Overheating please help


A

Atreju

Maybe it is not a huge emergency but my Intel Active Monitor comes up
with warnings when I do some heavy-duty CPU usage. Specifically it is
happening now when I am encoding a DVD. I understand video rendering
is heavy on the CPU but my CPU is a Northwood 3.0 GHz P4 with HT. This
CPU should reduce its own activity to accomodate temperature,
shouldn't it?

Besides that, my motherboard is Intel, and I have plenty of cooling -
In-Win case with a side-vent over the CPU fan, PSU fan, extra chassis
fan.

The CPU zone is being reported at 79°c / 174°F
System Zone 2 is being reported at 147°F

With all the cooling and the fact that the motherboard is Intel (and
therefore, I would assume can reduce CPU cycles to reduce
temperature), shouldn't this not be happening?

I am using DVD Shrink to render an ISO file for burning DVD.

Any advice/thoughts appreciated.

Here is some sysinfo:

CPU(s)
Number of CPUs 2 (1 Physical)

CPU#1 APIC ID = 0
CPU Name Intel Pentium 4
Name Intel Pentium 4
Code Name Northwood
Specification Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Family / Model / Stepping F 2 9
Extended Family / Model 0 0
Brand ID 9
Package mPGA-478
Core Stepping D1
Technology 0.13 µ
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, SSE, SSE2
CPU Clock Speed 2992.4 MHz
Clock multiplier x 15.0
Front Side Bus Frequency 199.5 MHz
Bus Speed 798.0 MHz
L1 Data Cache 8 KBytes, 4-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L1 Trace Cache 12 Kµops, 8-way set associative
L2 Cache 512 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Speed 2992.4 MHz (Full)
L2 Location On Chip
L2 Data Prefetch Logic yes
L2 Bus Width 256 bits

CPU#2 APIC ID = 1
CPU Name Intel Pentium 4 (logical unit)


Mainboard and chipset
Motherboard manufacturer Intel Corporation
Motherboard model D865PERL, AAC40926-205
BIOS vendor Intel Corp.
BIOS revision RL86510A.86A.0075.P15.0404021333
BIOS release date 04/02/2004
Chipset Intel i865P/PE/G/i848P rev. A2
Southbridge Intel 82801EB (ICH5) rev. 2
FSB Select 800 MHz
Performance Mode disabled
Graphic Interface AGP
AGP Status enabled, rev. 3.0
AGP Data Transfert Rate 8x
AGP Max Rate 8x
AGP Side Band Addressing supported, enabled
AGP Aperture Size 64 MBytes

Memory
DRAM Type DDR-SDRAM
DRAM Size 1024 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 199.5 MHz
FSB:DRAM 1:1
CAS# Latency 3.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge 3 clocks
Cycle Time (TRAS) 8 clocks
# of memory modules 2
Module 0 Micron Technology DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 992 MBytes
Module 1 Micron Technology DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 512 MBytes

Software
Windows version Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 1
(Build 2600)
DirectX version 9.0b



---Atreju---
 
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M

Michael Hawes

Atreju said:
Maybe it is not a huge emergency but my Intel Active Monitor comes up
with warnings when I do some heavy-duty CPU usage. Specifically it is
happening now when I am encoding a DVD. I understand video rendering
is heavy on the CPU but my CPU is a Northwood 3.0 GHz P4 with HT. This
CPU should reduce its own activity to accomodate temperature,
shouldn't it?

Besides that, my motherboard is Intel, and I have plenty of cooling -
In-Win case with a side-vent over the CPU fan, PSU fan, extra chassis
fan.

The CPU zone is being reported at 79°c / 174°F
System Zone 2 is being reported at 147°F

With all the cooling and the fact that the motherboard is Intel (and
therefore, I would assume can reduce CPU cycles to reduce
temperature), shouldn't this not be happening?

I am using DVD Shrink to render an ISO file for burning DVD.

Any advice/thoughts appreciated.

