OT: Which is the best DOS-based Disk imaging software?

[Aloke Prasad]

I use Ghost 2003 but that is getting dated. Ghost 10 and TrueImage create
disk images in WinXP, change the MBR and do other nasty things like install
in their own partitions.

All I want is a program that runs from a bootable CD, crates and restores
disk images, including the latest NTFS volumes.

Which program fits the bill?

Thanks.

 

[Anna]

I use Ghost 2003 but that is getting dated. Ghost 10 and TrueImage create
disk images in WinXP, change the MBR and do other nasty things like install
in their own partitions.

All I want is a program that runs from a bootable CD, crates and restores
disk images, including the latest NTFS volumes.

Which program fits the bill?

Thanks.

Aloke:
Assuming your basic interest is basic & direct disk-to-disk cloning -
Symantec's Norton Ghost works just fine in an XP environment, even if it is
"dated" (in the sense that Symantec has released versions 9 & 10).

Using a Ghost 2003 bootable CD you can simply & effectively directly clone
the contents of one HD to another HD for a near-failsafe backup system.
Usually I use the Ghost 2003 bootable floppy disk to undertake cloning
operations but I've used the bootable CD as well. Works just fine.

In terms of direct disk-to-disk cloning operations I find the Ghost 2003
program superior to the Ghost 9 & 10 versions as related to simplicity of
operations and general effectiveness.

If, however, your interest is to create "disk images" on media such as
CD/DVDs and use that type of media for later restoration purposes, then you
might want to look elsewhere for a disk imaging program.

But for direct HD to HD disk cloning operations, using either a Ghost
bootable floppy disk or bootable CD, Ghost 2003 is a fine program. Simple to
use and effective in its results.
Anna

 

[Aloke Prasad]

Aloke:
Assuming your basic interest is basic & direct disk-to-disk cloning -
Symantec's Norton Ghost works just fine in an XP environment, even if it
is "dated" (in the sense that Symantec has released versions 9 & 10).

Using a Ghost 2003 bootable CD you can simply & effectively directly clone
the contents of one HD to another HD for a near-failsafe backup system.
Usually I use the Ghost 2003 bootable floppy disk to undertake cloning
operations but I've used the bootable CD as well. Works just fine.

In terms of direct disk-to-disk cloning operations I find the Ghost 2003
program superior to the Ghost 9 & 10 versions as related to simplicity of
operations and general effectiveness.

If, however, your interest is to create "disk images" on media such as
CD/DVDs and use that type of media for later restoration purposes, then
you might want to look elsewhere for a disk imaging program.

But for direct HD to HD disk cloning operations, using either a Ghost
bootable floppy disk or bootable CD, Ghost 2003 is a fine program. Simple
to use and effective in its results.
Anna

Unfortunately, my interest is imaging disks to external USB hard drives for
the purpose of backing up.

Why do you think that Ghost 2003 is unsuitable for this? I have had
problems in restoring from images of a heavily fragmented drive. These are
bug-fixes that Symantec could easily implement. However, I think that they
are no longer devoting any resources or attention to such an old product,
having chosen to develop their acquisition of DriveImage instead.

Do you think that something better than Ghost 2003 exists for the purpose of
creating images (on DVR-R and USB drives) for "backup" purposes?

 

[Jonny]

I use Ghost 2003 but that is getting dated. Ghost 10 and TrueImage create
disk images in WinXP, change the MBR and do other nasty things like install
in their own partitions.

All I want is a program that runs from a bootable CD, crates and restores
disk images, including the latest NTFS volumes.

Which program fits the bill?

Thanks.

That's odd. DriveImage 7 installed by default in the XP partition. Did not
affect the mbr, or create another partition for its installation or
otherwise. The restore was from its boot CD in a windows PE environment,
that could see removable USB/Firewire drives for access of image files for
restoration, and understands XP's version of NTFS.

 

[Anna]

Unfortunately, my interest is imaging disks to external USB hard drives
for the purpose of backing up.

