Norton Internet Security 2009 - Update Causes Unbootable Systems

[Jeff]

Hi,

I am not here to bash Symantec. I am here to resolve a problem.

Twice in the last 3 weeks I have ended up with computers which will not boot
into Windows XP normally. One system is a Gateway Solo 9550 XL notebook. The
other is a Compaq X09 gaming system.

In both instances I processed Norton Internet Security 2009 updates and was
asked to restart Win XP.

The loading of Win XP stops at the splash screen with the scroll bar
continuing to scroll round and around.

The only way out of the scroll screen is a hard reset. I can select Windows
Safe mode to get into that mode; but, I cannot load Windows normally. (I
probably should have selected the last know good command the first time I
restarted Win XP; but, I didn't.)

I have even gone so far as to install a new hard disk in the notebook
computer and restore my latest backup. The backup works fine. As soon as I
run the NIS update and restart the system I cannot start Windows.

I have spent several weeks hoping to solve this problem. I even suspected
that there was a problem with the notebook computer that I purchased a brand
new HP Elite notebook computer to replace this older Gateway. Now I discover
that the problem may not be hardware related.

I am pretty upset to say the least.

I intend to reformat the new hard drive that I installed in the Solo 9550,
restore my backup, and make sure the system functions. I will then run the
NIS update again to prove, or disprove what I have posted.

Update: I removed the hard drive from the notebook computer. I attached it
to hardware intended for backing up to a 2-1/2" drive. I plugged the drive
into the USB 2.0 port of another Win XP system. (The first one that had this
problem render unbootable; but, subsequently I installed new hard drives and
did a restore.)

As soon as I plugged the hard drive into the remote system it began clicking
rythmically ... as if defective. The drive wasn't recognized. Although the
drive wasn't recognized in Explorer, it was listed in the list of devices I
could safely remove, so I did. I rebooted the remote system. Now Win XP will
not load on this system.

What is going on? What could happen to the hard drive during the Norton
Update that would cause it to corrupt another system when connected? Is there
another explanation?

The main reason for this post is to see if others have experienced similar
problems. I have also posted on the Symantec forum; but, I don't always feel
comfortable with the replies that I get on their forum. I respect the fact
that they are challenged by the bugs created by others; but, I believe I
spend more time trying to get their software to work with my systems, than I
do with any other single software package. Sometimes I think I'd rather deal
with the malware and other viruses.

Anyone else have problems?

Thanks

Jeff

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

I intend to reformat the new hard drive that I installed in the Solo 9550,

restore my backup, and make sure the system functions. I will then run the
NIS update again to prove, or disprove what I have posted.

You're going to reinstall NIS? You're a masochist!

Norton Community Forums
http://community.norton.com/

Symantec Support (you paid for it!)
http://www.symantec.com/support/index.jsp

 

[Jeff]

You're going to reinstall NIS? You're a masochist!

I know, I know.....

This is cut from a message that I received on their forum late this afternoon:

"Thanks for bringing this to our attention; this appears to be a Bug which
will need to be Fixed for other N.I.S. 2009 users, should anyone else be
having this issue, but not aware of this great Forum."

Bug is an understatement.

I now have two computers that are inoperable. As I explained as an update to
my earlier message here, I was going to use a second Win XP machine to format
the notebook hard drive and then reload the backup.

Now I have two computers that are hosed.

I don't want to be too vocal for fear I did someting to cause this problem.
I just don't know what it would be. The common denominator is the updating of
the Norton program data, followed by a reboot, and then a splash screen that
won't go away.

I doubt at this point that I will be updated NIS 2009 if I can get the two
affected computers running again.

If this is a "bug" that Symantec knows about, I would sure like to know why
damages can't be filed. I learned a long time ago not to get too worked up
about things I can't control.

Thanks PA Bear.

Jeff

 

[sandy58]

I know, I know.....

This is cut from a message that I received on their forum late this afternoon:

"Thanks for bringing this to our attention; this appears to be a Bug which
will need to be Fixed for other N.I.S. 2009 users, should anyone else be
having this issue, but not aware of this great Forum."

Bug is an understatement.

I now have two computers that are inoperable. As I explained as an updateto
my earlier message here, I was going to use a second Win XP machine to format
the notebook hard drive and then reload the backup.

Now I have two computers that are hosed.

I don't want to be too vocal for fear I did someting to cause this problem.
I just don't know what it would be. The common denominator is the updating of
the Norton program data, followed by a reboot, and then a splash screen that
won't go away.

I doubt at this point that I will be updated NIS 2009 if I can get the two
affected computers running again.