Here is some sysinfo:

CPU(s)
Number of CPUs 2 (1 Physical)

CPU#1 APIC ID = 0
CPU Name Intel Pentium 4
Name Intel Pentium 4
Code Name Northwood
Specification Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Family / Model / Stepping F 2 9
Extended Family / Model 0 0
Brand ID 9
Package mPGA-478
Core Stepping D1
Technology 0.13 µ
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, SSE, SSE2
CPU Clock Speed 2992.4 MHz
Clock multiplier x 15.0
Front Side Bus Frequency 199.5 MHz
Bus Speed 798.0 MHz
L1 Data Cache 8 KBytes, 4-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L1 Trace Cache 12 Kµops, 8-way set associative
L2 Cache 512 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Speed 2992.4 MHz (Full)
L2 Location On Chip
L2 Data Prefetch Logic yes
L2 Bus Width 256 bits

CPU#2 APIC ID = 1
CPU Name Intel Pentium 4 (logical unit)


Mainboard and chipset
Motherboard manufacturer Intel Corporation
Motherboard model D865PERL, AAC40926-205
BIOS vendor Intel Corp.
BIOS revision RL86510A.86A.0075.P15.0404021333
BIOS release date 04/02/2004
Chipset Intel i865P/PE/G/i848P rev. A2
Southbridge Intel 82801EB (ICH5) rev. 2
FSB Select 800 MHz
Performance Mode disabled
Graphic Interface AGP
AGP Status enabled, rev. 3.0
AGP Data Transfert Rate 8x
AGP Max Rate 8x
AGP Side Band Addressing supported, enabled
AGP Aperture Size 64 MBytes

Memory
DRAM Type DDR-SDRAM
DRAM Size 1024 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 199.5 MHz
FSB:DRAM 1:1
CAS# Latency 3.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge 3 clocks
Cycle Time (TRAS) 8 clocks
# of memory modules 2
Module 0 Micron Technology DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 992 MBytes
Module 1 Micron Technology DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 512 MBytes

Software
Windows version Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 1
(Build 2600)
DirectX version 9.0b



---Atreju---

Have you checked CPU fan speed? Check for fluff and dust blocking
airflow through cooler. Check PSU fan blowing OK. Do you have other fans,
what case style? 79C is high, does heatsink feel that hot if you touch it?
Mike.
 
D

drg

Atreju said:
Maybe it is not a huge emergency but my Intel Active Monitor comes up
with warnings when I do some heavy-duty CPU usage. Specifically it is
happening now when I am encoding a DVD. I understand video rendering
is heavy on the CPU but my CPU is a Northwood 3.0 GHz P4 with HT. This
CPU should reduce its own activity to accomodate temperature,
shouldn't it?

Besides that, my motherboard is Intel, and I have plenty of cooling -
In-Win case with a side-vent over the CPU fan, PSU fan, extra chassis
fan.

The CPU zone is being reported at 79°c / 174°F
System Zone 2 is being reported at 147°F

With all the cooling and the fact that the motherboard is Intel (and
therefore, I would assume can reduce CPU cycles to reduce
temperature), shouldn't this not be happening?

I am using DVD Shrink to render an ISO file for burning DVD.

Any advice/thoughts appreciated.

Here is some sysinfo:

CPU(s)
Number of CPUs 2 (1 Physical)

CPU#1 APIC ID = 0
CPU Name Intel Pentium 4
Name Intel Pentium 4
Code Name Northwood
Specification Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Family / Model / Stepping F 2 9
Extended Family / Model 0 0
Brand ID 9
Package mPGA-478
Core Stepping D1
Technology 0.13 µ
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, SSE, SSE2
CPU Clock Speed 2992.4 MHz
Clock multiplier x 15.0
Front Side Bus Frequency 199.5 MHz
Bus Speed 798.0 MHz
L1 Data Cache 8 KBytes, 4-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L1 Trace Cache 12 Kµops, 8-way set associative
L2 Cache 512 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Speed 2992.4 MHz (Full)
L2 Location On Chip
L2 Data Prefetch Logic yes
L2 Bus Width 256 bits

