OEM Licencing

[Anonymous]

Hi. I have a customer who purchased three new laptops with Windows Vista
Home Premium. I build systems and was asked if I could put Windows Vista
Ultimate on the new laptops. Reading the OEM license, it appears I actually
have to sell the system in order to classify it as an OEM install. Would
this be correct? Several of my wholesalers are selling OEM versions and
telling me that installing an OEM version on a new machine would be within
the licensing agreement. Am I forced into a "upgrade" or "retail" version
for this customer?

The licensing appears to allow me to install the OEM version in one section,
but then goes on to say it must be "pre-installed" before the computer is
sold. If pre-installation is the requirement I don't see how an OEM version
could be installed on a customer purchased PC unless it was re-furbished or
purchased from the customer and then "re-sold" to the customer.

Help clearing up this detail is appreciated.

 

[VanguardLH]

Hi. I have a customer who purchased three new laptops with Windows Vista
Home Premium. I build systems and was asked if I could put Windows Vista
Ultimate on the new laptops. Reading the OEM license, it appears I actually
have to sell the system in order to classify it as an OEM install. Would
this be correct? Several of my wholesalers are selling OEM versions and
telling me that installing an OEM version on a new machine would be within
the licensing agreement. Am I forced into a "upgrade" or "retail" version
for this customer?

The licensing appears to allow me to install the OEM version in one section,
but then goes on to say it must be "pre-installed" before the computer is
sold. If pre-installation is the requirement I don't see how an OEM version
could be installed on a customer purchased PC unless it was re-furbished or
purchased from the customer and then "re-sold" to the customer.

Help clearing up this detail is appreciated.

Read the EULA. From what I've read in those that I've seen, all you
need to do is to provide "qualifying hardware". I'm not sure this
hardware even needs to be installed but to be safe it should be usable
for the intended host (i.e., don't include an archaic 8" Pelican floppy
drive to simply empty out your trash heap of old unusable parts). It
could be a SATA hard drive cable (cost is probably $2). I just has to
be hardware that [could] install in the target host. Check around to
see what parts you could get for the laptops that could be used in them
but is very cheap. Whether the user employs the hardware is not your
concern.

Take a look at a lot of eBay auctions. eBay enforces the Microsoft
EULAs and will terminate anyone's account that violates them, and will
refund without permission by the seller any item purchased by a buyer
where the buyer shows the sale was invalid for an OEM sale. Some are
really pushing the envelope by dumping unusable trash hardware on the
buyer as the qualifying hardware, like pieces of a non-working laptop
(and charging a high shipping charge for the extra weight).

OEM versions do *not* need to be sold with a complete host. OEM
versions can be sold with only some accompanying qualifying hardware
(i.e., some part or component of the host). Say I'm a customer that
purchases an OEM version that includes a SATA hard drive cable. I
install the OEM version. Gee, did I actually install the SATA cable in
my host to replace the existing SATA cable already in there? Prove I
didn't. I'd end up just swapping the same-function cable so I might
swap but I might not.

 

[peter]

No matter what you sell with the OEM Vista the problem is that OEM,s are
installed on an
empty(no previous OS) harddrive.
you need to look at which costs less an OEM or an "upgrade" version.
If you use an OEM his HD will need to be formatted or at least the present
version of Vista Home premium destroyed
before you can install Vista Ultimate OEM and most likely all hardware
drivers would need to be reinstalled
By using an "upgrade" version nothing needs to be removed ,no hardware
drivers need to be reinstalled.
I would bet that if your charging by the hour the "upgrade" would cost less
for him and be less work for you.

peter

 

[norm]

Hi. I have a customer who purchased three new laptops with Windows Vista
Home Premium. I build systems and was asked if I could put Windows Vista
Ultimate on the new laptops. Reading the OEM license, it appears I actually
have to sell the system in order to classify it as an OEM install. Would
this be correct? Several of my wholesalers are selling OEM versions and
telling me that installing an OEM version on a new machine would be within
the licensing agreement. Am I forced into a "upgrade" or "retail" version
for this customer?

The licensing appears to allow me to install the OEM version in one section,
but then goes on to say it must be "pre-installed" before the computer is
sold. If pre-installation is the requirement I don't see how an OEM version
could be installed on a customer purchased PC unless it was re-furbished or
purchased from the customer and then "re-sold" to the customer.

Help clearing up this detail is appreciated.

