OEM License Question

[Leythos]

ALL stores in Spain ONLY sell OEM with NO hardware. Are you telling me
that MS doesn't know about this? You cannot get a full retail version
ANYWHERE. Now, please, tell me how the retailers are being "unethical".

We've covered this more times that needs to be covered - The Systems
Builders Website clearly states that you can only sell OEM XP to end
users if you install it on their computer. You can transfer OEM media
from one Systems Builder to another Systems Builder at any time.

There is nothing that indicates you've signed up to become a Systems
Builder and noting that indicates your vendor has asked you if you are a
Systems Builder - so, according to all the official documentation I can
access your vendors are breaking the SB rules as posted, which also
makes their actions unethical.

It's quite simple, and no matter how many ways you want to spin it, the
facts are as I stated.

 

[Alias]

........... clipped.......

Hi Alias
You keep saying this about Spain - soon you will sound like you know who
with their auto-reply.
Are you talking about walk-in shops/stores, web sites or what.
All.

You also say you cannot buy retail WIN XP anywhere.

No, you can't. There is one store that will sell you a retail upgrade of
Home for US$ 398. All the rest only sell OEM.

Again, are you talking about shops etc and Spanish based suppliers on the
net?
Both

Have you asked MS why?

No, because I have no real interest and I am not crazy about calling
anyone that has a machine answer your call and charges you extra for the
call. Life is short and talking to a machine on my time is not exactly
what I want to do with the time I have left.

Have you asked the shops etc why you cannot get XP retail and don't have to
buy a piece of hardware to get the OEM?

No, why should I? If I ever wanted a retail version, although I can't
think of one good reason why, I would have a relative in the States get
it for me.

Hope you don't mind my asking ;-)
Rgds
Antioch

No problem.

Alias

 

[Alias]

We've covered this more times that needs to be covered -

And you still don't get it!

The Systems
Builders Website clearly states that you can only sell OEM XP to end
users if you install it on their computer. You can transfer OEM media
from one Systems Builder to another Systems Builder at any time.

There is nothing that indicates you've signed up to become a Systems
Builder and noting that indicates your vendor has asked you if you are a
Systems Builder - so, according to all the official documentation I can
access your vendors are breaking the SB rules as posted, which also
makes their actions unethical.

It's quite simple, and no matter how many ways you want to spin it, the
facts are as I stated.

Not in Spain. I don't know, but I suspect it has to do with either EU or
Spanish law in defense of the consumer. You can't tell me that MS
wouldn't notice that NO retail XPs are sold in Spain and that millions
of OEMs are sold. Think, Leythos!

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Not in Spain. I don't know, but I suspect it has to do with either EU or
Spanish law in defense of the consumer. You can't tell me that MS
wouldn't notice that NO retail XPs are sold in Spain and that millions
of OEMs are sold. Think, Leythos!

I don't care how much you say it's OK in spain, I care about what I can
read/see from reputable websites. None of the vendors you listed in
other threads responded when I asked them about OEM requirements, not
one, not even a "we don't understand english" reply.

So, as I have nothing formal to dispute the SB site, nothing from any
Spain located vendor, I will stick with the SB site and its rules.

 

[Greg Rozelle]

We've covered this more times that needs to be covered - The Systems
Builders Website clearly states that you can only sell OEM XP to end
users if you install it on their computer. You can transfer OEM media
from one Systems Builder to another Systems Builder at any time.

There is nothing that indicates you've signed up to become a Systems
Builder and noting that indicates your vendor has asked you if you are a
Systems Builder - so, according to all the official documentation I can
access your vendors are breaking the SB rules as posted, which also
makes their actions unethical.

It's quite simple, and no matter how many ways you want to spin it, the
facts are as I stated.

Leythos,
Not all system builder have agreement with Microsoft but still sell
the oem software legally.

Microsoft has admitted themselves that if a end user is building a
system that they are system builders and can buy a 1 pack xp sp2.

Note-I consider a system builder anyone that can replace a inside
component

Also, that country may have different laws that allow oem to be used.

Alias, does have a point. What are you suppose to buy if you want to
use xp and the retailers do not sell xp retail versions?

Don't say you can order it on the web. Most Places, don't ship
software internationally. There is also encryption restriction as
well.

Microsoft may be working on the Spain problem and fixing it. We will
see.


Greg Rozelle

 

[Alias]

I don't care how much you say it's OK in spain, I care about what I can
read/see from reputable websites. None of the vendors you listed in
other threads responded when I asked them about OEM requirements, not
one, not even a "we don't understand english" reply.