CPU#2 APIC ID = 1
CPU Name Intel Pentium 4 (logical unit)


Mainboard and chipset
Motherboard manufacturer Intel Corporation
Motherboard model D865PERL, AAC40926-205
BIOS vendor Intel Corp.
BIOS revision RL86510A.86A.0075.P15.0404021333
BIOS release date 04/02/2004
Chipset Intel i865P/PE/G/i848P rev. A2
Southbridge Intel 82801EB (ICH5) rev. 2
FSB Select 800 MHz
Performance Mode disabled
Graphic Interface AGP
AGP Status enabled, rev. 3.0
AGP Data Transfert Rate 8x
AGP Max Rate 8x
AGP Side Band Addressing supported, enabled
AGP Aperture Size 64 MBytes

Memory
DRAM Type DDR-SDRAM
DRAM Size 1024 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 199.5 MHz
FSB:DRAM 1:1
CAS# Latency 3.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge 3 clocks
Cycle Time (TRAS) 8 clocks
# of memory modules 2
Module 0 Micron Technology DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 992 MBytes
Module 1 Micron Technology DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 512 MBytes

Software
Windows version Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 1
(Build 2600)
DirectX version 9.0b



---Atreju---
#1 check the direction of fans current. If you have too many blowing in
and not enough blowing out you create a 'thermal pocket', hot air
actually pools in areas. Same occurs if you have too much blowing out
and not enough coming in.

#2 check that your ribbons are not obstructing air travel. Be generous
with the wire ties.

I am assuming you used thermal compound.

DRG
 
D

DaveW

Wrong. The "Northwood" P4's do NOT automatically throttle when overheating.
The problem, which I also ran into, is that you probably have the Hyper
Threading turned ON and so the CPU is being overtaxed by doing heavy duty
video work with only half the CPU's cycles. The other half is being used
for your other running processes. And 79 C for a P4 will GREATLY reduce its
life.
I would recommend getting a better CPU cooling unit AND turning off
HyperThreading if you plan on doing much DVD encoding.
 
M

ModeratelyConfused

DaveW said:
Wrong. The "Northwood" P4's do NOT automatically throttle when
overheating.

So, where did you hear this little tidbit?

I would recommend getting a better CPU cooling unit AND turning off
HyperThreading if you plan on doing much DVD encoding.

I've got a 2.8GHz Northwood P4, and have no problem encoding DVDs with
HyperThreading turned on. It rarely passes 40º C during heavy use.


MC
 
A

Atreju

Wrong. The "Northwood" P4's do NOT automatically throttle when overheating.


I believe you are mistaken. According to the datasheet

29864312.pdf titled:

Intel ® Pentium ® 4 Processor with 512-KB
L2 Cache on 0.13 Micron Process and
Intel ® Pentium ® 4 Processor Extreme
Edition Supporting Hyper-Threading
Technology 1
Datasheet

The P4 Northwood DOES feature Netburst, which regulates CPU flow based
on thermal conditions.


---Atreju---
 
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B

BigJim

that is pretty hot I would check the seating of the heatsink sounds like it
is loose.
I would also make sure the case has proper ventilation. Not enclosed in a
shelf with a door etc..
 
J

johns

Is that InWin a steel case? If they are still making steel
cases, there is no way to cool them enough to put a
newer cpu in them. You need an aluminum case with
the big fan in back.

johns
 
D

David Maynard

DaveW said:
Wrong. The "Northwood" P4's do NOT automatically throttle when overheating.

That's going to come as one hell of a surprise to the Intel folks who wrote
the specs.
 
E

Ed Medlin

johns said:
Is that InWin a steel case? If they are still making steel
cases, there is no way to cool them enough to put a
newer cpu in them. You need an aluminum case with
the big fan in back.

johns

It shouldn't matter at all what the case is made of. The main thing is to
get good airflow around the CPU/HSF. The case could be made of lead or
cardboard as far as that goes. Cool air in and hot air out is the ticket.