Read the EULA. From what I've read in those that I've seen, all you
need to do is to provide "qualifying hardware". I'm not sure this
hardware even needs to be installed but to be safe it should be usable
for the intended host (i.e., don't include an archaic 8" Pelican floppy
drive to simply empty out your trash heap of old unusable parts). It
could be a SATA hard drive cable (cost is probably $2). I just has to
be hardware that [could] install in the target host. Check around to
see what parts you could get for the laptops that could be used in them
but is very cheap. Whether the user employs the hardware is not your
concern.

Take a look at a lot of eBay auctions. eBay enforces the Microsoft
EULAs and will terminate anyone's account that violates them, and will
refund without permission by the seller any item purchased by a buyer
where the buyer shows the sale was invalid for an OEM sale. Some are
really pushing the envelope by dumping unusable trash hardware on the
buyer as the qualifying hardware, like pieces of a non-working laptop
(and charging a high shipping charge for the extra weight).

OEM versions do *not* need to be sold with a complete host. OEM
versions can be sold with only some accompanying qualifying hardware
(i.e., some part or component of the host). Say I'm a customer that
purchases an OEM version that includes a SATA hard drive cable. I
install the OEM version. Gee, did I actually install the SATA cable in
my host to replace the existing SATA cable already in there? Prove I
didn't. I'd end up just swapping the same-function cable so I might
swap but I might not.

Where does the vista eula state anything about a sale requiring hardware?

 

[VanguardLH]

Hi. I have a customer who purchased three new laptops with Windows Vista
Home Premium. I build systems and was asked if I could put Windows Vista
Ultimate on the new laptops. Reading the OEM license, it appears I actually
have to sell the system in order to classify it as an OEM install. Would
this be correct? Several of my wholesalers are selling OEM versions and
telling me that installing an OEM version on a new machine would be within
the licensing agreement. Am I forced into a "upgrade" or "retail" version
for this customer?

The licensing appears to allow me to install the OEM version in one section,
but then goes on to say it must be "pre-installed" before the computer is
sold. If pre-installation is the requirement I don't see how an OEM version
could be installed on a customer purchased PC unless it was re-furbished or
purchased from the customer and then "re-sold" to the customer.

Help clearing up this detail is appreciated.

Read the EULA. From what I've read in those that I've seen, all you
need to do is to provide "qualifying hardware". I'm not sure this
hardware even needs to be installed but to be safe it should be usable
for the intended host (i.e., don't include an archaic 8" Pelican floppy
drive to simply empty out your trash heap of old unusable parts). It
could be a SATA hard drive cable (cost is probably $2). I just has to
be hardware that [could] install in the target host. Check around to
see what parts you could get for the laptops that could be used in them
but is very cheap. Whether the user employs the hardware is not your
concern.

Take a look at a lot of eBay auctions. eBay enforces the Microsoft
EULAs and will terminate anyone's account that violates them, and will
refund without permission by the seller any item purchased by a buyer
where the buyer shows the sale was invalid for an OEM sale. Some are
really pushing the envelope by dumping unusable trash hardware on the
buyer as the qualifying hardware, like pieces of a non-working laptop
(and charging a high shipping charge for the extra weight).

OEM versions do *not* need to be sold with a complete host. OEM
versions can be sold with only some accompanying qualifying hardware
(i.e., some part or component of the host). Say I'm a customer that
purchases an OEM version that includes a SATA hard drive cable. I
install the OEM version. Gee, did I actually install the SATA cable in
my host to replace the existing SATA cable already in there? Prove I
didn't. I'd end up just swapping the same-function cable so I might
swap but I might not.

Where does the vista eula state anything about a sale requiring hardware?

Um, what did I start with? "Read the EULA". I don't have Vista so I
don't have a copy of the EULA. Presumably the OP can read.

http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/

"OEM" is not a selection. Does that mean there are no OEM versions of
Vista? No, just that Microsoft doesn't proffer a copy of a EULA for
one. I did find at Newegg for an OEM version of Vista Ultimate, "Use of
this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the
Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for
pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System
Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user
support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another
computer once it is installed." Where, there's your hardware.

At http://apcmag.com/tough_new_rules_on_vista_oem.htm, they say the
Vista OEM EULA says, "OEM versions of Windows Vista must be distributed
to end-users with a fully assembled computer system and must be
pre-installed." So it looks like the OP is screwed and can't provide an
OEM version of Vista to his customer but needs to get an upgrade
version.

Twas bad enough to have to bend over and get reamed with a baseball bat.
Microsoft upped the punishment and added do-not-backup spikes to the
bat.

