OEM purchase- no Disc

[Jan Kåre]

Hi, all!
Just bought a HP desktop with Vista preinstalled. A separate install / boot
device (disk) was not included in the package. I am not up to date with my
customers rights - nor the licensing policy of Microsoft, but I feel uneasy
without the disc separate from the HDD.
(The PC-box (HP - Pavilion) has the authenticity-labels in order)
Can anyone adivice me as to whether I am entiteled to a disc, and make a
claim about this towards the shop?

 

[Bob]

The documentation that came with your PC shows you how to create System
Recovery Disks. Most likely you also have a built-in Recovery Partition (D
drive)

 

[Andre Matuch]

Hi, all!
Just bought a HP desktop with Vista preinstalled. A separate install / boot
device (disk) was not included in the package. I am not up to date with my
customers rights - nor the licensing policy of Microsoft, but I feel uneasy
without the disc separate from the HDD.
(The PC-box (HP - Pavilion) has the authenticity-labels in order)
Can anyone adivice me as to whether I am entiteled to a disc, and make a
claim about this towards the shop?

All computers nowadays leave the installation files on a separate
partition... it is not an uncommon practice. Chances are you will find
reinstallation through the seperate partition to be easier, not harder,
than through a disc.

 

[Guest]

The documentation that came with your PC shows you how to create System
Recovery Disks. Most likely you also have a built-in Recovery Partition (D
drive)

I'm sure his will.

However, if his is like most people's, all it does is restore an exact
image.

Not a good solution if you have a problem and need to reinstall or repair.
(Even Microsoft's advice for the latest pre-sp1 requisite fiasco requires
you to use a real Vista dvd.)

Better to get a real Vista dvd (they are cheap from Microsoft) and learn how
to reinstall your OEM version.

 

[Guest]

All computers nowadays leave the installation files on a separate
partition... it is not an uncommon practice. Chances are you will find
reinstallation through the seperate partition to be easier, not harder,
than through a disc.

But reinstall partitions are utterly worthless if you have a windows problem
and need to repair.

Plus, you are still bogged down with half a gig of useless trialware that
often actually interefers with Window's operation and may crash the system
if you try to uninstall it.

 

[Guest]

No, Microsoft strongly strongly discourages vendors from including a disk
with Windows XP or Vista. In spite of the benifits and security it entails.

Although you might be able to obtain a copy from your vendor, expect to pay
big $$$ for it. Mine wants to charge me $40 for it. Just a regular
Microsoft disk.

Just obtain a regular 32 bit Windows Vista dvd. Even an 'anytime upgrade'
dvd will do. (You can buy one directly from Microsoft for just a few
dollars.) They are all the same.

Then all you need is the digital cert (probably ends with an xrm-ms
extension) that activates the OEM version, and your OEM Vista key. (You'll
need a key viewer, since it is *not* what is on the sticker on your
computer. The key on your computer is permanently deactivated and will
never work.)

Then you can use slmgr.vbs to reactivate it after you reinstall.

Or you can even use one of the 'save & restore vista activation' programs
that will take care of the reactivation for you.

(Note, the reactivation is entirely on the computer and is done based on the
OEM bios you have. Microsoft is not contacted.)

Just do a web search for this kind of stuff. The details are all over the
place.

Anyway, just obtain a copy of any real Vista dvd. If you know anybody with
a retail copy, that will do. Or you can buy a disk from Microsoft for just
a few dollars. Last time I checked, you could get one through the
AnytimeUpgrade thing for I think $7. Just order the disk without the
Anytime upgrade.

 

[ray]

All computers nowadays leave the installation files on a separate
partition... it is not an uncommon practice. Chances are you will find
reinstallation through the seperate partition to be easier, not harder,
than through a disc.

