OT: Win98se/ME support lifetime extended by Microsoft

[dmac]

I saw sp2 for office xp after posting and thought that may have been what
you were talking about. as far as I can tell xp sp2 is due around 8-2004 for
the masses.

 

[Ben Pope]

I saw sp2 for office xp after posting and thought that may have been what
you were talking about. as far as I can tell xp sp2 is due around 8-2004
for the masses.

Maybe that is what I saw... now that you mention it.

I didn't look at it, I only saw it, if you know what I mean.

Ben

 

[Ian Firth]

now that it's officially extended, hopefully there's good excuse for
games (even LO-MAC in it's current patch state...still a bit iffy) to
keep supporting it.

Go buy a calendar.

 

[Darthy]

OK. I'm not disputing that. My point is that how many of the ones released
say, last month have affected you personally? How many of the ones last
month fixed instabilities and crashes that you had personally?

generally, none... I run a fairly clean machine.

Most of the patches these days are security fixes, not stability fixes.

And some of thse security fixes are fixes for previous fixes... or
reinstall software that was removed "MS Messenger"

You think Win98se has significantly fewer updates that caused instability
than XP last month?

Win98 doesn't get updates anymore... much. Some of those cause
problems...

And I suppose Win98se is much better at USB2 than XP?

Doesn't require a Service Pak to get USB2.0 on a clean Win98 system..
just install the driver. But M$ forced venders to NOT put out USB2.0
support - you MUST have SP1 for that function to work. So yes,
USB2.0 support is a bit better for that- also came before WinXP had
their driver. (SP1)

We're comparing Win98se to WinXP here, not saying that XP is perfect.

Amiga is... (NOT)

 

[McCrack]

Yeah, WinXP sucks at a completly different level. XP does some cool
things (And Im using it right now)... here is the ONLY reason I use
WinXP.

1 - Driver support (win98 driver support is now shit)
2 - Proper Memory support above 512mb.
3 - Proper support for HDs over 130GB
4 - Memory mangement.

Having a stable system is important, new hardware is blowing chunks on
Win98 nowadays. other than that, I prefer the reliablity of Windows98
being easily accessable in case of failure (the way WinXP is not) and
the activation issues.

Here's what I do. Install a hard drive caddy system (I have a Lian-Li
RH27) and then install as many OS's as you like to their own HDD. One
goes down you always have another to use. I have XP, Win98SE and
Mandrake Linux 9.2 all installed to their own HDD and can use all on
the one PC. I have a fourth HDD sitting here but don't know which OS
to go for next. Beos?

 

[J.S.]

Pfff, you all seem to forget XP is based on previous windows versions.
So you would be surprised how many today's hardware will install
correct on win98.
Not to mention the users who are still on older windows versions for
several reasons.
WindowsXP is certainly not the revolutionairy os that is promised for
so long.
In fact it runs not any better then a fine tuned win98 system.

Keep smoking that crack bud. True we all have different experiences but with
today's hardware you want win2k or XP not 98. Its 5 years old now for pete
sake, you wanna take the chance your new hardware isn't used to its full
potential? I'd use 98 on older machines sure, as XP can be a resource hog
comparatively but 98 was never a paragon of stability for me when using it
day in/day out with gaming and other hard core usage. Its memory management
sucks. Got an error? Reboot the machine most likely. The only really truly
stable 98 machines I've ever been around (uptimes in say, 2-4 weeks or more
on avg.) were machines that weren't used for much more than email, solitare,
and web surfing.

B.t.w. i got all windows versions.
Im still waiting for that better os to arrive. :s

Some might say its already here.. aka Linux

J.S.

 

[McCrack]

Some might say its already here.. aka Linux

J.S.

Needs better hardware support before it's there. OpenBSD is probably
better anyway but it's a specialized OS that won't play my games.

 

[Falkentyne]

Keep smoking that crack bud. True we all have different experiences but with
today's hardware you want win2k or XP not 98. Its 5 years old now for pete
sake, you wanna take the chance your new hardware isn't used to its full
potential? I'd use 98 on older machines sure, as XP can be a resource hog
comparatively but 98 was never a paragon of stability for me when using it
day in/day out with gaming and other hard core usage. Its memory management
sucks. Got an error? Reboot the machine most likely. The only really truly
stable 98 machines I've ever been around (uptimes in say, 2-4 weeks or more
on avg.) were machines that weren't used for much more than email, solitare,
and web surfing.