Why do you think that Ghost 2003 is unsuitable for this? I have had
problems in restoring from images of a heavily fragmented drive. These
are bug-fixes that Symantec could easily implement. However, I think that
they are no longer devoting any resources or attention to such an old
product, having chosen to develop their acquisition of DriveImage instead.

Do you think that something better than Ghost 2003 exists for the purpose
of creating images (on DVR-R and USB drives) for "backup" purposes?

Aloke:
You misunderstood my response. Ghost 2003 is just fine for cloning the
contents of an internal HD to a USB/Firewire external HD. I frequently use
the cloning process just that way.

I'm don't know why you're having the problems your having with using Ghost
2003 for direct disk-cloning operations involving a USB EHD, so let me make
the following points and see if one or more apply to your situation...

1. It is *vital* that you use the (apparently) final build of Ghost 2003,
i.e., Ghost 2003.793. Ghost did have problems with certain USB EHDs in its
earlier editions. So if your version of Ghost 2003 is earlier, use
Symantec's LiveUpdate utility to download/install the 793 build.

2. It (nearly) goes without saying, that in order for the cloning process to
be successful, both the source disk (the drive you're cloning from) and the
destination disk (the drive you're cloning to) must be non-defective and
properly connected/configured in your system.

3. The OS that you're cloning must be free from system files corruption. If
you clone garbage, garbage is what you'll get.

4. The USB EHD is not bootable - at least in our experience. If & when the
time comes when you have to restore your system using the cloned USB EHD you
simply clone the contents of that external HD back to the internal HD.
Anna

 

[Aloke Prasad]

That's odd. DriveImage 7 installed by default in the XP partition. Did
not affect the mbr, or create another partition for its installation or
otherwise. The restore was from its boot CD in a windows PE environment,
that could see removable USB/Firewire drives for access of image files for
restoration, and understands XP's version of NTFS.

I don't think DI is available any more Symantec bought them out and rolled
it into their Ghost product.

Ho do you create images? on a reboot? or from Windows GUI?

Sounds like Ghost 10.0.

 

[Aloke Prasad]

Aloke:
You misunderstood my response. Ghost 2003 is just fine for cloning the
contents of an internal HD to a USB/Firewire external HD. I frequently use
the cloning process just that way.

I'm don't know why you're having the problems your having with using Ghost
2003 for direct disk-cloning operations involving a USB EHD, so let me
make the following points and see if one or more apply to your
situation...

I don't clone disks. I image my PC disks to a USB EHD. If needed, I
restore the active partition back (like say if a software or driver update
causes problems).

Once, I could not restore an image. Symantec tech support figured that
there was a problem that the MFT was too fragmented, even though the disk
did not have any problems (identified by CHKDSK). Thereafter, they
suggested (and I complied) that I use Diskeeper to do boot-time
defragmentation periodically, and that I use the option in Ghost to create
"forensic" images.

I figured that it has been a while since Ghost 2003 was released (12/2003)
and that there are better, more recent software that would do a better job.

1. It is *vital* that you use the (apparently) final build of Ghost 2003,
i.e., Ghost 2003.793. Ghost did have problems with certain USB EHDs in its
earlier editions. So if your version of Ghost 2003 is earlier, use
Symantec's LiveUpdate utility to download/install the 793 build.

I am using that build.

2. It (nearly) goes without saying, that in order for the cloning process
to be successful, both the source disk (the drive you're cloning from) and
the destination disk (the drive you're cloning to) must be non-defective
and properly connected/configured in your system.

The image creation gave no errors when the incident above happened. I
lerned about the problem after the restore was completed and the PC wouldn't
boot after that.

3. The OS that you're cloning must be free from system files corruption.
If you clone garbage, garbage is what you'll get.

Of course.

4. The USB EHD is not bootable - at least in our experience. If & when the
time comes when you have to restore your system using the cloned USB EHD
you simply clone the contents of that external HD back to the internal HD.

I boot from a bootable CDR with the GHOST.EXE on it. It detects the USB
EHD.

 

[Anna]

I don't clone disks. I image my PC disks to a USB EHD. If needed, I
restore the active partition back (like say if a software or driver update
causes problems).