 

[norm]

Anonymous wrote:

Hi. I have a customer who purchased three new laptops with Windows Vista
Home Premium. I build systems and was asked if I could put Windows Vista
Ultimate on the new laptops. Reading the OEM license, it appears I actually
have to sell the system in order to classify it as an OEM install. Would
this be correct? Several of my wholesalers are selling OEM versions and
telling me that installing an OEM version on a new machine would be within
the licensing agreement. Am I forced into a "upgrade" or "retail" version
for this customer?

The licensing appears to allow me to install the OEM version in one section,
but then goes on to say it must be "pre-installed" before the computer is
sold. If pre-installation is the requirement I don't see how an OEM version
could be installed on a customer purchased PC unless it was re-furbished or
purchased from the customer and then "re-sold" to the customer.

Help clearing up this detail is appreciated.
Read the EULA. From what I've read in those that I've seen, all you
need to do is to provide "qualifying hardware". I'm not sure this
hardware even needs to be installed but to be safe it should be usable
for the intended host (i.e., don't include an archaic 8" Pelican floppy
drive to simply empty out your trash heap of old unusable parts). It
could be a SATA hard drive cable (cost is probably $2). I just has to
be hardware that [could] install in the target host. Check around to
see what parts you could get for the laptops that could be used in them
but is very cheap. Whether the user employs the hardware is not your
concern.

Take a look at a lot of eBay auctions. eBay enforces the Microsoft
EULAs and will terminate anyone's account that violates them, and will
refund without permission by the seller any item purchased by a buyer
where the buyer shows the sale was invalid for an OEM sale. Some are
really pushing the envelope by dumping unusable trash hardware on the
buyer as the qualifying hardware, like pieces of a non-working laptop
(and charging a high shipping charge for the extra weight).

OEM versions do *not* need to be sold with a complete host. OEM
versions can be sold with only some accompanying qualifying hardware
(i.e., some part or component of the host). Say I'm a customer that
purchases an OEM version that includes a SATA hard drive cable. I
install the OEM version. Gee, did I actually install the SATA cable in
my host to replace the existing SATA cable already in there? Prove I
didn't. I'd end up just swapping the same-function cable so I might
swap but I might not.

Where does the vista eula state anything about a sale requiring hardware?

Um, what did I start with? "Read the EULA". I don't have Vista so I
don't have a copy of the EULA. Presumably the OP can read.

http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/

"OEM" is not a selection. Does that mean there are no OEM versions of
Vista? No, just that Microsoft doesn't proffer a copy of a EULA for
one. I did find at Newegg for an OEM version of Vista Ultimate, "Use of
this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the
Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for
pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System
Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user
support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another
computer once it is installed." Where, there's your hardware.

My only point about this oem issue is that every time it comes up, one
of the first pieces of advice given is to "read the eula". There is
nothing in the eula addressing the issue. Since you mentioned newegg,
there is nothing at the newegg site suggesting that if I purchase an oem
copy of vista that I also need to purchase a piece of hardware with it.
If there is such a provision, it needs to be stated, then ms need to
enforce that the seller abide by it. And the disclaimer does not bind
newegg to anything in terms of the sale by them of the eom copy.

 

[VanguardLH]

VanguardLH wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Hi. I have a customer who purchased three new laptops with Windows Vista
Home Premium. I build systems and was asked if I could put Windows Vista
Ultimate on the new laptops. Reading the OEM license, it appears I actually
have to sell the system in order to classify it as an OEM install. Would
this be correct? Several of my wholesalers are selling OEM versions and
telling me that installing an OEM version on a new machine would be within
the licensing agreement. Am I forced into a "upgrade" or "retail" version
for this customer?

The licensing appears to allow me to install the OEM version in one section,
but then goes on to say it must be "pre-installed" before the computer is
sold. If pre-installation is the requirement I don't see how an OEM version
could be installed on a customer purchased PC unless it was re-furbished or
purchased from the customer and then "re-sold" to the customer.

Help clearing up this detail is appreciated.
Read the EULA. From what I've read in those that I've seen, all you
need to do is to provide "qualifying hardware". I'm not sure this
hardware even needs to be installed but to be safe it should be usable
for the intended host (i.e., don't include an archaic 8" Pelican floppy
drive to simply empty out your trash heap of old unusable parts). It
could be a SATA hard drive cable (cost is probably $2). I just has to
be hardware that [could] install in the target host. Check around to
see what parts you could get for the laptops that could be used in them
but is very cheap. Whether the user employs the hardware is not your
concern.

Take a look at a lot of eBay auctions. eBay enforces the Microsoft
EULAs and will terminate anyone's account that violates them, and will
refund without permission by the seller any item purchased by a buyer
where the buyer shows the sale was invalid for an OEM sale. Some are
really pushing the envelope by dumping unusable trash hardware on the
buyer as the qualifying hardware, like pieces of a non-working laptop
(and charging a high shipping charge for the extra weight).