I'll probably get off the lazy pillow and install XP for a dual boot.
But since I also want to build a new system, I might just forgo the
dual boot, get a router and install XP on the new system.

I just don't know if *now* is the time to buy a P4 3.2 HT (not the
EE), or wait until prescott actually starts shipping in volume and see
how that turns out. But whenever STALKER or Half-Life 2 actually
comes out, is when I'll go in both guns blazing.

I haven't been all that impressed with people getting < 50 FPS in the
very latest games on full detail (without FSAA), with 3+ ghz PC's and
R9800 XT's, though if that's a result of crappy programming, (aka Far
Cry, Deux Ex2, Halo), who's to say...

I know of some that are going to simply pass over the miniature heater
known as Prescott and wait for Tejas....



<Gibs> When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament
it is "MonsterKill", In Quake3 it is "Excellent",
in Counter-Strike it is "Kicked by console"

 

[Doug Cox]

Keep smoking that crack bud. True we all have different experiences but with
today's hardware you want win2k or XP not 98.

I even used NT4 as a home system in preference to win98. With DX5 and the
IE4 desktop update you'd be hard pressed to spot the difference. W2K and XP
are even better. Current XP setup was installed about 18 months ago and is
still as stable as a rock.

I've got a screenshot somewhere I took of a win98 BSOD on a virtual PC...

Doug Cox.
Work to ride, Ride to work...

 

[Darthy]

Here's what I do. Install a hard drive caddy system (I have a Lian-Li
RH27) and then install as many OS's as you like to their own HDD. One
goes down you always have another to use. I have XP, Win98SE and
Mandrake Linux 9.2 all installed to their own HDD and can use all on
the one PC. I have a fourth HDD sitting here but don't know which OS
to go for next. Beos?

I was going to suggest BeOS... heheh

Ya know what if really SCREWED about BeOS?! Is that when PALM bought
out BeOS (for their experinced programmers) - they totally screwed up
a chance to something neat!

1 - Make BeOS free... or $20 Per CD that anyone can install as an
upgrade / new system or...

2 - Make BeOS a GNU OS

It WAS an amazing OS, Stable as hell, SIMPLE to use interface without
the bullshit of Windows or Linux. IT WORKED!!!

But fubared support from Be.

If they didn't wanna make money on it, they could have made it
available... thousands of people were using it. Hell, they could have
sold it to Amiga Inc for $100,000.

 

[Darthy]

I just don't know if *now* is the time to buy a P4 3.2 HT (not the
EE), or wait until prescott actually starts shipping in volume and see
how that turns out.

1 - buy an AMD64 today, even the $225 AMD64 3000 (bottom end) is
faster than the P4 3.2... (HT is not the big boost Intel advertises).

2 - Even the $300~400 AMD64s are faster than the P4-EE in many
games... thats about a $600~700 difference in price.

3 - AMD64 mobos go for $120~190.... but Gigabyte and MSI make some
sweet ones at $140~150.... fully loaded.

4 - AMD board should go up to AMD64 3800~4000. P4 currently is at
the end of its life. Especially with the first Prescotts.

5 - Prescott (P5s) are already noted to included an EVEN longer
pipeline - speculation at 30! Meaning, the first ones will be slower
than the P4s.

I haven't been all that impressed with people getting < 50 FPS in the
very latest games on full detail (without FSAA), with 3+ ghz PC's and
R9800 XT's, though if that's a result of crappy programming, (aka Far
Cry, Deux Ex2, Halo), who's to say...

Crappy programming... Unreal2 gets around 100fps on my little $70
AMD2500 (1.83Ghz).

I know of some that are going to simply pass over the miniature heater
known as Prescott and wait for Tejas....

AMD64 - 50watts.

 

[Flow]

Pretty naive since every hardware comes with the needed drivers.Full
potential?
I doubt it.
So what are you smoking?