Unless the disc dies.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Hi, all!
Just bought a HP desktop with Vista preinstalled. A separate install / boot
device (disk) was not included in the package. I am not up to date with my
customers rights - nor the licensing policy of Microsoft, but I feel uneasy
without the disc separate from the HDD.
(The PC-box (HP - Pavilion) has the authenticity-labels in order)
Can anyone adivice me as to whether I am entiteled to a disc, and make a
claim about this towards the shop?

Microsoft requires its licensed OEM computer manufacturers to
provide a means of returning the computer to its original, ex-factory
state. The particular method of recovery, however, is left entirely to
the discretion of each individual computer manufacturer.

Legally, the OEM has met it's contractual obligation to Microsoft
by providing a means of returning the PC to its ex-factory state,
whether it's a Recovery CD or a Recovery Partition. They are not
legally obliged to provide a true installation CD as part of the sale.
Reputable, customer-service aware OEMs, like Dell and Gateway, do
provide a full OEM installation CD, that does permit custom
installations and repairs. However, many uncaring OEMs, such as
eMachines, Compaq, HP, and Sony, in an effort to save pennies and reduce
their support costs by having to hire support people that need only say
"Boot from the Recovery CD to return your PC to its original condition,"
provide only a CD bearing a disk image of the hard drive as it left the
factory.

Essentially, it boils down to "You get what you pay for."

The computer's manufacturer will have provided you some means of
returning the computer to it's original, ex-factory state. Read the
documentation that came with the computer, or check the manufacturer's
support web site, and follow the instructions/procedures provided.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Bruce Chambers]

No, Microsoft strongly strongly discourages vendors from including a disk
with Windows XP or Vista.

Please provide some sort of documentation to support this otherwise
absurd assertion.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Guest]

Please provide some sort of documentation to support this otherwise absurd
assertion.

I'm not going to go hunt up the references because right off the top of my
head I don't have them. A quick web search should turn them up, though.

BUT, when XP came out, they publicly stated then that they wanted computer
makers to provide recovery disks (or partitions), rather than installation
disks.

After XP had been out for quite some time, they insisted that OEM makers
preactivate XP. They required all manufacturers to modify the BIOS so it
could preactivate, so they would not have to ship installation disks, but
only recovery disks. (They also deactivated all the existing OEM product
keys on all the stickers of the existing mass market OEM systems.) They did
these things in the name of antipiracy. Without product keys and
installation disks, people couldn't try to use them elsewhere.

When Vista was being developed, they stated they wanted manufacturers to
provide recovery partitions instead of disks. They also developed (and
documented on their website), the way to do the hidden partition for the
recovery files. They also documented how OEM bios manufacturers were to
modify their BIOS'es to detect that hidden partition flag and to determine
whether to boot into that partition (for recovery) or into the regular
partition for normal booting.

They also modified Vista to specifically exclude detection of that hidden
partition, so the OS would not detect the hidden partition and think it was
corrupted. They also instructed disk utility companies (Norton, etc.) to
modify their tools so they would also not detect the hidden recovery
partition and offer to 'fix' it.

All of those things were done by Microsoft in the name of antipiracy. And
all of them were publicly stated by Microsoft. And many of them (the oem
keys, the hidden partition stuff, for example) are still documented on their
website. (I saw them just a few weeks ago. They even post OEM keys for XP
for people to use because they had deactivated all the sticker keys.)

Also, if you ask an OEM computer maker about obtaining a real instalation
disk, instead of a recovery disk, some will tell you they can't do it
because Microsoft wont allow it. That you will actually have to buy a new
OEM copy of Vista from them, before they can give you a disk.

 

[Bill]

Just obtain a regular 32 bit Windows Vista dvd.
Then all you need is the digital cert (probably ends with an xrm-ms
extension) that activates the OEM version, and your OEM Vista key. (You'll
need a key viewer, since it is *not* what is on the sticker on your
computer. The key on your computer is permanently deactivated and will
never work.)

Then you can use slmgr.vbs to reactivate it after you reinstall.