If this is a "bug" that Symantec knows about, I would sure like to know why
damages can't be filed. I learned a long time ago not to get too worked up
about things I can't control.

Thanks PA Bear.

Jeff

This could help, Jeff.
http://service1.symantec.com/Support/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039

 

[Ǝиçεl]

Hello Jeff,

Additional info: Doesn't hurt to try Sandy's recommendation first.

Then try MSE
<http://lmgtfy.com/?q=microsoft+security+essentials>

Ǝиçεl
◕‿◕
-=-

 

[Jeff]

Hi Again,

I believe the problem is solved. (At least both of the down computers are
now operating... albeit without security protection at the moment.)

And, yes, now I am bashing Symantec.

For details of my problem, and the steps that proved what caused the
problems, please see the following, which is a copy of what I posted on the
Symantec forum:

-----------------------------------------
"Hi Again,

I experimented a little with the notebook computer, thinking that it may not
be NIS updates that caused the problem.

I started Win XP in Safe Mode. I went into Add/Remove Programs and
uninstalled MS IE 8 and attempted to restart Windows normally. The splash
screen hung and continued the action of the scroll bar.

I did a hard reboot, and went back to Safe Mode. I then uninstalled Google
Toolbar. (Another recently installed program.) (No system restart at this
time.) I then uninstalled NIS 2009. I chose the Custom Uninstall option. At
the conclusion of the uninstall I was asked to restart Windows, which I did.

I attemped to start Windows XP normally on this Gateway notebook computer.
This time it worked. Win XP was now functioning.

I decided to uninstall only NIS 2009 on the desktop system that was down. I
started Windows XP in Safe Mode (because I could not start it normally). I
went to Add/Remove Programs and uninstalled only NIS 2009. Again, I chose the
Custom Uninstall option. I was asked to restart Windows, which I did.

I attempted to start Win XP normally on this Compaq desktop computer. This
time it worked... XP is functioning.

The conclusion that I have drawn is that NIS' update was the sole reason for
this problem. Maybe it's because NIS detected something that it's designed to
detect. I don't know why NIS causes Win XP to fail when starting normally...
all I know is that the following has occured during the last 3 weeks.

1. The notebook computer that I use in another area of the house was
rendered inoperable. I spent a great deal of time and effort on my own, and
on forums online attempting to solve the problem. In the end, the computer
hardware became suspect, and I quit trying to diagnose software issues.
(Specifically, the system would not always boot to the CD even though BIOS
was configured in that way.)

2. I purchased a new HP computer because of work that I had bid on an out of
town project. (Just under $2,000.)

3. After experiencing similar issues with the desktop system, I again began
to question software. The one common thread between the two systems was that
both system failed to start normally after updating several programs (Win XP,
IE, and NIS 2009).

4. I had purchased a new 2-1/2" hard drive that I installed in the notebook
computer and to which the image was restored from a fairly recent backup.
After running the NIS update yesterday, this system was unable to start Win
XP normally. This is what really raised my suspicions about NIS.

Now both of the systems which were down yesterday are running normally...
without Norton Internet Security.

I am still angry at Symantec, even as I have both of these systems running.
The $2,000 was essentially a waste. I have spent so much time and energy on
this problem... Maybe I should have been smarter, or done something
different; but, honestly, the only thing I did was install updates from one
of the largest security software companies in the world. And once I did, I
could no longer use my systems.

So... I would like for someone to explain to me why I should trust
Symantec/NIS 2010 any more than I did 2009.

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that I am the only one running
Windows XP that has had this type of problem. I am even more surprised to
think that Symantec didn't work through these kinds of bugs before pushing
their updates into the public domain. Sarcastically speaking, I think
Symantec owes me a lot more than free updates after all that I have gone
through with this whole experience. Had it just been one system, I could
understand a fluke; but, two independent systems produced by different
manufacturers using different hardware platforms.... There is no excuse for
this.

I know you guys post on this forum to help others who have problems. This
outrage isn't directed at you. I appreciate your help. I do, however, believe
Symantec is liable for something because of their negligence (in spite of all
the disclaimers we, as the licensing public, must agree to before using
software).

Is it just me, or is a real problem?

Jeff
-----------------------------------------

I don't know if anything will become of this; but, I sure hope other users
are smarter than I was.

I will also be starting my research into other software suites (including
research into MS') very soon.

Thanks for your help.

Jeff

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Your preachin' to the choir here.

 

[Andy]

why do you think its not true do youre research nortion products have a
history of messing up systems.