Pretty good trick when you consider only one (out of three) of them has
contact information on their web site.

So, as I have nothing formal to dispute the SB site, nothing from any
Spain located vendor, I will stick with the SB site and its rules.

And throw logic out the window. The SB site is not for Spain. I repeat,
ALL stores sell OEM. NO stores sell retail and you're telling me MS
wouldn't notice that???? Please explain how MS wouldn't notice that.
This should be good.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Leythos,
Not all system builder have agreement with Microsoft but still sell
the oem software legally.

Microsoft has admitted themselves that if a end user is building a
system that they are system builders and can buy a 1 pack xp sp2.

Note-I consider a system builder anyone that can replace a inside
component

Also, that country may have different laws that allow oem to be used.

Alias, does have a point. What are you suppose to buy if you want to
use xp and the retailers do not sell xp retail versions?

Don't say you can order it on the web. Most Places, don't ship
software internationally. There is also encryption restriction as
well.

Microsoft may be working on the Spain problem and fixing it. We will
see.


Greg Rozelle

What problem? They are making big bucks selling OEM versions.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

And throw logic out the window. The SB site is not for Spain. I repeat,
ALL stores sell OEM. NO stores sell retail and you're telling me MS
wouldn't notice that???? Please explain how MS wouldn't notice that.
This should be good.

I can't explain it, and don't care to try - please explain how the SB
site is not for Spain? There is nothing limiting the SB site to any
country, nothing indicating it doesn't apply to the entire world, etc...

Your statement is the same as saying "It is legal because we're doing it
and no one is arresting us".

 

[Alias]

I can't explain it, and don't care to try - please explain how the SB
site is not for Spain? There is nothing limiting the SB site to any
country, nothing indicating it doesn't apply to the entire world, etc...

Um, that SB web site is in English. Tell you anything?

Your statement is the same as saying "It is legal because we're doing it
and no one is arresting us".

No, I am saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE that MS isn't aware of it unless
they are as logic impaired as you are.

Alias

 

[antioch]

No, you can't. There is one store that will sell you a retail upgrade of
Home for US$ 398. All the rest only sell OEM.


No, because I have no real interest and I am not crazy about calling
anyone that has a machine answer your call and charges you extra for the
call. Life is short and talking to a machine on my time is not exactly
what I want to do with the time I have left.


No, why should I? If I ever wanted a retail version, although I can't
think of one good reason why, I would have a relative in the States get it
for me.


No problem.

Alias

Thanks for the replies - what I forgot to ask, and you may well have
answered in one of your many other posts etc, but has the WGA fiasco been
'piloted' in Spain?
Rgds
Antioch

 

[Ghostrider]

It seems it depends on what country you are in. For the USA:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837102062

Alias

The issue is what would be the ethical and proper action by
Tood and Margo in dealing with what appeared to be a walk-in
customer seeking a copy of Windows XP after being informed by
WGA that their present copy is invalid. The example of buying
an OEM version from Newegg is different in that the customer
knowingly went to Newegg and bought the OEM version without the
intervention of a live person who, as a reseller, is bound by
whatever underlying conditions that may exist.

This is an interesting conundrum that my attorney friends and
I saw in the early 1990's and I am most happy to have disengaged
from the software end of things. Nobody can accuse of me selling
them counterfeit or pirated software.

 

[Leythos]

I know the rules have changed. You can sell unopened packs of OEM XP to
another system builder. This could be a one pack, 3 pack, or 30 pack. Two
different Microsoft licensing reps have told me anyone who says they are
building a system is a system builder. This means you can order a one pack
of OEM XP and sell it to anyone. There is no requirement for qualifying
hardware only that the buyer tell you they are a system builder. I was also
told by a Microsoft rep that I could sell OEM XP to a person who has failed
WGA. Again it has to be an unopened one pack. What you can't do is break up
a multi pack and sell the individual units.

Kerry, I appreciate your comments, and I agree with them, and they
restate what I've already said - with the exception that I can't find
anywhere that allows you to sell an OEM copy to a owner of a pirated
copy without them declaring they are a SB.

I know it's just semantics, as they could just claim to be a SB, and I
know MS is slow to update their licensing info, but I can't find the
part about selling to victims of pirates.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Kerry, I appreciate your comments, and I agree with them, and they
restate what I've already said - with the exception that I can't find
anywhere that allows you to sell an OEM copy to a owner of a pirated
copy without them declaring they are a SB.