I created a system restore disc for my Acer system shortly after the
purchase last August, using provided software to create a DVD from the
hidden recovery partition. However, I much prefer installing Vista from
the Anytime Upgrade disc that was included, and afterwards activating
using the above method. It works flawlessly, and gives me the freedom to
install only what I want installed.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I'm not going to go hunt up the references because right off the top of my
head I don't have them. A quick web search should turn them up, though.

In other words, you have no evidence to support your claims. Thanks
for confirming.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[forty-nine]

I'm not going to go hunt up the references because right off the top of my
head I don't have them. A quick web search should turn them up, though.

BUT, when XP came out, they publicly stated then that they wanted computer
makers to provide recovery disks (or partitions), rather than installation
disks.

After XP had been out for quite some time, they insisted that OEM makers
preactivate XP. They required all manufacturers to modify the BIOS so it
could preactivate, so they would not have to ship installation disks, but
only recovery disks. (They also deactivated all the existing OEM product
keys on all the stickers of the existing mass market OEM systems.) They
did
these things in the name of antipiracy. Without product keys and
installation disks, people couldn't try to use them elsewhere.

When Vista was being developed, they stated they wanted manufacturers to
provide recovery partitions instead of disks. They also developed (and
documented on their website), the way to do the hidden partition for the
recovery files. They also documented how OEM bios manufacturers were to
modify their BIOS'es to detect that hidden partition flag and to determine
whether to boot into that partition (for recovery) or into the regular
partition for normal booting.

They also modified Vista to specifically exclude detection of that hidden
partition, so the OS would not detect the hidden partition and think it
was
corrupted. They also instructed disk utility companies (Norton, etc.) to
modify their tools so they would also not detect the hidden recovery
partition and offer to 'fix' it.

All of those things were done by Microsoft in the name of antipiracy. And
all of them were publicly stated by Microsoft. And many of them (the oem
keys, the hidden partition stuff, for example) are still documented on
their website. (I saw them just a few weeks ago. They even post OEM keys
for XP for people to use because they had deactivated all the sticker
keys.)

Also, if you ask an OEM computer maker about obtaining a real instalation
disk, instead of a recovery disk, some will tell you they can't do it
because Microsoft wont allow it. That you will actually have to buy a new
OEM copy of Vista from them, before they can give you a disk.

Hahaha ... the only valid copy of Vista is stored in area 51 ... the rest
are "screw joe public" copies.
Whatta bunch of losers ... talk to the OEM about your Vista disk .
They save 10 bucks not sending it.... so they don't send it .... you stupid
gumba.

 

[C.B.]

Microsoft requires its licensed OEM computer manufacturers to provide
a means of returning the computer to its original, ex-factory state. The
particular method of recovery, however, is left entirely to the discretion
of each individual computer manufacturer.

Legally, the OEM has met it's contractual obligation to Microsoft by
providing a means of returning the PC to its ex-factory state, whether
it's a Recovery CD or a Recovery Partition. They are not legally obliged
to provide a true installation CD as part of the sale. Reputable,
customer-service aware OEMs, like Dell and Gateway, do provide a full OEM
installation CD, that does permit custom installations and repairs.
However, many uncaring OEMs, such as eMachines, Compaq, HP, and Sony, in
an effort to save pennies and reduce their support costs by having to hire
support people that need only say "Boot from the Recovery CD to return
your PC to its original condition," provide only a CD bearing a disk image
of the hard drive as it left the factory.

Essentially, it boils down to "You get what you pay for."