Once, I could not restore an image. Symantec tech support figured that
there was a problem that the MFT was too fragmented, even though the disk
did not have any problems (identified by CHKDSK). Thereafter, they
suggested (and I complied) that I use Diskeeper to do boot-time
defragmentation periodically, and that I use the option in Ghost to create
"forensic" images.

I figured that it has been a while since Ghost 2003 was released (12/2003)
and that there are better, more recent software that would do a better
job.


I am using that build.


The image creation gave no errors when the incident above happened. I
lerned about the problem after the restore was completed and the PC
wouldn't boot after that.


Of course.


I boot from a bootable CDR with the GHOST.EXE on it. It detects the USB
EHD.

Aloke:
I'm going to try this one more time since apparently I haven't made my
comments clear to you...

1. We use the Ghost 2003 program to DIRECTLY clone the contents of one HD to
another HD (either internal or external). We do NOT prepare "disk images" on
media such as CD/DVDs. The disk cloning process we undertake is a DIRECT
disk-to-disk cloning operation with both the source & destination drives
connected. I fear I haven't made this clear to you.

2. When I mention that the USB external HD is not bootable, I am referring
to the USBEHD that is the recipient of the clone. After the cloned contents
of the internal HD have been cloned to the USBEHD - those cloned contents
including the XP OS of course - the USBEHD is not bootable. I am NOT
referring to the Ghost executable file that invokes the Ghost program.

Please re:read my previous comments. I think we have a problem with
semantics. I'm sure my previous comments will be more understandable to you
with another reading.
Anna

 

[Aloke Prasad]

Aloke:
I'm going to try this one more time since apparently I haven't made my
comments clear to you...

1. We use the Ghost 2003 program to DIRECTLY clone the contents of one HD
to another HD (either internal or external). We do NOT prepare "disk
images" on media such as CD/DVDs. The disk cloning process we undertake is
a DIRECT disk-to-disk cloning operation with both the source & destination
drives connected. I fear I haven't made this clear to you.

2. When I mention that the USB external HD is not bootable, I am referring
to the USBEHD that is the recipient of the clone. After the cloned
contents of the internal HD have been cloned to the USBEHD - those cloned
contents including the XP OS of course - the USBEHD is not bootable. I am
NOT referring to the Ghost executable file that invokes the Ghost program.

Please re:read my previous comments. I think we have a problem with
semantics. I'm sure my previous comments will be more understandable to
you with another reading.
Anna

Anna,

Thanks for your patience. I understand you. But it appears that we are
using Ghost 2003 for 2 different purposes: You use it to clone disks; I use
it to backup my disks.

You have not encountered problems in your usage of Ghost 2003, I have.

Anyway, it appears that TrueImage will do what I want. Maybe Ghost 2003
will as well. But having been burnt by it once, my trust in it is reduced.
I might continue to use it as well as TrueImage. Belt and suspenders.

 

[Bill Blanton]

Thanks for your patience. I understand you. But it appears that we are using Ghost 2003 for 2 different purposes: You use it to
clone disks; I use it to backup my disks.

You have not encountered problems in your usage of Ghost 2003, I have.

There's always going to be more risk when "imaging" the filesystem, as
opposed to doing a byte for byte clone. Of course there's a tradeoff.
The clone is going to be much larger in size..

Anyway, it appears that TrueImage will do what I want. Maybe Ghost 2003 will as well. But having been burnt by it once, my trust
in it is reduced. I might continue to use it as well as TrueImage. Belt and suspenders.

FWIW, I've been imaging and "partition cloning" with BootitNG for years and
haven't been burned yet. Have just started playing around with TrueImage,
and have heard good things about it.

 

[Jonny]

I don't think DI is available any more Symantec bought them out and rolled
it into their Ghost product.

Ho do you create images? on a reboot? or from Windows GUI?

Sounds like Ghost 10.0.