 

[Jeff]

Hi,

So.... I am ready to look at options other than Norton. It will take me a
long time to get past the feeling that Symantec is solely responsible for all
of the problems of the last three weeks. I will take responsibility for not
being better at troubleshooting the problems; but, that doesn't make up for
their liablities.

That being said...

Has anyone else used MS Security Essentials? Is anyone using it on a regular
basis?

Are there other program suites that I should be looking at? I ran Kaspersky
on one system a year or so ago; but, I remember there being a lot of options
involved before I could use it without constant tweaking.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

Thanks

Jeff

 

[1PW]

Hi,

So.... I am ready to look at options other than Norton. It will take me a
long time to get past the feeling that Symantec is solely responsible for all
of the problems of the last three weeks. I will take responsibility for not
being better at troubleshooting the problems; but, that doesn't make up for
their liabilities.

Remember Jeff, do not confuse Norton products with Symantec products.
Yes, Symantec owns Norton.

That being said...

Has anyone else used MS Security Essentials? Is anyone using it on a regular
basis?

This isn't exactly the best newsgroup for examining malware/security
issues.

MSE just went into wide release last week. If your computer is
resource starved, you might experience noticeable sluggishness while
it's actively scanning. Some have noted that database updates are not
showing up & are missing for days. The antispyware portion may not be
a world leader unless improvements are forthcoming. The AV portion
might be improved if enough users get more involved.

Are there other program suites that I should be looking at? I ran Kaspersky
on one system a year or so ago; but, I remember there being a lot of options
involved before I could use it without constant tweaking.

IMHO you should never be looking to software suites for a security
solutions. Best in breed is the only way to draw nearer to best all
around security profile. Even overlapping antispyware applications
are still indicated.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

Thanks

Jeff

AV best in breed is Avira AntiVir Personal. MBAM & SAS are leaders of
the pack for antispyware protection. Do you have a NAT router in use?
Do you refrain from using IE? Is your your HOSTS file populated and
frequently updated? Are you using a safer MUA or are you using
Outlook? Have you considered Sandboxing a good browser for better
safety? Have you taken definite steps to start hardening your system?
Are you always logged on as the administrator, or do you use a user
account with administrator privileges?

 

[Jeff]

1PW,

Thanks for your reply.

The answer to most of your questions is no.

I am a one-man-band. I need to be protected, and I want to be smart about
it; but, becoming a real expert in IT security becomes secondary to
concentrating on the parts of my business that are involved in revenue
generation. The only reason I state it in those terms is that I am willing to
make compromises on system performance, and calculated risks on not having
the absolute safest environment. I am the only one accessing the Internet on
a regular basis (once in a while one of my grown kids will be in from out of
town and log on).

As I have found with other technologies, I could spend a lot of time
becoming very knowledgeable now, only to find that in a year or less, there
have been changes that require more research and more time.

Although it's not perfect, suites that do what they are advertised to do,
are valuable to those who can't devote a lot of time to becoming security
experts.

I do appreciate your point of view and knowledge, as I hope you respect mine.

Jeff

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

So.... I am ready to look at options other than Norton. It will take me a
long time to get past the feeling that Symantec is solely responsible for all
of the problems of the last three weeks. I will take responsibility for not
being better at troubleshooting the problems; but, that doesn't make up for
their liablities.

That being said...

Has anyone else used MS Security Essentials? Is anyone using it on a regular
basis?

As far as I'm concerned, the product is too new to have any reliable
opinions on it. It might turn out to be great, but I'm personally not
willing to commit to it yet.

Are there other program suites that I should be looking at? I ran Kaspersky
on one system a year or so ago; but, I remember there being a lot of options
involved before I could use it without constant tweaking.

I think using *any* security suite is a very poor practice. It's far
better to choose each individual piece of software based on its
qualities as compared to the competing products. The company that
makes the best anti-virus program doesn't necessarily also make the
best anti-spyware program, so I recommend staying away from suites
that force you into making such an assumption

In fact, I think the same thing about almost any kind of suite of
software, including an Office suite. I, for example, use WordPerfect
in preference to Microsoft Word, but Excel in preference to Quattro
Pro.

So here are my recommendations on security software:

1. The Windows firewall is fine, and there's no reason to choose a
third-party product.

2. The best anti-virus program is NOD32. If you want a freeware
product instead, get Avast.

3. Because no anti-spyware program is perfect, you should run at least
two. The two best ones are MalwareBytes AntiMalware and
SuperAntiSpyware. They are both available in freeware versions.

 

[Jeff]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your recommendations. It at least gives me a starting point.