Ed
 
A

Atreju

It shouldn't matter at all what the case is made of. The main thing is to
get good airflow around the CPU/HSF. The case could be made of lead or
cardboard as far as that goes. Cool air in and hot air out is the ticket.


Ed

Honestly everything seems like it is efficient and setup well. I will
tie away as many more cables as I can but they are not really
obstructing the airflow as far as I can tell.

I am thinking about also manually mounting a server fan inside
pointing right at the CPU toward the back so it will have a really
powerful push. I have some server fans that I soldered molex
connectors to, they work really well, I just have to find a place to
mount it.




---Atreju---
 
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A

Atreju

I modded a case once and cut a hole in the top before that became standard.
SNIP

That's kind of what I had in mind also - I could cut a circular hole
on top just before the PSU and have an upward-blowing fan in there. I
believe this is where a lot of heat is getting trapped. Plus, heat
rises, naturally, so this will alleviate some of the heat
concentration on the underside of the top.

Thanks.


---Atreju---
 
J

johns

There's a good reason the newer case designs are aluminum. Steel is
notorious for holding and not conducting or radiating heat away. I have
probably
100 of the InWin cases in my labs ... all steel .. and
I absolutely cannot cool an AMD 64 cpu in one of
those cases ... and I like the InWin case for P4s up
to the 2.4. Beyond that, no way. The ambient is just
too high in the steel case. Also, those cases won't take
the large rear fan that is needed.

johns
 
D

David Maynard

johns said:
There's a good reason the newer case designs are aluminum. Steel is
notorious for holding and not conducting or radiating heat away. I have
probably

It doesn't matter as the heat is taken out by convection, not conduction or
radiation.
100 of the InWin cases in my labs ... all steel .. and
I absolutely cannot cool an AMD 64 cpu in one of
those cases ... and I like the InWin case for P4s up
to the 2.4. Beyond that, no way. The ambient is just
too high in the steel case.

Also, those cases won't take
the large rear fan that is needed.

*That* is the reason: Insufficient air flow.
 
E

Ed Medlin

David Maynard said:
It doesn't matter as the heat is taken out by convection, not conduction
or radiation.


*That* is the reason: Insufficient air flow.

Thank you David........:) I have an old P3 system in a 1/4" homemade wooden
case.......wander how much heat is radiated out from that........? With me,
good airflow takes some experimentation. This new S775 build has been a bit
challenging. The board layout is quite a bit different from my P4b system. I
found that by removing the top fan I decreased CPU in-die temps by 5-6c. The
only thing I can think of is that it was exhausting some of the incoming air
from the front fans on my Lian Li PC60 before getting to the CPU fan
area......I dunno. I left the hole intact just for some passive heat
removal, but no fan. The rear fan now has much warmer air blowing out too.
These higher temps are just not what I am used to from previous chips. I am
seeing 10-12c hotter idle temps and temps in the high 50s to low 60s max. It
is very stable and nothing changes with even a 20% overclock to 3.6mhz from
3.0. I haven't tried any higher because of the temperature thing, but if I
can get it down a bit I may try a bit more. The CPU is the I-630 2meg L2
cache. MB is Asus P5GDC (I-915). If you have any ideas, throw em at me
David.....

Ed
 
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D

David Maynard

Ed said:
Thank you David........:) I have an old P3 system in a 1/4" homemade wooden
case.......wander how much heat is radiated out from that........? With me,
good airflow takes some experimentation. This new S775 build has been a bit
challenging. The board layout is quite a bit different from my P4b system. I
found that by removing the top fan I decreased CPU in-die temps by 5-6c. The
only thing I can think of is that it was exhausting some of the incoming air
from the front fans on my Lian Li PC60 before getting to the CPU fan
area......I dunno.

I can't see it, of course, but your supposition is sound and short
circuiting case air flow is a common problem. A kind of tunnel effect. Got
a cool wind corridor running from intake to exhaust bypassing the hot
elements in dead zones.

I left the hole intact just for some passive heat
removal, but no fan.