Still using DI 7. Makes images only in XP environment. Restore is only
from its boot CD. Was using DI 6, ran from floppy for restores, ran from
floppy and temporary virtual floppy on hard disk for imaging any partition
(maybe this is the mbr change you're speaking of?), or ME/98 for other than
operating system partition.
Powerquest sent me a free DI 7.01 full version free (no upgrade requirement)
about a month before Symantec took over. Symantec offered a 7.03 upgrade
online for awhile. There was no version 7.02.
Older software is available online, you just have to search for it.

 

[Aloke Prasad]

Still using DI 7. Makes images only in XP environment. Restore is only
from its boot CD. Was using DI 6, ran from floppy for restores, ran from
floppy and temporary virtual floppy on hard disk for imaging any partition
(maybe this is the mbr change you're speaking of?), or ME/98 for other
than operating system partition.
Powerquest sent me a free DI 7.01 full version free (no upgrade
requirement) about a month before Symantec took over. Symantec offered a
7.03 upgrade online for awhile. There was no version 7.02.
Older software is available online, you just have to search for it.

DI 7 sounds just like Ghost 10.0 (which I'm getting for free - after
rebates - from Buy.com). Ghost 10.0 will even read images created by DI.

 

[roman modic]

Hello!

I use Ghost 2003 but that is getting dated. Ghost 10 and TrueImage create disk images in WinXP, change the MBR and do other nasty
things like install in their own partitions.

All I want is a program that runs from a bootable CD, crates and restores disk images, including the latest NTFS volumes.

Which program fits the bill?

There are at least three:

I. savepart
http://www.partition-saving.com/
"Partition Saving is a DOS program that is used to save, restore and copy hard-drive, partitions, floppy disk and DOS devices."

http://damien.guibouret.free.fr/en/partinfo.html#Chapitre_4
[/quote]
4) Why a DOS program ?
An OS must be chosen. Indeed if we do not need to know data organization, saved data must be written somewhere with a known
organization for the user to access them (by example to write them on a CD). Choice has been made of DOS because it is a simple task
OS. With a multi tasking OS, imagine problems that could be caused by a process changing data on a partition when saving (or
restoring) of this partition is in progress. In general there is a way to avoid simultaneous access, but what could happen if the
access to hard disk must be forbidden during a long time as it is the case with this program (by example with swapping file under
Windows)? And what could happen if the OS does not hold in full into memory?
DOS advantage is that it could be quickly installed (what is the gain if you have to lose an hour to install OS before restoring?)
and could hold on one floppy. So with running on one floppy, it is possible to save/restore a partition even if there was no DOS
partition on a computer if this computer is connected to a network with a Samba server on, or if it has a high capacity saving
system (like ZIP or LS120).
This is the reasons why this program could not be run under Windows and that it is not advise to use it with an emulator running on
a multi tasking environment (moreover emulator could not define all functionalities used into this program).
[/quote]

II. Portlock Storage Manager
http://www.portlock.com/products/stormgr/index.htm

.... is designed to minimize the management, setup, installation, and reconfiguration time for Linux, NetWare and Windows systems.
Copy, create, clone, image, restore, and resize DOS, NetWare and NSS partitions and volumes. Image and restore Windows FAT32 and
NTFS partitions; Linux Ext2 / Ext3 / ReiserFS partitions. Disaster recovery of failed servers is very fast and dramatically
simplified - no booting OS required.

Portlock Storage Manager from a floppy:
http://www.portlock.com/download/stormgr.htm
http://www.portlock.com/download/psm_diskette.zip

III. Image for DOS
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image.html

You can backup to, or restore from, just about any drive letter, including network drives. The program can also directly access FAT,
FAT32, and NTFS partitions, as well as most writable USB2, IEEE1394, ATAPI or ASPI accessible CD or DVD drives, without the need for
any special drivers. By default, backups made to CD/DVD are bootable, which provides you with a convenient recovery CD/DVD.
Image for DOS works seamlessly with on-board hardware and firmware based RAID.

Regards, Roman

 

[Dave Cohen]

Hello!

I use Ghost 2003 but that is getting dated. Ghost 10 and TrueImage create disk images in WinXP, change the MBR and do other nasty
things like install in their own partitions.