OEM versions do *not* need to be sold with a complete host. OEM
versions can be sold with only some accompanying qualifying hardware
(i.e., some part or component of the host). Say I'm a customer that
purchases an OEM version that includes a SATA hard drive cable. I
install the OEM version. Gee, did I actually install the SATA cable in
my host to replace the existing SATA cable already in there? Prove I
didn't. I'd end up just swapping the same-function cable so I might
swap but I might not.
Where does the vista eula state anything about a sale requiring hardware?

Um, what did I start with? "Read the EULA". I don't have Vista so I
don't have a copy of the EULA. Presumably the OP can read.

http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/

"OEM" is not a selection. Does that mean there are no OEM versions of
Vista? No, just that Microsoft doesn't proffer a copy of a EULA for
one. I did find at Newegg for an OEM version of Vista Ultimate, "Use of
this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the
Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for
pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System
Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user
support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another
computer once it is installed." Where, there's your hardware.

My only point about this oem issue is that every time it comes up, one
of the first pieces of advice given is to "read the eula". There is
nothing in the eula addressing the issue. Since you mentioned newegg,
there is nothing at the newegg site suggesting that if I purchase an oem
copy of vista that I also need to purchase a piece of hardware with it.
If there is such a provision, it needs to be stated, then ms need to
enforce that the seller abide by it. And the disclaimer does not bind
newegg to anything in terms of the sale by them of the eom copy.

And why I mentioned what Newegg does say about the system builder
license. Of course, that doesn't stop one from being a system builder
for one's self. As you say, you don't have to buy hardware to get OEM
Vista because you are getting a system builder license. However, once
you choose to actually deploy that license of OEM Vista then it has to
be on a host and not simply distributed with a hardware component of a
host.

For the OP, and if they wanted to get picky in providing proof that they
complied with the system builder license, he could have the customer
sell him that customer's host, give the customer an IOU, install OEM
Vista Ultimate on what is now the OP's property, and then sell the host
back to the customer at a higher price that included the value of the
IOU plus the cost of the OEM Vista Ultimate license plus his labor for
doing the install. The customer simply exchanges the IOU with the extra
monies for the OEM Vista Ultimate license and his labor. The customer
now has been delivered a prebuilt host with OEM Vista preinstalled which
meets the requirements of the OEM Vista license. There is the issue of
what happens to the OEM Vista Home license during this transfer that was
originally on the host.

 

[norm]

norm wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Hi. I have a customer who purchased three new laptops with Windows Vista
Home Premium. I build systems and was asked if I could put Windows Vista
Ultimate on the new laptops. Reading the OEM license, it appears I actually
have to sell the system in order to classify it as an OEM install. Would
this be correct? Several of my wholesalers are selling OEM versions and
telling me that installing an OEM version on a new machine would be within
the licensing agreement. Am I forced into a "upgrade" or "retail" version
for this customer?

The licensing appears to allow me to install the OEM version in one section,
but then goes on to say it must be "pre-installed" before the computer is
sold. If pre-installation is the requirement I don't see how an OEM version
could be installed on a customer purchased PC unless it was re-furbished or
purchased from the customer and then "re-sold" to the customer.

Help clearing up this detail is appreciated.
Read the EULA. From what I've read in those that I've seen, all you
need to do is to provide "qualifying hardware". I'm not sure this
hardware even needs to be installed but to be safe it should be usable
for the intended host (i.e., don't include an archaic 8" Pelican floppy
drive to simply empty out your trash heap of old unusable parts). It
could be a SATA hard drive cable (cost is probably $2). I just has to
be hardware that [could] install in the target host. Check around to
see what parts you could get for the laptops that could be used in them
but is very cheap. Whether the user employs the hardware is not your
concern.

Take a look at a lot of eBay auctions. eBay enforces the Microsoft
EULAs and will terminate anyone's account that violates them, and will
refund without permission by the seller any item purchased by a buyer
where the buyer shows the sale was invalid for an OEM sale. Some are
really pushing the envelope by dumping unusable trash hardware on the
buyer as the qualifying hardware, like pieces of a non-working laptop
(and charging a high shipping charge for the extra weight).

