

Interesting ideas about a paging file which I tried.

I always thought a paging file on a 2nd physical HD was better than
leaving it on the C Drive with Programs and WinXP OS.

ReadyFreddie

Are the read / write speeds for each drive the same?

It would best if you partitioned the second drive. Create two
partitions. The first say 1.5 gb to take your page file and the second
should take up the remainder of the drive. You should retain a fixed 50
mb min = max pagefile on the first hard drive. You should not put any
other files in the dedicated pagefile partition and I would make it a
1.4 gb min = max pagefile. Doing it the way I have suggested should
ensure both pagefiles are contiguous and they will be maintenance free.

So you are saying the 2nd physical hard drive should be partitioned
with a 50mb min, 50mb max for the first(?) and the second with a set
number or should windows manage the file size automatically on it?

Does this mean using the 2nd drive as a pagefile system only? Or can
Temp Internet files be put there too in a folder? Or should Temp
Internet files be on another HD?

Leave the Windows and programme files on the first drive. Apart from
these you can move as many of the other files as you want to the second
drive. Your objective you be to ensure that you have always a minimum of
20 / 25% free disk space on each drive.

More than that free space on the C drive here.

There are many other options for increasing free disk space on a Windows
partition if you have another partition / drive.

The default allocation to System Restore is 12% on your C partition
which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right click your My
Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore. Place the cursor
on your C drive select Settings but this time find the slider and drag
it to the left until it reads 700 mb and
exit. When you get to the Settings screen click on Apply and OK and
exit.

I found out System Restore was on Monitoring all my HD's even the
External USB HD's. So I turned off System Restore on all drives except
the Crive. Seems to have quieted things down a bit.

Another default setting which could be wasteful is that for temporary
internet files, especially if you do not store offline copies on disk.
The default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to
offline copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer
select Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files,
Settings to make the change. At the same time look at the number of days
history is held.

Yes TIF and History days can get too large, these are set to lower
amounts too.

Is the TIF and History kept separately? If you move the TIF does this
include History files too?

The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. Change to
5%, which should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor
on your Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and
move the slider from 10% to 5%. However, try to avoid letting it get
too full as if it is full and you delete a file by mistake it will
bypass the Recycle Bin and be gone for ever.

Recycle Bin size has been reduced.

Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp to
Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet Files. Also
select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
Restore point. Run Disk Defragmenter.

Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, System
Information, Tools, Dr Watson and verify that the box before "Append to
existing log" is NOT checked. This means the next time the log is
written it will overwrite rather than add to the existing file.

The default maximum size setting for Event Viewer logs is too large.
Reset the maximum for each log from 512 kb to 128 kb and set it to
overwrite.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308427/en-us

You can generate more space in the system partition by relocation of
folders.

For Temporary Internet Files select Start, Control Panel, Internet
Options, Temporary Internet Files. Settings, Move Folder.

To move the Outlook Express Store Folder select in Outlook Express
Tools, Options, Maintenance, Store Folder, Change.
http://www.tomsterdam.com/insideoe/files/store.htm

How to Change the Default Location of the My Documents Folder:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=310147

You may also need to change Default File locations in the Microsoft
Office programmes you choose to move the My Documents folder. For Word
go to Tools, Options, File Locations, highlight Documents, click on
Modify and change file path. For Excel go to Tools, Options, General
and change default file path.

My Documents is one of a number of system created Special Folders
including My Pictures and My Music. These can more easily be relocated
using Tweak Ui. Download TweakUI, one of the MS powertoys, from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp

In TweakUi select My Computer, Special Folders. You can scroll down to
see the full list of Special Folders to the left of the Change
Location button.

You can move programmes but to do this you have to uninstall and
reinstall.

--
Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks Gerry for the ideas.and Readyfreddie for bringing up this info.

Sprockets

 

[peter]

I would like to add that adding RAM is fairly inexpensive nowadays and that
would
help improve the speed of the system
peter

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

Interesting ideas about a paging file which I tried.

I always thought a paging file on a 2nd physical HD was better than
leaving it on the C Drive with Programs and WinXP OS.



So you are saying the 2nd physical hard drive should be partitioned with a
50mb min, 50mb max for the first(?) and the second with a set number or
should windows manage the file size automatically on it?

Does this mean using the 2nd drive as a pagefile system only? Or can Temp
Internet files be put there too in a folder? Or should Temp Internet files
be on another HD?




More than that free space on the C drive here.

I found out System Restore was on Monitoring all my HD's even the External
USB HD's. So I turned off System Restore on all drives except the Crive.
Seems to have quieted things down a bit.