All I want is a program that runs from a bootable CD, crates and restores disk images, including the latest NTFS volumes.

Which program fits the bill?

There are at least three:

I. savepart
http://www.partition-saving.com/
"Partition Saving is a DOS program that is used to save, restore and copy hard-drive, partitions, floppy disk and DOS devices."

http://damien.guibouret.free.fr/en/partinfo.html#Chapitre_4

4) Why a DOS program ?
An OS must be chosen. Indeed if we do not need to know data organization, saved data must be written somewhere with a known
organization for the user to access them (by example to write them on a CD). Choice has been made of DOS because it is a simple task
OS. With a multi tasking OS, imagine problems that could be caused by a process changing data on a partition when saving (or
restoring) of this partition is in progress. In general there is a way to avoid simultaneous access, but what could happen if the
access to hard disk must be forbidden during a long time as it is the case with this program (by example with swapping file under
Windows)? And what could happen if the OS does not hold in full into memory?
DOS advantage is that it could be quickly installed (what is the gain if you have to lose an hour to install OS before restoring?)
and could hold on one floppy. So with running on one floppy, it is possible to save/restore a partition even if there was no DOS
partition on a computer if this computer is connected to a network with a Samba server on, or if it has a high capacity saving
system (like ZIP or LS120).
This is the reasons why this program could not be run under Windows and that it is not advise to use it with an emulator running on
a multi tasking environment (moreover emulator could not define all functionalities used into this program).
[/quote]

II. Portlock Storage Manager
http://www.portlock.com/products/stormgr/index.htm

... is designed to minimize the management, setup, installation, and reconfiguration time for Linux, NetWare and Windows systems.
Copy, create, clone, image, restore, and resize DOS, NetWare and NSS partitions and volumes. Image and restore Windows FAT32 and
NTFS partitions; Linux Ext2 / Ext3 / ReiserFS partitions. Disaster recovery of failed servers is very fast and dramatically
simplified - no booting OS required.

Portlock Storage Manager from a floppy:
http://www.portlock.com/download/stormgr.htm
http://www.portlock.com/download/psm_diskette.zip

III. Image for DOS
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image.html

You can backup to, or restore from, just about any drive letter, including network drives. The program can also directly access FAT,
FAT32, and NTFS partitions, as well as most writable USB2, IEEE1394, ATAPI or ASPI accessible CD or DVD drives, without the need for
any special drivers. By default, backups made to CD/DVD are bootable, which provides you with a convenient recovery CD/DVD.
Image for DOS works seamlessly with on-board hardware and firmware based RAID.

Regards, Roman
[/QUOTE]
Expanding on item III above, all the utilities offered by
terabyteunlimited are excellent value, support is excellent (via news
group) and work well. No connection to the company but have been using
bootitng for a number of years.
Dave Cohen

 

[Aloke Prasad]

Thanks for the information.

 

[Jonny]

DI 7 sounds just like Ghost 10.0 (which I'm getting for free - after
rebates - from Buy.com). Ghost 10.0 will even read images created by DI.

Still wondering where the mbr modification thing you mentioned comes in the
picture...

 

[Aloke Prasad]

Still wondering where the mbr modification thing you mentioned comes in
the picture...

According to Symantec (and based on reading the manual), Ghost 10.0 does not
add hidden partitions or changes the MBR. It will image from the Windows
GUI. It can restore from Windows or the bootable CD.

Trueimage manual mentions partition where it installs itself and a boot-time
option (F11) which allows to boot from there during restores. Rod has
mentioned that one can do everything by booting from the TI CD. I'm trying
to figure that out from the TI manual.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

I would use BING (Boot It NG) from www.bootitng.com, taking care to
cancel the initial "install" prompt when the CDR (or 1.44M) is booted.

BING is a boot manager, so normally one installs it to act as such
(which is exactly what you don't want, if I understand you correctly).
But it also has an excellent "partition maintenance" mode that it will
enter if you boot it up and then cancel at the install prompt

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