I don't disagree with the points you made in your post. The only difficulty
comes in that there are only so many hours in a day. I was drug kicking and
screaming from WordPerfect... I migrated to WordPerfect from Multimate, and I
thought WordPerfect's customer support was unbeatable. I still have an older
version of WordPerfect on one of my systems; but, most of the work I do needs
to go to clients in Word format, so I figured I should just bite the bullet
rather than relying on conversions.

Thanks again for your input. I will look into the products you mentioned.

Jeff

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Hi,

So.... I am ready to look at options other than Norton. It will take me a
long time to get past the feeling that Symantec is solely responsible for all
of the problems of the last three weeks. I will take responsibility for not
being better at troubleshooting the problems; but, that doesn't make up for
their liablities.

That being said...

Has anyone else used MS Security Essentials? Is anyone using it on a regular
basis?

I've testing using it for a few days, now, with no problems. It's been
well reviewed by some:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/first-look-microsoft-security-essentials-impresses.ars

.... and upset other major security companies:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...pplaud-mock-microsoft-security-essentials.ars

Are there other program suites that I should be looking at? I ran Kaspersky
on one system a year or so ago; but, I remember there being a lot of options
involved before I could use it without constant tweaking.

You'll get nearly as many differing opinions as you will responses.

I'll start by saying that I don't think any security "suite" is a
good choice. It'd be better to use smaller, less-resource-draining
stand-alone products.

I had used, and recommended, Norton Antivirus and then Norton
Internet Security, for many years, on Win98, WinNT, Win2K, and WinXP,
all without any significant problems. I had used McAfee prior to that.
But it's been several years since I've been tempted to try McAfee
products. Their quality seemed to take a steep nose-dive after they were
acquired by Network Associates.

However, when my subscription to Symantec's updates for Norton
Internet Security came up for renewal (at a cost substantially higher
than the preceding year's subscription), I decided to try less expensive
solutions. I downloaded and installed the free version of GriSoft's AVG
(http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_dwnl_free.php ). It proved to be easily
installed, easy to use, and quite effective. Additionally, I was
pleasantly surprised to see a small but very noticeable improvement in
my PC's performance, once I'd replaced the Symantec product. Another
free (for personal use) anti-virus product is AVAST! Home Edition
(http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html), which is what I've used
without problems on both WinXP Pro and Vista Business.

For a recent comparison of anti-virus products:

Retrospective / ProActive Test
http://www.av-comparatives.org/



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your recommendations. It at least gives me a starting point.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I don't disagree with the points you made in your post. The only difficulty
comes in that there are only so many hours in a day. I was drug kicking and
screaming from WordPerfect... I migrated to WordPerfect from Multimate, and I
thought WordPerfect's customer support was unbeatable. I still have an older
version of WordPerfect on one of my systems; but, most of the work I do needs
to go to clients in Word format, so I figured I should just bite the bullet
rather than relying on conversions.

That's fine. I wasn't trying to talk you into using WordPerfect. My
point is simply that you should choose each product you use (for
whatever reasons are important to you) and not rely on something just
because it's bundled into a suite with something else you want to use.

 

[Twayne]

Hi, ....
Twice in the last 3 weeks I have ended up with computers which will
not boot into Windows XP normally. One system is a Gateway Solo 9550
XL notebook. The other is a Compaq X09 gaming system.

In both instances I processed Norton Internet Security 2009 updates
and was asked to restart Win XP.

The loading of Win XP stops at the splash screen with the scroll bar
continuing to scroll round and around.
....


Anyone else have problems?

Thanks

Jeff

For whatever the reasons may be I've had no problems with NIS 2009 or
anything else "2009" from (now) Symantec/Norton.
Your TS'ing would indeed indicate it is most likely Norton at the
cause, unless something still unknown were at work.
Compaq and a gaming machine wouldn't surprise me no matter what
happened on them though, so the combination is a real wart on the ass of
progress. Gaming machines are so tweaked and limited hardly anything
else can work, and Compaq has its plethora of shells and ohter little
"helpers" are real beasts to turn into straight XP machines. But it
doesn't seem like the Gateway should have any problems unless it's been
similarly tweaked.

Just for grins, have you tried any other similar programs to see if
the same things happned? Have y ou been able to tell which module of
NIS causes the problem? It'd be nice to know. I looked, not real hard,
but didn't come up with anything on this problem so this is all I really
have to say, which is of zero help, I know, but I see you are up and
running now so it's not all bad.

As for any sort of compensation, you might's well forget that as a
complete waste of time. The EULAs all pretty much take care of that and
by installing you held them free of any encumbrances.

HTH,

Twayne`