The computer's manufacturer will have provided you some means of
returning the computer to it's original, ex-factory state. Read the
documentation that came with the computer, or check the manufacturer's
support web site, and follow the instructions/procedures provided.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand
Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

Mr. Chambers,

I'm glad someone else recognizes the value of a service oriented
computer vendor such as Dell. The two main reasons I always buy Dell is for
the installation disk and the fact that their warranty hardware replacement
is, in my opinion, the best in the business. The advance exchange alone
would probably entice me to buy a Dell. I've never had to pay a penny for
shipping, either direction.
Dell has never failed to replace hardware, and they haven't made me
suffer through hours or days of support before making the decision to
replace faulty hardware, which I would receive the next day or two days
later. They always give me the option of replacing it myself or sending a
technician to do it for me. Dell even sent a technician to replace a
keyboard key on one of my laptops, even though the key was probably only
worth about 50 cents.
I realize there are many people who trash Dell and insinuate that Dell
computers are "rinky-dink" or "kiddies' toys". Nevertheless, I have always
been more than satisfied with them. They have performed extremely well for
me over the years. I even buy all my peripherals through Dell regardless of
the manufacturer because of the support provided for them by Dell.

C.B.

 

[Jan Kåre]

Thank you all for sharing your facts and opinions on this topic !

My sum up:

The OEM solution I just purchased (Desktop + licensed copy of Vista) is mine
to use as long as I can get in contact with the HDD. Accordingly, my legally
purchased license dies with the machine. HW upgrades (beyond a level) will
be a license violation.

I thought I'd purchased a more lasting software license.

A Vista Home premium disk will cost me about $ 185.



I do not like the concept where the assumptions are that your computer
always boots properly - and internet is available, while warranty is short
in time. A short life for the product - considering the money spent.

I agree with "C.B" , finding Dells solutions better!

Thank you.

 

[Bill]

Thank you all for sharing your facts and opinions on this topic !

My sum up:

The OEM solution I just purchased (Desktop + licensed copy of Vista) is mine
to use as long as I can get in contact with the HDD. Accordingly, my legally
purchased license dies with the machine. HW upgrades (beyond a level) will
be a license violation.

I thought I'd purchased a more lasting software license.

A Vista Home premium disk will cost me about $ 185.

An OEM license is linked primarily to your computer's motherboard/BIOS,
not the hard drive. This is also true of standalone OEM copies of Vista
that are available for purchase from places like newegg.com or Ebay.

There should be a utility with your HP system to create a system restore
disc from the hidden partition that's on the hard drive. If you haven't
done so already, burn a copy onto a DVD disc as it's very important. You
should be able to restore your system from that copy even if a new hard
drive is purchased, as long as your motherboard remains unchanged.

There may be companies out there who furnish standalone Windows discs
that are retail versions with no limitations--but this hasn't been the
case with the three systems that I've purchased since 1999, from three
different manufacturers--IBM, Gateway, and Acer. Unlike Acer, IBM and
Gateway both furnished system restore discs as opposed to a hidden hard
drive partition, but both discs would only function with the computer
that had been purchased.

Bottom line--what you're running into is far from unique. The best
workaround is to assemble your own system from individual components,
but unless you find terrific deals (or have existing hardware that can
be used) the price may be considerably higher.

 

[Bill]

Hi Jan
My humble opinion is you shouldn't pay a single penny for any discs.
You would be better off with Ubuntu or any version of Linux systems and
it is free. We the consumers are not thieves and we pay lot of money for
our purchases and we deserve better treatment by the people who sell
these products. I am sure there were no proper warnings about creating
these recovery disc when you first opened the box. If you have already
started using your laptop without creating this disc,you have no way of
creating the factory image. I bought WindowsXP disc from a big store
retailer for £89 believing it was a retail disc,but when I opened the
package I saw "Upgrade" on the disc, they never printed the word
"Upgrade" on the package. I use Ubuntu and I do not miss XP.

This is not true if the laptop has a hidden recovery partition--the
restore disc can be created at any time.

Also, if you bought Windows XP from a reputable retailer, and it was not
a pirated copy, the fact that it was an upgrade version would have
printed plainly on the outside box...Microsoft does not hide this fact.

 

[Alias]

All computers nowadays leave the installation files on a separate
partition...

"All" computers? Excuse me, but only crappy computers that come bloated
with trial Norton type crap come that way.

Alias