That can be a problem too allowing the rear exhaust to pull from the top
hole rather than across the case.
The rear fan now has much warmer air blowing out too.
These higher temps are just not what I am used to from previous chips. I am
seeing 10-12c hotter idle temps and temps in the high 50s to low 60s max.

Are you comparing on-die thermal diode temps to under socket thermistor, or
processor case, temps? Because on-die temps will always be higher than any
external reading due to the internal die to case thermal resistance.
It
is very stable and nothing changes with even a 20% overclock to 3.6mhz from
3.0. I haven't tried any higher because of the temperature thing, but if I
can get it down a bit I may try a bit more. The CPU is the I-630 2meg L2
cache. MB is Asus P5GDC (I-915). If you have any ideas, throw em at me
David.....

What size is the rear fan? And have you measured case temp around the
processor heatsink? Intel specs call for the heatsink fan inlet temp to be
38C, or less.

Just generically speaking, I'd want a large rear exhaust fan right at the
CPU, an open front inlet (meaning not one of those restrictive stamped
grill disasters) and no other gaping holes to short circuit the cross case
ventilation.
 
E

Ed Medlin

David Maynard said:
I can't see it, of course, but your supposition is sound and short
circuiting case air flow is a common problem. A kind of tunnel effect. Got
a cool wind corridor running from intake to exhaust bypassing the hot
elements in dead zones.



That can be a problem too allowing the rear exhaust to pull from the top
hole rather than across the case.


Are you comparing on-die thermal diode temps to under socket thermistor,
or processor case, temps? Because on-die temps will always be higher than
any external reading due to the internal die to case thermal resistance.


What size is the rear fan? And have you measured case temp around the
processor heatsink? Intel specs call for the heatsink fan inlet temp to be
38C, or less.

Yes. I have a thermistor that I use to monitor case temps on new builds
and it is at 32c.
The rear fan is an 80mm and I took off the guard so it is wide open now.
After running some tests with the top hole covered from the inside with duct
tape, I am seeing much better idle temps and right now while copying an IDE
drive to my SATA raid array (big drive and lots of stuff) I am only seeing
43-44c for processor temps. I think I have it where I feel much better with
the temps. I can't see how the top hole could make that much difference
since the case temps are the same as always, unless it was causing a "dead
air" area around the HSF unit. Thanks much for the suggestions. And btw, the
CPU temps are on-die and read from a pin ("contact" on these since the
processor has no pins) on the processor.


Ed
 
D

David Maynard

Ed said:
Yes. I have a thermistor that I use to monitor case temps on new builds
and it is at 32c.
The rear fan is an 80mm and I took off the guard so it is wide open now.

That's big enough if running toward the higher RPMs. You just can't run
them as quiet as the larger ones because you need the RPMs to get the airflow.
After running some tests with the top hole covered from the inside with duct
tape, I am seeing much better idle temps and right now while copying an IDE
drive to my SATA raid array (big drive and lots of stuff) I am only seeing
43-44c for processor temps. I think I have it where I feel much better with
the temps.

Yeah, that's looks good.
I can't see how the top hole could make that much difference
since the case temps are the same as always,

Depends on where the case temp sensor point is.

People tend to put them smack dab in the middle of a nice large open area
figuring 'dead center' of the case is good 'case temp' but that's not where
potential heat problems will be. Really need to take multiple readings at
all the places where temp matters.
unless it was causing a "dead
air" area around the HSF unit.

Could be. I can't tell without a visual but I'd suggest it probably
eliminated most of the PSU fan's usefulness to case cooling, and the rear
fan to some degree as well, by letting it pull from the blow hole rather
than the case interior and the front vent.
 
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D

drg

I have an intel celeron 2.5g overclocked to 2.67g sitting inside of a
steel case with a plastic shell. With only three fans (one being the
psu fan) my cpu rarely tops 100 degrees F. It's all in the air flow.

P.S. One of the holes I bored in the side to pull air out of the
compartment. The psu blows out a fan in front blows in.

DRG
 

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