 

[Flow]

Sure dude i can digup a screenie from bsod at a winxp machine also.
Keep on dreaming,believe what you want.
But first put today's game on both os and see the difference.There is none.
Stable as a rock,well,that's hardware depended.

 

[McCrack]

Sure dude i can digup a screenie from bsod at a winxp machine also.
Keep on dreaming,believe what you want.

Yea so, I can do the same with my Linux install. The fact is that XP
is far more robust than Win98, far more.

 

[McCrack]

I was going to suggest BeOS... heheh

I actually started the download of BeOS yesterday and then cancelled
it because I figured I would hardly use it. I see it's under 300mb so
I may still download it another day. I ended up installing WinME so
now I have Win98SE, WinME, XP and Mandrake 9.2 all on their own HDD's.
Mandrake 9.2 is pissing me off though because it doesn't support the
wheel on my wireless Logitech mouse and when I try to play a music cd
I get no sound but when I startx up the Arts sound module loads and I
get the drum roll sound so my soundcard (Audigy2) is working. I've
looked at all the mixer settings and can't see a problem. I go through
this every time with Linux, so many things just don't work as well as
they do in Windows and all I end up using Linux for is a curiosity
item and some web browsing.

 

[Falkentyne]

Crappy programming... Unreal2 gets around 100fps on my little $70
AMD2500 (1.83Ghz).

Unreal 2 isn't one of the "latest" games, not by far. It's been out
for a year, hasn't it ? Didn't it come out just after DirectX 9 ?

The date of my U2 files say "1/30/2003"
I'm talking about drek like DX2, Halo, and slow (but very pretty) non
drek like Far Cry.

Everyone knows the Unreal engine shines when it's properly programmed.
Splinter Cell was an example of the contrary; I believe one of the
patches fixed up the horrid lighting slowdown problems...
And now Deux Ex2 has taken its place... >_<

AMD64 - 50watts.

I want to see how AMD64 fares with the new PCI express and the DDR2
standards later this year, and the socket format wars....


<Gibs> When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament
it is "MonsterKill", In Quake3 it is "Excellent",
in Counter-Strike it is "Kicked by console"

 

[Ben Pope]

I ended up installing WinME so
now I have Win98SE, WinME, XP and Mandrake 9.2 all on their own HDD's.

Win98se and WinME? Sounds like a waste of a hard drive to me. Practically
the same OS but with a GUI update.

Ben

 

[~misfit~]

Yea so, I can do the same with my Linux install. The fact is that XP
is far more robust than Win98, far more.

XP is stable, no argument. However, I've had installs of 98*SE* that have
been just as stable, and a shit-load faster. Just a few tweaks is all it
takes, fixed swap-file, a few others and it's a damn good OS. Far better
than 98FE or ME. I've even installed 98SE on an nForceII 400 Ultra chipset
mobo with integrated everything, no problems at all. It's been running three
months and not one BSOD.

 

[~misfit~]

I actually started the download of BeOS yesterday and then cancelled
it because I figured I would hardly use it. I see it's under 300mb so
I may still download it another day. I ended up installing WinME so
now I have Win98SE, WinME, XP and Mandrake 9.2 all on their own HDD's.
Mandrake 9.2 is pissing me off though because it doesn't support the
wheel on my wireless Logitech mouse and when I try to play a music cd
I get no sound but when I startx up the Arts sound module loads and I
get the drum roll sound so my soundcard (Audigy2) is working. I've
looked at all the mixer settings and can't see a problem. I go through
this every time with Linux, so many things just don't work as well as
they do in Windows and all I end up using Linux for is a curiosity
item and some web browsing.

Yeah, I had my machine dual-booting XP and Man 9.2 for a while but, even
though I got all my devices working correctly, Man was just a novelty for
me. A few months later I reformatted and claimed the space for XP. What can
I say? I'm a gamer and until there is a viable alternative OS to MS products
for games or games are retro-ported to Linux (like, how could they do that?
I still play a lot of 'older' games) I'm stuck with the Evil Empire.

 

[~misfit~]

Win98se and WinME? Sounds like a waste of a hard drive to me.
Practically the same OS but with a GUI update.

*And* a stability downgrade.