Yes TIF and History days can get too large, these are set to lower amounts
too.

Is the TIF and History kept separately? If you move the TIF does this
include History files too?



Recycle Bin size has been reduced.
Thanks Gerry for the ideas.and Readyfreddie for bringing up this info.

Sprockets

If the pagefile is moved to another drive, it doesn't matter if it is in a
partition or not, as long as there is space enough.

However, Windows still likes to see a pagefile within it's own partition, so
it is best to set at least 300mb for the purpose

 

[Leonard Grey]

<see below>
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

If the pagefile is moved to another drive, it doesn't matter if it is in
a partition or not, as long as there is space enough.

However, Windows still likes to see a pagefile within it's own
partition, so it is best to set at least 300mb for the purpose

Mike is correct, of course, and that's something I forgot to mention: If
you do move your paging file, leave a minimal page file on the hard disk
where Windows is installed. Mike suggested 300 MB, which is fine, but it
could be less than that.

The residual page file (Windows will create one if you don't) is for
storing memory dumps when you crash. The minimum size for a memory dump
is 2 MB, and the maximum size is equal to the amount of installed RAM.

If you hardly ever crash (gloat, gloat) then go for a minimal size. On
the other hand, if you enjoy reading memory dumps and you can understand
all that gobbledygook...what are you doing in this newsgroup?

 

[Gerry]

Peter

With an older computer adding RAM can be non-productive. The
determining factor is what is the bottleneck holding back improvements
to system performance. Commonly it is the CPU and if this is so adding
RAM makes no material difference. To replace the CPU involves replacing
the motherboard and the cost starts to approach that of a new computer.
That RAM can be fairly inexpensive, if you can get suitable RAM, ceases
to be a consideration.

--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[SC Tom]

Peter

With an older computer adding RAM can be non-productive. The determining
factor is what is the bottleneck holding back improvements to system
performance. Commonly it is the CPU and if this is so adding RAM makes no
material difference. To replace the CPU involves replacing the motherboard
and the cost starts to approach that of a new computer. That RAM can be
fairly inexpensive, if you can get suitable RAM, ceases to be a
consideration.

Not necessarily- plenty of MB's support faster CPU's than what the system
came with. And with it being an older PC, a new or used CPU could be picked
up cheap (comparatively speaking).

SC Tom

 

[Gerry]

SC Tom

You need a type of knowledge which most users do not have to be able to
go forward in the way you have indicated.


--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[SC Tom]

SC Tom

You need a type of knowledge which most users do not have to be able to go
forward in the way you have indicated.

This may be true, but it isn't anything the average user can't learn with a
little research. Most of these kinds of things can be learned form THE most
expensive book that's never read- the User Guide

SC Tom

 

[ReadyFreddie]

Wow, this certainly has stirred up a lot of dialog.

As you mention in a subsequent reply to SC Tom, there aren't a lot of folks
around with the depth of knowledge to carry off all these changes. I did
decrease the default allocations for the things you mentioned and did the
other stuff. I may see a slight improvement, but it isn't much (didn't expect
anything to knock my socks off).

I started this on the premise that if I decreased the load on my primary HDD
by moving the paging file to a second drive, I might see a performance
increase. After digesting all the comments, it appears that what I see is
probably all I'm going to get - unless I add RAM, replace the processor/MB,
etc. That's what I wanted to avoid.

I was looking for a quick way to get a little more oomph. I think that's
what I got, thanks to your suggestions Gerry. I increased my primary drive's
free space by about 4MB - not bad at all. It appears that all your
suggestions focus on freeing up space on my primary drive, right? From a
novice's perspective, I don't understand why that might improve performance.
Can you elaborate on your recommendations?

Because I don't install HDDs, define partitions, or move data around every
day, I don't really understand completely the things you suggest in your
second paragraph or have a feel for the degree of performance gain I might
see, so I really don't feel comfy trying them. Too much exposure to mistakes
for a novice like me. But thanks for your recommendations.

I freed up a lot of space on my primary drive. Guess I'll have to wait until
my budget permits me to get a new PC. I think that even though I surf the
Web, use email, and do word processing, I'll opt for a gaming-oriented PC
with a powerful graphics card and plenty of memory. Hopefully, the other apps
will be happy.
So Thanks!

 

[Gerry]

ReadyFreddie

The pagefile suggestions will not make a significance difference to
performance. If you add the second hard drive to increase available disk
space. If you do not need extra disk space then leave the pagefile as it
is.