I know it's just semantics, as they could just claim to be a SB, and I
know MS is slow to update their licensing info, but I can't find the
part about selling to victims of pirates.

That's because it's not there. I was told on a couple of occasions by
Microsoft reps that this would be acceptable. One even told me that someone
phoning in about pirate or counterfeit software and didn't qualify for a
replacment from Microsoft would be directed to a local registered partner to
purchase an OEM version. The reasoning was they wanted the customer to get a
legitimate license as cheaply as possible. I've never seen this in writing
so I don't know if it's an official policy.

 

[Kerry Brown]

sell the individual units.

Kerry, I appreciate your comments, and I agree with them, and they
restate what I've already said - with the exception that I can't find
anywhere that allows you to sell an OEM copy to a owner of a pirated
copy without them declaring they are a SB.

I know it's just semantics, as they could just claim to be a SB, and I
know MS is slow to update their licensing info, but I can't find the
part about selling to victims of pirates.

I found a link that explains this. You need to be registered OEM to access
it.

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?PageID=552846

Scroll down to this question:

Q. What can system builders offer their customers as a "legalization
solution" for Windows desktop operating systems?

 

[Leythos]

That's because it's not there. I was told on a couple of occasions by
Microsoft reps that this would be acceptable.

I understood that the first time you wrote it, but without validation by
MS I can't use that to help people. I do appreciate knowing, and will
check with them, but I can just go on the word on a person posting in
Usenet.

 

[Kerry Brown]

I understood that the first time you wrote it, but without validation
by MS I can't use that to help people. I do appreciate knowing, and
will check with them, but I can just go on the word on a person
posting in Usenet.

Did you get the link I posted in the next message?

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?PageID=552846

Scroll down to this question:

Q. What can system builders offer their customers as a "legalization
solution" for Windows desktop operating systems?

 

[Leythos]

Did you get the link I posted in the next message?

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?PageID=552846

Scroll down to this question:

Q. What can system builders offer their customers as a "legalization
solution" for Windows desktop operating systems?

As I thought, you can't just sell them the OEM software COA/Media, you
have to install it on their PC and then provide them the
COA/Media/Manuals:

Q. What can system builders offer their customers as a "legalization
solution" for Windows desktop operating systems?
A. Microsoft recognizes that end users sometimes acquire non-genuine
Windows operating systems on their PCs and may wish to "get legal" by
obtaining genuine software.

To obtain genuine Window software, end users may

* Return to their reseller to resolve the issue;
* Go to the Windows Genuine Advantage web site at
http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/, run the validation wizard, and
purchase a download of genuine Windows software;
* Acquire a retail ("full packaged product" or "FPP") version of
genuine Window software from a reseller; or
* Have a system builder install an OEM system builder Windows
operating system on their PCs.

System builders may install individual OEM system builder Windows
software licenses on computer systems for end users that are using
previously installed counterfeit, pirated, or otherwise illegal or
unlicensed copies of Windows XP operating systems ("legalization
scenarios").

In these legalization scenarios, the system builder may install the OEM
system builder Windows operating system on the end user?s computer
system using the Windows software media included in the OEM system
builder package.

WARNING: OEM system builder Windows operating system software is
designed for pre-installation on a new PC. Therefore, it is important to
back up your customer?s hard drive data, settings and applications
before installing the operating system software. Failure to back up
before installing the operating system software may result in loss of
data.

The system builder must:

* Leave the Windows software media and manual with the end user;
* Attach the Certificate of Authenticity (COA) label that comes with
the Windows operating system license to the outside of the end user?s
computer system cases in an easily accessible location; and
* Provide end-user support on terms at least as favorable as the
terms under which the system builder provides end-user support for any
fully assembled computer system.

In addition, the system builder must inform the end user that activation
of the Windows operating system is required in order to be authorized to
receive support, updates, supplements, add-on components, or Internet-
based services components for Windows operating systems that we may
otherwise make available to others (collectively, "support and
updates"). If the end user elects not to have a Windows operating
systems installed and instead continues to run non-genuine Windows
operating systems, the end user will not be authorized to receive
support and updates for any computer systems on which the end user
continues to use any non-genuine operating systems.

After the COA label has been attached, the copy of the Windows operating
system will be deemed to have been acquired in a manner authorized by
Microsoft. The end user will be subject to the terms of the end-user
license agreement (EULA).