OEM versions do *not* need to be sold with a complete host. OEM
versions can be sold with only some accompanying qualifying hardware
(i.e., some part or component of the host). Say I'm a customer that
purchases an OEM version that includes a SATA hard drive cable. I
install the OEM version. Gee, did I actually install the SATA cable in
my host to replace the existing SATA cable already in there? Prove I
didn't. I'd end up just swapping the same-function cable so I might
swap but I might not.
Where does the vista eula state anything about a sale requiring hardware?
Um, what did I start with? "Read the EULA". I don't have Vista so I
don't have a copy of the EULA. Presumably the OP can read.

http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/

"OEM" is not a selection. Does that mean there are no OEM versions of
Vista? No, just that Microsoft doesn't proffer a copy of a EULA for
one. I did find at Newegg for an OEM version of Vista Ultimate, "Use of
this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the
Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for
pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System
Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user
support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another
computer once it is installed." Where, there's your hardware.

My only point about this oem issue is that every time it comes up, one
of the first pieces of advice given is to "read the eula". There is
nothing in the eula addressing the issue. Since you mentioned newegg,
there is nothing at the newegg site suggesting that if I purchase an oem
copy of vista that I also need to purchase a piece of hardware with it.
If there is such a provision, it needs to be stated, then ms need to
enforce that the seller abide by it. And the disclaimer does not bind
newegg to anything in terms of the sale by them of the eom copy.

And why I mentioned what Newegg does say about the system builder
license. Of course, that doesn't stop one from being a system builder
for one's self. As you say, you don't have to buy hardware to get OEM
Vista because you are getting a system builder license. However, once
you choose to actually deploy that license of OEM Vista then it has to
be on a host and not simply distributed with a hardware component of a
host.

For the OP, and if they wanted to get picky in providing proof that they
complied with the system builder license, he could have the customer
sell him that customer's host, give the customer an IOU, install OEM
Vista Ultimate on what is now the OP's property, and then sell the host
back to the customer at a higher price that included the value of the
IOU plus the cost of the OEM Vista Ultimate license plus his labor for
doing the install. The customer simply exchanges the IOU with the extra
monies for the OEM Vista Ultimate license and his labor. The customer
now has been delivered a prebuilt host with OEM Vista preinstalled which
meets the requirements of the OEM Vista license. There is the issue of
what happens to the OEM Vista Home license during this transfer that was
originally on the host.

We have segued from your original advice to read the eula which did not
address the op's original question to a whole different subject, which
might be more in line with what the op asked. However, my first and only
point was that your original statement about reading the eula did not
address the issue at hand. I don't care to enter the minefield of system
builder requirements, rules and regulations.

 

[Anonymous]

The posts have answered my question. From a legal point of view, Vista
Ultimate OEM can only be pre-installed on new or refurbished hardware and
then re-sold as a system builder. Someone noted purchasing the computers,
issuing an IOU, and then selling back the laptop as a solution. This is a
solution I had considered myself. I did take note of the "backup" comment
and would like to know more about the backup problem.

The system builders license appears to allow OEM versions for "refurbished"
computers. Could one consider a new operating system on a brand new PC a
refurb? It appears that Microsoft system builders license is cutting out
small businesses from preforming OEM installs on customers newly purchased
discounted hardware unless they are sold originally by the small business
itself.

I do understand that it is perfectly legal to purchase discounted hardware
myself and install OEM versions on them for re-sale according to the system
builders license. I was out of town and the customer would not wait.

At this time, I'm recommending the customer do a "upgrade" rather than dance
around the ethics and intent of the OEM license issue. This of course IMHO
creates all types of issues when the system degrades and needs to be
refreshed. The process involves installing the original system rescue
cd-roms (provided the hardware has not been upgraded and the system rescue
refuses to run), upgrading again to Vista, applying the SP, etc.

I wish Microsoft would find a better solution for small business owners. A
verification of a customer sales receipt, copy of the original COA (scan the
side of the computer if necessary), and the opportunity to buy a "base"
version of Vista Ultimate once information has been registered and verified.
This would require both COA stickers remain with the system. I'd prefer to
see a "one sticker price" solution. OEM's discounts should only be offered
through OEM channels by registered OEM shops. While this might create a OEM
tracking problem with MS, it puts the responsibility squarely on the OEM, not
on a retailer, such as NewEgg and resolves licensing and pricing confusion to
the end user. It's hard for a honest shop to compete against customers and
shops who dance around licensing issues using NewEgg or other retail
discounters for licenses.

In truth, sadly, it's been my observation that EULA are only enforced when
it's convenient and profitable, either to a disgruntled employee or for media
press purposes. In rural America, piracy in small businesses is rampant. I
make a concentrated effort to correct it and won't even work with a company
that won't comply once I'm aware of the issue. In the end, it always comes
down to dollars, cents and upgrade dollars for these customers. It's for
this reason I'm a OSS shop internally and promote it externally.