The suggestions regard disk space should have yielded more than 4 mb.
This suggestion alone "The default allocation to System Restore is 12%
on your C partition which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700
mb." should have provided 4 gb extra free disk space.

What are you doing for housekeeping? This will increase performance.

An alternative to Disk CleanUp is cCleaner (freeware) which does a more
thorough job than Disk CleanUp. Disk CleanUp has to be run for each user
profile, whereas cCleaner only needs to be run once.
http://www.ccleaner.com/ccdownload.asp
http://www.ccleaner.com/

With any cleaner you need to proceed with caution. To be safe you
should create a restore point before using cCleaner. cCleaner also
offers backup before removal.

When using cCleaner think twice before checking Autocomplete Form
History under Internet Explorer. You do get a warning but this one has
irritating consequences. You may need to restore your system's
recollection of passwords after use so keep a record off computer so
that they can easily be re-entered.

Leave the Scan for Issues option alone.

cCleaner does not remove restore points. You need to use Disk CleanUp
for this. Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk
CleanUp, More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest
System Restore point. Run Disk Defragmenter.

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Lil' Dave]

Because of the economy, I'm forced to keep using a vintage PC - 1.8GHz P4,
512MB RAM, 40GB HDD, and Windows XP Home Edition. The HDD is only about
half
full.

It is an old workhorse and I'd like to try improving its performance a bit
if possible. Would I gain anything at all by installing a second hard
drive
(surplus from another PC) and moving the paging file from the C: drive to
the
second one? If yes, would it be best to I let Windows continue to manage
virtual memory, or could I specify a paging file size myself and squeeze a
little more out of this poor old nag?

Is there anything else I could move to the second drive to get even a
smidgen improvement in performance? -Thanks!

Move all your personal files/data to the 2nd hard drive immediately. Keep
all personal data in this location forthwith.

Defragment the old hard drive's single partition.

Disable the swapfile, reboot, enable the swapfile (original location),
reboot.

For the swapfile to be of significant speed over the original location, a
number of things must occur for the I/O be faster for the swapfile. Needs a
dedicated partition at the front of the alternate hard drive. The hard
drive for that partition must be as fast or faster than the location where
the original swapfile resides. The bus for that alternate location hard
drive must be capable of dual addressing, that is both the original windows
location and the new swapfile location simultaneously by windows, and that
bus must be as fast or faster than the hard drive used for windows. This
last requirement is only fulfilled by scsi and sata as an alternate bus if
you have ide now.

Isolating the swapfile from the windows hard drive can cut down on
fragmentation around that file region within the file system. That's the
only purpose it serves if all those previously mentioned requirements are
not met.

 

[ReadyFreddie]

Gerry, thanks for your involvement in this discussion. I value your comments
highly. At the outset, one of my speculations was that moving the paging file
and personal files/data to a second HDD would improve overall performance by
reducing the number of read ops, write ops, and related seek ops on my
primary drive. The amount of improvement was a complete unknown.

After all the dialog, it appears that accomplishing this is not a trivial
task and a good part of it is beyond my ability. So.... do you think it's
reasonable (also taking into consideration Lil' Dave's post of 2/1/2009) for
me to conclude that the exposure to making a critical mistake is significant
enough that I should just "leave it alone?"

My other point is that even a significant amount of improvement may not
justify the work required. What do you think about that? Perhaps I should
just sit tight and save for a new PC.

 

[Gerry]

ReadyFreddie

What Lil' Dave's has suggested is another way to achieve a similar
result. Althought I would suggest a slight modification.

You need not introduce a second hard drive to achieve a performance
gain. What it achieves is to give you more disk space and makes use of a
spare hard disk that otherwise would not be used. What is being
suggested is not overcomplicated and would be experience worth gaining
for the future. Unless you learn by taking easy steps you will always be
a novice and most of us aspire to achieving the dizzy heights of
success.

However, to assess how easy it will be I think we need you to answer to
several questions:

1. Is your computer a desktop or a laptop?

2. What is the computer make and model?

3. What is the size, make and model of the spare hard drive?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[ReadyFreddie]

The computer is a Gateway desktop, model on the invoice is simply Performance
1800. I bought it in July 2001. Has Intel P4 1.8GHz processor, 512MB RDRAM
PC800 memory. Primary hard drive is described as 40GB 7M Ultra ATA.

As for the second hard drive, can I get the needed info through software or
do I have to take it out of the PC it's in now and read a label?

If I understand correctly and everything is compatible, is your idea to
reformat and repartition the second drive, then move my personal data and
files to it - freeing up space on my primary drive? In novice terms, how will
that specifically improve my performance?